? for Dragon1952 - Would a shmups magazine be possible?

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:03 pm

This question is for the famous shmupper, Dragon1952:

My question is this, Would it be possible to create and sell such a niche shmup filled content magazine worthy of the Shmups name?

With your expertise in the video game/arcade game journalism field and having co-founded the still on-going Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine, I'd like to hear what you'd have to say about starting up a brand new magazine format. Or would it be too narrow of a genre (that's already a very specialized narrow niche of the arcade/console gaming spectrum)?

I've seen some very short lived speciality video game magazines such as "The Atarian" fizzle after just a three issue debut back in the late 1980's...failure is a possibility for such start-up magazines due to many factors and the like. ^_~

I was hoping for a multi-page spread about the Taito G-Card game of Psyvariar Medium Unit in Gamefan magazine but it didn't happen. After having the rare opportunity to try it out twice at two different Japanese game centers back in early 2000, I was sold on Psy-MU with it's rock-solid gameplay and legendary BGM tunes. Gamefan, back in 2000, was really the only American independent gaming magazine to cover the world of arcade shmup titles. Other gaming magazines such as EGM or Gamepro wouldn't even touch arcade shmup titles with a 10 foot pole (even if they wanted to)... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

themachinist · Post by **themachinist** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:06 pm

SQ - shmupper's quarterly

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:12 pm

So you think a quarterly magazine format would do well? Keep in mind that this would be out every three months or so...

Aren't there any speciality magazines that cover nothing but the shmup world in Japan? Surely, there would be such a magazine like that, right?

worstplayer · Post by **worstplayer** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:17 pm

With no more than 2 or so new shmups a year i guess after few issues there wouldn't be much to write about (just look at this forum).

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:24 pm

Yeah, you're right about the "slow as molasses" releases about having one or two arcade shmup titles making their big debut at the held-twice-a-year AOU shows...

At least Cave is committed to making arcade shmup titles for the foreseeable future. It's when they do make their final call on the very last arcade shmup PCB project, will that be a sad & bittersweet day for shmuppers the world over...

This upcoming Dodonpachi V PCB should be shaping up to be a good shmup title...let's find out at this year's winter AOU 2008 show, shall we? ^_~

themachinist · Post by **themachinist** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:46 pm

PC Engine Fan X! wrote:So you think a quarterly magazine format would do well? Keep in mind that this would be out every three months or so...

PC Engine Fan X! wrote:Yeah, you're right about the "slow as molasses"

Even quarterly is probably too many issues. It'd prob have to be more of a "going over" of older shmups with an occasional thing about a new shmup coming out

. It'd be like an archiving of shmups forum in paper form, haha ....
not sure what they do in jpnland

D · Post by D » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:05 pm

worstplayer wrote:(just look at this forum).

You could write a monthly magazine with all the news/tips/stuff that's discussed on this forum every month. With not everything being new, it could feature so much stuff. Or how about somebody making a weekly update thread to list al the new noteworthy news/tips, etc.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:03 pm

It'd be fun, but sounds like a completely infeasible idea. You'd sell, what, 500 copies each time? There are very few ways to play arcade shooters in the US and console shooters in Japan come 2-3 times a year and the best ones sell only ~10k copies. Not only that, but mags have been doing all-time worsts recently, with pretty much every minor publisher folding. Not enough to go on from any viewpoint unfortunately.

crithit5000 · Post by **crithit5000** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:12 pm

I've had the idea to do a shooter related fanzine/magazine before, I just lack focus and all that sometimes.

Post by **spadgy** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:13 pm

Keeping such a specialist mag afloat as a commercial venture would be tough. The world over even massive mainstream mags are closing down, largely thanks to this internet thing (and gamers are more likely than many to be on the net). Working as a journalist I've seen plenty of good specialist mags fold, and plenty of big mags too.

Unfortunately as shmups don't generate much money a trade/industry mag (than can survive without high sales) wouldn't be feasible, so I think the only thing that could work would be a fanzine. Black and white, glue and scissors, photocopied. That kind of thing, which I love.

Thing is this forum kind of does that job. However, if people were up for working together on a advert free, non-profit making shmup mag, I've worked plenty now as a full time video game journo, and would love to hip in for free. I haven't done a proper fanzine for ages.

I think quarterly would work. Few features, retrospective reviews, interview if we're lucky, and some of the bigger issues from the forum. Comic strip maybe, letters page, shmupmeet photos. Loads you could do...

Dragon1952 · Post by **Dragon1952** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:47 pm

My belief is that anything is possible based upon what the expectations are! A monthly magazine is doable, especially as there is so much history to recap and aspects to discuss.

There are many segments within Shmups as well that can be covered, such as horizontals, verticals, those with continuous play verses checkpoints, sci-fi themes as well as cartoony parodies, the past as well as the current games and so forth. Reviews, playing tips, cheats, secrets and then news from the world of newer coin-ops (such as Cave, Triangle System, etc,,), consoles, portables, PC, doujins and indies. There are also the ancillary items to cover such as DVD's, t-shirts, plush, toy models of ships and characters, and so on and so forth. Maybe even having a monthly Miss Shmup pictorial (not nudes though).

There are two ways to go about this, print and online downloadable. I personally would love an old-fashion monthly print version with an incredible glossy cover that I can collect and catalog for my love of shmups. Bring them out to show others that might get hooked into this hobby as well! A magazine could also generate greater interest from the manufacturing segment to further legitimize the genre of Shmup's as viable into today's crowd but growing marketplace, therefore more new shmups to be produced!

There is even the possibility for ads from Cave and others announcing and selling their goods and wares to this devoted and passionate audience.

An on-line downloadable version might be cheaper to produce but not nearly as attractive a product. That is why I have collected over 120 pcb's because MAME doesn't represent that same mood and passion of playing the real thing. I love tangible things that I can touch - own - enjoy and possess!

In conclusion, a great idea and I want to be the FIRST subscriber to who ever might do this. On the other hand, if you and everyone wants me to I can discuss this idea with the Publisher of PLAY Magazine Dave Halverson. He actually has covered news of Cave games at my urging. I got him to check out the PS2 Cave games a while back. Just my thoughts!

Post by **undamned** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:31 pm

Dragon1952 wrote:On the other hand, if you and everyone wants me to I can discuss this idea with the Publisher of PLAY Magazine Dave Halverson. He actually has covered news of Cave games at my urging. I got him to check out the PS2 Cave games a while back. Just my thoughts!

Great! DO IT!!!

-ud

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:36 pm

Bring back shooter's alley.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:37 pm

Just do a fanzine. If money is the problem, you could make a PDF online mag. I seem to remember that everybody and their mom had their own xeroxed zine in the 90ies. And I agree that it doesn´t have to cover new games. It could be full of cool high-res art, captures of bullet spam, with little strategy drawings, introducing "hidden gems", reviews, price lists... And it should be a bit "artsy" (oh dear!).

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:30 pm

PDF mags are a great idea, i've not read one that I like so far but the idea itself is good.

Dragon1952 · Post by **Dragon1952** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:44 pm

If I could get enough subscribers signed up, I would do it myself! It would be the greatest SHMUP Magazine as it would be loaded to bear as much a collectable as like Cave Artwork, Calenders and Posters! It would have to be or it won't work (for me). Something this niche has to be so desirable that it is "must have" in order to succeed!

It should in addition to what I mentioned in the above post and above paragraph, have to include incredible art pieces, poster pack-ins, bonus monthly full color reprinted (w/permission) Instruction Cards and even the occasional DVD sampler pack-in. Like I said, it has to be a must-have slick and glossy item for every fan that loves and plays Shmup games, or it won't be worth the intensity requirement to create and produce it!

BTW, some of the talented people here would have to be contributors!

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:49 pm

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:55 pm

FIL wrote:PDF mags are a great idea, i've not read one that I like so far but the idea itself is good.

i think its terrible and it has never worked

proper paper print is the only way to go, id definetly buy and contribute in any way i could to a dedicated shmups magazine

ive had an idea of making an arcade-capture shmups DVD for a while (i have all the means, just havent had time to sit down and do it), maybe the two could be combined?

ed: i think having one every month is a bad idea tho, 2 or 3 a year sounds better to me...

kozo · Post by **kozo** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:23 am

I can do the graphic design, or at least help if you've got someone else.

I've got a few (slightly older, need to update this week) samples at connary.com. I really want to help with this!

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:15 am

It's a wonderful pipe dream, but there's a reason why it likely wouldn't work... money. A magazine, on decent paper, in full color, at roughly 8X10/11, with a reasonably sturdy stock for the front and back covers, with no advertisement revenue, and no backing, is going to cost a lot of money each month. This wouldn't be a very big magazine, true. But the smaller the run, the more each print will cost to make on a page by page basis. So unless you know printing presses who will basically give you a huge discount on all this stuff with a low run number magazine, or you have a lot of money to burn, it's going to be financially painful. Oh, and don't forget mailing costs... and all the work that goes into making an attractively designed and well flowing magazine month after month.

So really, why not just make a website? No chat rooms, no forums, no IRC, just news and articles (with an e-mail link or two for prospective contributors). Update it at least every few days (which means spreading incoming stuff out a bit most likely to avoid lulls, like Abandonia seems to do), and use this place as a means to recruit writers, spell checkers artists and such. If you come up with the right design (simple, but expandable), get links to it here, on 2D Gaming, and other video game-centric sites, you'd probably have a nice little means of reaching far more people than an expensive, low run magazine ever would. Plus, you could still offer calenders, hi-res artwork, those cards you mentioned, and all that good stuff, but leave it to the viewer to spend the cash to print it out (remember 300dpi is your friend for good print quality).

Sure, having a tangible object with something like this is great, but not if it leaves you flat broke.

Yeah yeah... same to you

Anyway, if you're still determined to go through with this venture, start by saving some cash and looking into Scribus. It's a free, open source desktop publishing program. It's supposed to be pretty good, and free is always a good price.

overkill55 · Post by **overkill55** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:02 am

kozo wrote:I can do the graphic design, or at least help if you've got someone else.

Same here. I'll design whatever I can

I vote PDF because of cost. Really, how many people are going to read this anyway?

As many have already said, magazines are old news because of the internet. PDF creation is easier, more cost effective, and reaches a broader audience. It keeps it in the realm of a hobby more than actual work.

In any case, there is no shortage of journalists here: spadgy, EOJ, GP, the guy who runs insomniac (sorry forgot the name), etc.

I think it could work. Aside from coverage of new games (which aren't many), older shmups, lesser-knowns, and in-development (hobbyist) games could be featured.

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:35 pm

Check out Gamer's Quarter for a good example of a PDF-based fanzine that is done well.

Post by **spadgy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:32 pm

I'd love to contribute writing. I work as a games journalist but I'd do it for free for the love of shmups! Really - I'd start tomorrow if we began this project

With regard to the cynics talking about money stopping this happen; that's never stopped some great fanzines and low-fi mags making big waves as respected publications.

And with regard to PDF, I say what's the point? Sure there's some great PDF mags, but you can't replace the tactile. read-on-the-bus/in-the-bath quality of something you can hold to read.

Finally, the number of posts here and the enthusiasm for what is actually such a tiny topic area (relatively) shows there's plenty we could write about.

Let's do it!

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:37 pm

A print mag would be difficult due to cost and difficulty of distribution, the membership of this forum spans several continents.

Post by **undamned** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:42 pm

FRO wrote:Check out Gamer's Quarter for a good example of a PDF-based fanzine that is done well.

Without even looking at one of the PDF's I kinda like the soul of that site.

What about having the zine available in both PDF and for mail order subscription?
-ud

Post by **spadgy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:52 pm

undamned wrote:
FRO wrote:Check out Gamer's Quarter for a good example of a PDF-based fanzine that is done well.
Without even looking at one of the PDF's I kinda like the soul of that site.

What about having the zine available in both PDF and for mail order subscription?
-ud

Sounds really sensible...

Daigoro · Post by **Daigoro** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:15 am

Dragon1952 wrote:If I could get enough subscribers signed up, I would do it myself! It would be the greatest SHMUP Magazine as it would be loaded to bear as much a collectable as like Cave Artwork, Calenders and Posters! It would have to be or it won't work (for me). Something this niche has to be so desirable that it is "must have" in order to succeed!

It should in addition to what I mentioned in the above post and above paragraph, have to include incredible art pieces, poster pack-ins, bonus monthly full color reprinted (w/permission) Instruction Cards and even the occasional DVD sampler pack-in. Like I said, it has to be a must-have slick and glossy item for every fan that loves and plays Shmup games, or it won't be worth the intensity requirement to create and produce it!

BTW, some of the talented people here would have to be contributors!

i would pay hard cash for something like that. sounds like something i would really love.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:17 am

Yeah!, a real printed mag is the only way to go.

just like Dragon1952 said, a mag like that could inlcude superplay DVDs, Posters, OSTs, Artwork, Stickers, collectibles, even doujin shmups on DVD(maybe an exclusive shmup made FOR the mag).

for actual content between tips/strategy, new ports on the handhelds, new games, the doujin scene, fan mail, retro reviews, interviews, shmup babe of the month??!?, a scratch and smell(not sure about that one), articles on classic series, rumors, classified ads(another way to make money?) and a "to avoid" shmup of the month (comic relief).

another nice idea would be some kind of high score contest with a game submitted every month.

Something that every shmup fan in the world would HAVE to own...and there is many more fans that we may think. a japanese translation would be a good idea too.

Octopod · Post by **Octopod** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:49 am

This is an awesome idea.I really hope you guys do this...id subscribe for sure.

Warp_Rattler · Post by **Warp_Rattler** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:14 am

The aforementioned Gamer's Quarter does both the PDF and hardbound-copy route with their publications. The PDF version is released first while the files presumably go to the publisher, and then the hard copy comes out a couple months later. They look really nice, too--the insides are all black and white, but the covers are full-color on rather heavy stock. The whole thing's squarebound, so you can easily display them on a bookshelf or what not. Really quite classy; they end up running $8 or so with shipping, but considering the small print run and quality it seems pretty worthwhile. The editor, Shapermc, has an account here, so someone could always ask him what they do for the publishing side of things. Also, a smaller print-on-demand publishing company would be ideal to ensure that nobody goes bankrupt with stacks of unsold copies in their home after footing the minimum publishing bill out of pocket; the tradeoff is that it's a little more expensive, but that's what you get for virtually no risk.

As far as extra goodies thrown in the magazine, I think full-color flyer reprints--with permission, of course, and maybe watermarked in an unobtrusive manner so they don't get passed off as the real thing on auction sites--would be pretty sweet.

I'd love to contribe to the writing end of things if it came to that; I've done a few articles for the Gamer's Quarter, actually; they're not my best as I think I was trying too hard to ape the "college kids playing at cultural intellectuals" vibe that some of the other contributers had about them, but I'm sure I could produce something articulate and unpretentious about shumps. It might even be entertaining!