Ikaruga is awesome but sucks compared to Radiant Silvergun

[Frederik]

The 7 weapons in RSG are just too much. At first I thought that would be really cool, but it seems that Treasure wanted to go overboard with it just for the sake of pushing it to the limit. The sword is the only real cool weapon.

And while I really think Ikarugas system is fascinating in its simplicity, RSG is a prime example for how NOT to make score systems.

[Hardstepah]

Radiant Silvergun is better. Ikaruga is my 2nd favorite shmup ever but RS has it all. all the weapons, chaining enemies, and a much better soundtrack. ikaruga is too simple to compare to Radiant silvergun in my book.

[szycag]

To paraphrase something I read on wikipedia

RS: Maximalism school of design
Ika: Minimalism school of design

Was this maybe what you were trying to say in the original post? Both games require a ton of memorization and practice, one is just much simpler and brief about it.

[Frederik]

RS: Maximalism school of design
Ika: Minimalism school of design

I read that too, and I like the idea that Treasure had some sort of meta-idea connecting those games. However, I can´t see where "Project RSG 3" would fit in.

[KNTain]

I do prefer Silvergun's look, for what it's worth. Ikaruga is pretty, but Silvergun's stages and enemies are about way more vibrant and interesting to look at, and the soundtrack is better. Not that more colors is always a good thing or anything.

[jpj]

the thing with silvergun for me, is that i can't think of a single shmup company who have released a debut game as good as this.

[zero.otaku]

More on topic, I love both, but have a leaning towards IKa as it was the game that got me seriously into shmups over having a casual interest.

I used to work in both a mom 'n pop game store and an arcade in addition to talking to lots of people online and I've heard this same sentiment echoed quite a bit. What was it about Ikaruga that attracted your attention? I can't quite seem to get a handle on how or why this particular game - released for the Gamecube of all consoles (I'm presuming this is the release you're referring to; if not, my apologies) - managed to garner so much attention from non-shmuppers. No one that I talk to now seems to have any awareness of things like Gradius V or R-Type Final, both of which carry stronger brand recognition and were released on a console with a much larger user base. Maybe the NGC's sparse library actually allowed lesser-known titles like Ikaruga to stand out.

Anyway, as far as the main topic of this thread goes, I'd have to say I prefer Radiant Silvergun but I think each game succeeds equally well in executing its concepts. For me, it's hard to find many flaws in actual game design in either; rather, I feel people's reaction to them is based on how well they receive the style of gameplay each title offers.

[Zebra Airforce]

What was it about Ikaruga that attracted your attention? I can't quite seem to get a handle on how or why this particular game ... managed to garner so much attention from non-shmuppers.

Because it looks insane, and of course Treasure's games are always hyped to hell and back by every news outlet. Personally, I just found a video on youtube, thought it looked bitchin' and bought it. After that, my addiction just started snowballing.

RS: Maximalism school of design
Ika: Minimalism school of design

I think a more accurate statement would be:

RS: School of Gunstars
Ika: School of Awesome

[KNTain]

Maybe the NGC's sparse library actually allowed lesser-known titles like Ikaruga to stand out.

This, and I really do think that the shotgun-spread hyperbole around RSG had some kind of effect. People could easily get the sequel for cheap.

[shoe-sama]

chaining is st00pid

[jpj]

rich

[shoe-sama]

also RSG has too many button combos feels like a fighting game

HADOKEN

[Rob]

Radiant Silvergun is Chaos Field with better production values.

[shoe-sama]

also what happens if you're color blind

I could go on but I'll just stop there and let you guys drool over RSG

[320x240]

also RSG has too many button combos feels like a fighting game

HADOKEN

Every Treasure game feels like a fighting game.

The thing with RS and especially Ikaruga is that they are percieved as something more than just "simple plane shooters". Whereas shmups are usually considered a guilty pleasure it's okay to like these games.

[doodude]

Insofar as Radiant Silvergun may stroke one's inner cornea with blessed phantasms of enormousness, each with singular purpose to destroy one who succumbed to its nefarious stratagem; these apparitions are largely absent from the comparatively somber Ikaruga. In choosing to not pursue the erstwhile flight of rugged guardians--highwaymen to the careless player--one may lose sight of the alchemy of careful ingredients and sum the title as less spectacular. But it is in the crafty subterfuge of this imbalance that the machinations eventually make themselves known. For one title, it is a struggle to keep apace of the onslaught of specialized foes. For the other, it is an unfurling ballet. The structure of the former is plain to see, but the structure of the latter, with its masked and presumably disposable actors, reveals itself only through time and delays its anagnorisis almost until curtain.

That Iuchi plies his craft well cannot be denied, but this author cannot admit to gaining much jubilation or elucidation through his works.

Yeah, what he said! ( I think... )

What Id like to know further, are these 2 games or 1 game depending on your view, a fluke or are there other games that compare overall?
i.e. scale of eye candy, sound, story, difficulty, weapons etc...

..

[jpj]

I'll just stop there

good.

[Rob]

What Id like to know further, are these 2 games or 1 game depending on your view, a fluke or are there other games that compare overall?
i.e. scale of eye candy, sound, story, difficulty, weapons etc...

..

Space Megaforce

[spadgy]

RS: Maximalism school of design
Ika: Minimalism school of design

I read that too, and I like the idea that Treasure had some sort of meta-idea connecting those games. However, I can´t see where "Project RSG 3" would fit in.

RSG3: Mediumilism school of design.

Maybe all they could do is something mediocre and average, so they covered everything possible with just three shmups

[Keade]

What was it about Ikaruga that attracted your attention? I can't quite seem to get a handle on how or why this particular game ... managed to garner so much attention from non-shmuppers.

I read tons of compliments about this game (from people I knew I've relatively similar tastes with), have seen some screens, read an article and played (and drooled).

To answer to the 2nd part of the quote (I'm going to partly repeat / develop what some others wrote above) :
Maybe because :
-Ikaruga doesn't play like a typical shmup (but...some other shmups are the same : RS, Twinkle Star Sprites, and more generally, elaborated scoring systems add much variety...)
-Ika is very very readable and clear, visually (would probably help people new to shmups, even though the game is hard. Of course, many games are more readables than it, but with manics success, it's becoming rarer).
-The base idea is wonderfully presented as a whole.
Stages have some light blue (~white) and dark red (~black) parts, there are the yin and yang symbols, the corresponding ship colors, no other bullets that white/black ones, one weapon only, many many simetries; Even the high-score table is in grayscale and the game over screen is displayed in dark red !
I don't know of any other recent game which is that minimalist (maybe ICO or SOTC...).

[spadgy]

And yes - I know they made more than 2 shmups already

[JJG]

Radiant Silvergun is Chaos Field with better production values.

You're trying too hard.

[shoe-sama]

ikaruga has one thing going for it imo

lack of bombs

forces you to learn the damn game

which is awesome

[Arvandor]

also RSG has too many button combos feels like a fighting game

HADOKEN

Cotton 2

[szycag]

Most shmups don't have orchestral, epic soundtracks like Ika and RS do. I think that's another thing that gets non-shmuppers interested in them.

[shoe-sama]

also RSG has too many button combos feels like a fighting game

HADOKEN

Cotton 2

its as if these guys thought star soldier was the coolest thing ever

OMG THIS GAME IS AWESOME LETS COPY IT

[Macaw]

my threads are awesome

[shoe-sama]

yes

edit:

Insofar as Radiant Silvergun may stroke one's inner cornea with blessed phantasms of enormousness, each with singular purpose to destroy one who succumbed to its nefarious stratagem; these apparitions are largely absent from the comparatively somber Ikaruga. In choosing to not pursue the erstwhile flight of rugged guardians--highwaymen to the careless player--one may lose sight of the alchemy of careful ingredients and sum the title as less spectacular. But it is in the crafty subterfuge of this imbalance that the machinations eventually make themselves known. For one title, it is a struggle to keep apace of the onslaught of specialized foes. For the other, it is an unfurling ballet. The structure of the former is plain to see, but the structure of the latter, with its masked and presumably disposable actors, reveals itself only through time and delays its anagnorisis almost until curtain.

That Iuchi plies his craft well cannot be denied, but this author cannot admit to gaining much jubilation or elucidation through his works.

*explodes*

[Rob]

Radiant Silvergun is Chaos Field with better production values.

You're trying too hard.

What you see there is a genuine opinion.

[scrilla4rella]

RS all the way!! All you people who like Ika better are just trainspotters who hopped on the bandwagon too late.

j/k ^^_