Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?
Is that guy credible? I'd like to see that message from Cave. Note that he said "emulate", not "dump". And there is NO protection that can't be broken.R.Belmont wrote: It's protected by an undumpable MCU and Cave has told us we're in deep trouble if we emulate it. So buy the PCB guilt-free.
I think having the ROM out there would be a nice motivation for Cave to reconsider porting the game rather sooner than later.
If Cave really contacted the MAME team because of the Ketsui dumping project, then it may already have served the purpose to give them a wakeup call. So that's good.
Last edited by Ceph on Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
He's very credible. There's a reason the half-working DOJ driver/dump got removed from MAME...Ceph wrote:Is that guy credible? I'd like to see that message from Cave. Note that he said "emulate", not "dump". And there is NO protection that can't be broken.R.Belmont wrote: It's protected by an undumpable MCU and Cave has told us we're in deep trouble if we emulate it. So buy the PCB guilt-free.
I think having the ROM out there would be a nice motivation for Cave to reconsider porting the game.
And while there's no protection that can't be broken, there is a such thing as protection that is too expensive or time consuming to break give current resources. As I understand it, the MCU is quite a tough one; the data they need is contained in execute-only rom, and it's internal. So there's no hope of trojaning it. The best bet may be decapping; but it depends on what kind of rom it is.
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GaijinPunch
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Didn't a lot of the members here put money into this? They should at least give the PCB to the person who donated the most money. I know I'd be pretty steamed right now if this game was just kept by those douche bag Mame people, and not someone who hoped to play it. Maybe we could pass the PCB around or something.
What did the Mame people say they were going to do with it anyway?
What did the Mame people say they were going to do with it anyway?
I did great so much water and milk that I threw up when I was little.
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PROMETHEUS
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You can just buy it, play it, then sell it a few months later and get all your money back. Can't do that with a computer. Then you can wait for it to be in MAME in a decade or so to play it again.PROMETHEUS wrote:I'd rather wait 10 years to play the games on MAME and play other stuff meanwhile than buying a PCB at the cost of a computer lol T.T
And waiting 10+ years to play a Cave game? No thanks.
As zakk said, Arbee is *very* credible.Ceph wrote:Is that guy credible? I'd like to see that message from Cave. Note that he said "emulate", not "dump". And there is NO protection that can't be broken.R.Belmont wrote: It's protected by an undumpable MCU and Cave has told us we're in deep trouble if we emulate it. So buy the PCB guilt-free.
When he says "emulate" and not "dump", he's probably reffering to the MCU itself. That means he's thinking Ketsui's ROMs can be dumped except this one, and the undumpable MCU needs to be emulated (simulated would perhaps be a better term) by some rough hack trying to do the same job.
That would explain Cave's attitude. Perhaps they probably wouldn't bother too much if Ketsui just could be played in MAME. But a code floating around which would show how to simulate the encypted MCUs they rely on without even needing to dump them, may appear as a major concern for them. After all, they could rely on similar chips in other PCBs than Ketsui...
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Mortificator
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I thought that distributing ROMs was copyright infringement, but emulation itself was legal. Considering Cave's been know to threaten to prosecute to the full extent of the jam for using their boards outside Japan, I wonder how much weight this has.R.Belmont wrote:It's protected by an undumpable MCU and Cave has told us we're in deep trouble if we emulate it.
Effyouseekay whyohyou.Hibou wrote:Arbee
Indeed, emulation itself is not illegal, which is why you can freely download MAME at the MAME site. R.Belmont is a very credible MAME source, he's done a lot of emulation work over the years. However, just because the MAME people won't likely be trying to emulate it anytime soon, doesn't mean that no-one else will. There are lots of other emu authors out there, and lots of other emulators, many of which exist because MAME did not support the games emulated in them in the first place. Indeed, a lot of the games that are now in MAME were emulated first in other emulators years before they appeared in MAME. Not all that long ago, everyone thought that the CPS3 encrption was impossible to crack.
bcass-surely the popularity of the software has something to do with it? A lot of people would have wanted to have a crack at CPS3 as it's high profile, I wouldn't have thought Ketsui would attract the same sort of attention.
Isn't the sound in Dogyuun contained in an undumpable MCU? What if Ketsui meets the same fate and is emulated in an incomplete form for ages? Dogyuun is a 16 year old game
Isn't the sound in Dogyuun contained in an undumpable MCU? What if Ketsui meets the same fate and is emulated in an incomplete form for ages? Dogyuun is a 16 year old game
That's true to some extent. Usually if you have more people working on an emulation project you're probably more likely to see a result.Geezer wrote:bcass-surely the popularity of the software has something to do with it? A lot of people would have wanted to have a crack at CPS3 as it's high profile, I wouldn't have thought Ketsui would attract the same sort of attention.
Yeah, but people haven't been trying to emulate it for 16 years! Also, I think that audio chip in Dogyuun is on guru's list of chips to be decapped. I don't know how long this decapping process has been going on for in the world of emulation. If it's a fairly recent development/option, then I'd imagine that's why that chip has taken so long to emulate.Geezer wrote:Isn't the sound in Dogyuun contained in an undumpable MCU? What if Ketsui meets the same fate and is emulated in an incomplete form for ages? Dogyuun is a 16 year old game
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pixelcorps
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I think Progear was first emulated in Final Burn Alpha, not MAME. That was another scenario where all the collectors were claiming it would be 10 years before we saw it emulated...
Last edited by bcass on Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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pixelcorps
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pixelcorps
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you know what I hate? people that dictate what should be done about something even they didnt contribute a single damn thing to the projectDale wrote:Didn't a lot of the members here put money into this? They should at least give the PCB to the person who donated the most money. I know I'd be pretty steamed right now if this game was just kept by those douche bag Mame people, and not someone who hoped to play it.
we?Maybe we could pass the PCB around or something
I'll put you 1st in the queue for it, you seem completely deserving of it..
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hermosaguy
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