Dimahoo is 9x16 aspect ratio!?

[Dave_K.]

I just got a Great Mahou Daisakusen (Dimahoo) CPS2 board, and couldn't figure out why it didn't look right in my cab with vertical monitor. I then booted up the mame version and realized (at the starting info screen) that this thing is damn near 16x9 aspect ratio (rotated thats 9x16). I adjusted the monitor to squish the sides (used the cross hatch test pattern) and sure enough, it looked much better.

Does anyone know why Raizing made it this way? Are there any vertical shooter cabs with rotated 16x9 displays in Japan?

On a side note, this is my first CPS2 board, and holy crap this thing sounds like a jet engine with the freakin fan running. Are all CPS2 boards like this!?

[Grinning Cat]

No idea why Raizing decided to make Dimahoo that way...

but my Progear board is pretty noisy. So, I think it's a safe bet that all CPS2 boards sound like that!


~ Louis

[parodius]

All CPS2 boards are like that, as it has a resolution of 384x224.
If you want to have square pixels, you will get a 1.71 ratio which is really close to 1.77 (16/9) ratio.
But they are meant to be played on a 1.33 (4/3) screen, so you'll end up with rectangle pixels.

It's even worse on the IGS PGM system (and Cave boards based on this hardware) : it has a resolution of 448x224 which gives you a 2.0 ratio with square pixels !

[raiden]

you can turn the noise down by putting a 50 Ohm resistor in the fan´s cable. Some people even cut it off completely, but it´s safer to have a little air circulation, even though the chips don´t really get that hot. But if you´re playing the game while it sits inside a closed cabinet, you probably won´t hear the noise while playing anyway, do you?

[dpful]

I put a tiny pot on the wire and then turn it till it's still spinning but as quiet as I want. Then I close it up and leave it like that.

[Dave_K.]

Thanks everyone on the suggestions for quieting my CPS2 board. I think I'll try attaching a pot to the wire and see how that goes.

All CPS2 boards are like that, as it has a resolution of 384x224.
If you want to have square pixels, you will get a 1.71 ratio which is really close to 1.77 (16/9) ratio.
But they are meant to be played on a 1.33 (4/3) screen, so you'll end up with rectangle pixels.

I don't see how Dimahoo was ment to be played in 1.33 (4/3) rotated aspect as the graphics are all stretched. For example, the round power up icons turn out oval/oblong. When I adjust the width to make the crosshatch patten square, all the graphics look correct. Maybe the other cps2 games graphics were made with rectangle sized pixels in mind, but dimahoo doesn't look like it.

It's even worse on the IGS PGM system (and Cave boards based on this hardware) : it has a resolution of 448x224 which gives you a 2.0 ratio with square pixels !

Ok, now you just blew my mind. I ran downstairs to check my Ketsui board, brought up the cross hatch pattern, and yes, they are rectagles. I squished the sides to make them squares, and you are also correct...looks like its past 1.71 ratio! When I played it in this format, I didn't notice anything out of shape while playing the game...but I did notice the title screen and high score pages definately look squished. So I'm guessing Ketsui was made with 1.33 aspect in mind (at least for some of the graphics).

[ResOGlas]

I don't see how Dimahoo was ment to be played in 1.33 (4/3) rotated aspect as the graphics are all stretched. For example, the round power up icons turn out oval/oblong. When I adjust the width to make the crosshatch patten square, all the graphics look correct. Maybe the other cps2 games graphics were made with rectangle sized pixels in mind, but dimahoo doesn't look like it.

I find this very interesting. Progear is also widescreen!
When playing in 4:3, the intro logos and select screen artwork are the correct aspect ratio, but in-game everything is squished and stretched vertically (Oval bullets, and slightly faster up/down movement than right/left)

If I letterbox it on my cab and have black bars on the top and bottom(Think of watching a widescreen movie on a 4:3 TV), The bullets are normal circles, the enemy ships are not squished and tall like fisher-price toys, and the left/right and up/down movement speeds are equal!

So Progear:
4:3 aspect: proper bootup title logos and artwork, incorrect gameplay aspect
17:1 aspect: Proper gameplay aspect, incorrect art aspect


Edit: I don't know about Dimahoo, man. I checked that one and it looks more correct in-game in 4:3. I'm pretty darn positive about Progear, though. Try locking on to an enemy and look at the huge goofy oval lock-on target/and look how it is a perfect circle in widescreen mode.

[Dave_K.]

Yeah, seems this strange pixel aspect ratio is normal for CPS2 games do to the native resolution as parodius pointed out. I bet Mars Matrix is the same way. So the only problem playing these on a normal screen is if the game designers created the graphics with 1.33 pixel aspect in mind, or 1.0 square pixels.

[P_HAT]

How about official cps2 cab monitors?
they 4:3 or 16:9?

[iatneH]

I think they are created with 1.33 pixels in mind.

If you look at some sprite rips from CPS-2 games, for example Progear, the sprites look very stretched out when viewed on a computer monitor with square pixels, but look just fine when displayed on a 4:3 arcade monitor.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Yeah, seems this strange pixel aspect ratio is normal for CPS2 games do to the native resolution as parodius pointed out. I bet Mars Matrix is the same way. So the only problem playing these on a normal screen is if the game designers created the graphics with 1.33 pixel aspect in mind, or 1.0 square pixels.

Yes, the factory installed "stock" CPS2 cooling fan is notorious for being quite loud. I do recall that oxtsu mentioned in his "CPS2 modded fan" shmup.org thread, that he installed a quieter fan when it's in operation. I had to opportunity to try out such a loaned MM CPS2 board and was surprised how loud the cooling fan really is. Eventually, I ended up buying a JPN ver. of CPS2 MM myself and haven't regretted it since then -- paid a measily $52.50 USD off of eBay a few years back... ^_~

Playing Mars Matrix on the PSP with NJ's CPS2PSP emulator in 24:17 screen aspect ratio is the correct screen size as the planet is portrayed as round whilst if displayed in 4:3 mode, it doesn't look correct anyhow.

It was through trial & error, that I discovered that the CPS2 version of Mars Matrix looks best on the PSP's LCD screen displayed at the above mentioned aspect ratio...

It's best to adjust your RGB monitor for proper screen raito display purposes before starting a CPS2-based game whether it's Tate or yoko mode to begin with (i.e -- CPS2 Dimahoo & CPS2 Progear No Arashi)...

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[thchardcore]

CPS 3 has a widescreen mode for SFIII:2nd impact. It makes it widescreen without making anything but the backrounds wider.

Pretty cool, wish 3rd strike had this option.

[Dave_K.]

Playing Mars Matrix on the PSP with NJ's CPS2PSP emulator in 24:17 screen aspect ratio is the correct screen size as the planet is portrayed as round whilst if displayed in 4:3 mode, it doesn't look correct anyhow.

Very interesting. I haven't really played MM much to notice this, maybe you can take a few screenshots in mame?

I've done exactly this for Dimahoo, taken shots in mame and saved them in original square aspect ratio (which makes the image 9x16 in size), and then resized to 1.33 pixel aspect (in this case for 3x4 its .75 aspect) to compare. Obviously the end screen with the moon in the background looks better at 3x4, but the other round enemy at the start, and the gold diamonds look better at 9x16 aspect. I'm at a loss which looks proper now.

[ResOGlas]

I'm at a loss which looks proper now.

Bottom left 4:3 gameplay, and bottom right game-over art are correct. I'd have to say the game is 4:3. (1.33:1)

It's an interesting mix, considering the crystals and power ups are 16:9. Gotta' take the less of two evils, and 4:3 is the right choice for this game.


I'm 110% positive Progear is widescreen native for gameplay, 4:3 for art. Art is cool, but not more important than the game itself. Progear is 1.71:1 (16:9/widescreen).

[system11]

CPS2 are supposed to be that way, it's their resolution. Now, artists can take this into account when drawing sprites (hence things looking horizontally stretched on a PC monitor), or they can not care (hence things looking vertically stretched on an arcade monitor).

Looks like Cave didn't care or didn't realise until it was too late.

[wrdaniel]

you need also take in account that it is not a perfect top down view of the scene. so round or square elements on the ground should not be perfect round/square from your point of view.

[Dave_K.]

you need also take in account that it is not a perfect top down view of the scene. so round or square elements on the ground should not be perfect round/square from your point of view.

This is a good point, particularly with the P coins, as they draw the top edge. Kinda hard to see with the round enemy though.

I think I'll agree with ResOGlas in that some of the important artwork looks good at 3:4, while the others look like the artists forgot, or maybe it was done before they knew the hardware platform like bloodflowers says.