What is meant by "easy"?

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spadgy
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Post by spadgy »

Erinu wrote:Easy = not challenging.
I don't know. Though I never go for easy I'm sure there's games like Ikaruga, where to the ordinary casual player (and not a sadomasochist shmup obsessive) easy might seem a little challenging.

But in most cases you're definitely right.
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Post by maco »

Plasmo wrote:I cant think of a single shmup thats not a memorizer.
there is no skill involved in playing shmups as long as you have enough time.
Surely you have to memorise/learn how to deal with certain situations to become skilled at them?
Unless you’re saying skill is an innate ability, that’s only required for truly random events?
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Post by Plasmo »

Unless you’re saying skill is an innate ability, that’s only required for truly random events?
Thats what i think, yes. If you exactly know what bullet patterns come in the next 5secs and you know all the sweet spots/where to stand/how to move its not about skill, its just about the time youve practiced that bit.
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spadgy
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Post by spadgy »

So shmup ability is only about familiarity and not skill?

Meaning all of us of able mind with working hands and eyes and the like have the same set chance at doing well, and would improve at the same rate in relation to time.

Surely though there are all levels of 'ability to get good at a game' personal to different people, which is essence individual skill...

I guess we'll get nowhere with the debate though, as it's the old 'nature v nurture' one, and that's never been solved.
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sikraiken
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Post by sikraiken »

spadgy wrote:So shmup ability is only about familiarity and not skill?
Ultimately it can be. Skill helps.
spadgy wrote:Meaning all of us of able mind with working hands and eyes and the like have the same set chance at doing well,
Negating any "skill" (this can be defined in different ways obviously), yes to some extent.
spadgy wrote:and would improve at the same rate in relation to time.
No, this is where skill/experience comes into play.
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spadgy
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Post by spadgy »

sikraiken wrote:
spadgy wrote:and would improve at the same rate in relation to time.
No, this is where skill/experience comes into play.
Exactly! So I think skill really is a defining part of it.

I just can't accept playing a (memoriser) shmup is "not about skill, its just about the time youve practiced that bit."
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sikraiken
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Post by sikraiken »

spadgy wrote:
sikraiken wrote:
spadgy wrote:and would improve at the same rate in relation to time.
No, this is where skill/experience comes into play.
Exactly! So I think skill really is a defining part of it.

I just can't accept playing a (memoriser) shmup is "not about skill, its just about the time youve practiced that bit."
We were saying that if you took "skill" out of the equation, it's still possible to do the same exact thing as others. Time plays a huge role at that point.

Ultimately, the biggest problem isn't skill for people. That's what most people don't realize I think. The biggest problem is just sticking with one game and playing it a lot for an extended period of time.
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Post by maco »

I thought skill was what you gain from practicing something.
For example I would say someone is skilled at dodging a certain bullet pattern if they had learned how to dodge it every time, in the same way I would say someone is skilled at playing a tune on a piano if they could play it every time.
Obviously someone who can play a musical instrument in real time using sheet music, has more skill than a person who kept practicing a tune until known off by heart.
But I think the word skill is still acceptable to use here?

Another example, if you take a bullet pattern that has large gaps and gives you plenty of time to dodge it, and one that has small gaps and less time to dodge, I’d say the latter needed more skill than the former whether you can dodge both with a 100% success rate or not.
It’s obvious to me that you need more accuracy to dodge a denser pattern, and accuracy is a skill that gets better with practice.
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Post by shoe-sama »

i have the skill that lets me abuse broken mechanics
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Post by Dante »

I'd say easy to me is as in, all the Pc Engine shmups are easy.. I can 1 life PC Engine Graduis and Super Star Soldier easy.. But Garies on the Megadrive is impossibly hard, and I could never beat the Mermaid boss:(
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Post by Randorama »

spadgy wrote: I just can't accept playing a (memoriser) shmup is "not about skill, its just about the time youve practiced that bit."
This passage strikes me as a contradiction. On any dictionary I've found around, skill is defined as something learnt to do something else. So, if you practice something for a given amount of time, you should develop skill, non?

Then again, a general trend of human beings is either to consider something given (not even innate), so that one is supposed to be able to e.g. dodge some pattern as soon as he's born, or some kind of ultra-generic learning process, of course "cultural" (Whatever culture is). Nothing new here, and as an academia wanker I can confirm that the more one knows, the more this attitude becomes virulent (I don't endorse it, but I am an exception).

As per "easy": this is a gradable adjective, so it expresses some degree of a scale, in this case "easiness". It is also a closed scale, so that one could decide a value between 0 and n of easiness and check if the value attributable to a game falls within this scale.

What's easiness, then? Everyone has is ready-made definition, which is of course the best one in the world and possibly based on the whims of the moment.

As far as I am concerned, an easy game is a game whose BASIC mechanics can be learned within an hour, it can be completed without learning beyond the basic mechanics (with, say, 20 hours of practice) and rewards the player with good scoring opportunities even by sticking to the basics (e.g. 30% of the virtual maximum).

So:

1) Immediate basic mechanics;
2) Requires low amount of time to complete;
3) Decent score opportunities;

...All gradable scales as well. Numbers have been made up to make the argument clearer, in case...
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Post by Fighter17 »

1CC a shmup that I played for two days only.

Compile shmups fits the bill.
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