ports that are better than the arcade originals

[BIL]

Contra/Super C : )


Bionic Commando...

It's another non-shooter, but Jackal would seem to go hand-in-hand with both AC Contras on this topic. Due to the NES versions of all three removing the aiming lag, which all but kills Jackal's intensity for me. Hard to swerve about point-blanking enemy tanks when you know you won't be able to fire at them for a good half-second.

[GaijinPunch]

Dude, can you manage to post with just a little more class? I mean, just a little. I get it, you have a proper RGB monitor.

Well, the thread isn't useful if we don't nitpick. I hardly think the display is nitpicking though. I simply made the point that if you're playing in S-Video on a TV, the interlacing is probably not going to bother you. If you're actually looking for something to replace your PCB with, this is a bad example.

[Rob]

It isn't if you have a TV, and it's not like MM requires you to rotate it.

And I don't understand how RGB is the bare minimum for gaming. It makes good things look better, but come on. There isn't much wrong with S-Video and it's perfectly playable.

So I don't have to post this later. The thread is which is better, not better in every way. The original arcade game might look marginally better on the right setup, but DC version:

1. fixes a key scoring flaw
2. offers more control options
3. remixed mode

That far outweighs not being able to play on an RGB monitor, unless the only thing available to anyone was an RGB monitor.

[MX7]

Mars Matrix looks fine on my TV. I'm not sure what RGB actually is, but as far as I know I have it. I never thought it was a particualrly beautiful game anyway. The big thing about the Dreamcast port is: 1: The revised scoring system and 2: the revised control system (which works infinitely better than the one button arcade version IMO). By these powers combined it makes it a port better than its arcade counterpart.

[CIT]

And I don't understand how RGB is the bare minimum for gaming. It makes good things look better, but come on. There isn't much wrong with S-Video and it's perfectly playable.

The key point is this:

If you're actually looking for something to replace your PCB with

When we talk about the qualities of ports we have to really take every factor into account, and that includes whether or not it has authentic display.

Maybe you don't care if Mars Matrix is upscaled and flickers and looks blurry, because you just wanna play the game, and that's fine, too, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly an acceptable port.

Basically I would compare it to DVDs.

Some people just wanna watch a movie, and they don't care if it's been reformated to 4:3 and has a horrible transfer and washed out colors, as long as they get to see their favorite actors.

Others want to get as close as possible to the cinematic experience, so they demand preserved aspect ratio, anamorphic transfer, remastered audio, etc. For those people films are not just about storytelling, but are an integrated audiovisual experience.

Same thing applies to videogames.

[electricgrave]

Dude, can you manage to post with just a little more class? I mean, just a little. I get it, you have a proper RGB monitor.

Well, the thread isn't useful if we don't nitpick. I hardly think the display is nitpicking though. I simply made the point that if you're playing in S-Video on a TV, the interlacing is probably not going to bother you. If you're actually looking for something to replace your PCB with, this is a bad example.

I wouldn't go that far as to dismiss S-Video so quickly, I've run my CMVS in all 3 US commercial video formats and I have to say that S-Video is just a bit pale compared to component, however it does retain some of the sharpness and the color issues can be adjusted to a point, composite sucks as we all know the dot crawling is hideous. I defenatly agree that RGB monitor is the way to go, but I gotta tell you my Wega CRT with component video gives a really good picture rivaling all of my arcades.

I have to add that if anyone is interested in a practical inexpensive setup to play their supergun a CRT Component Tube (non HD) does wonders and avoids the hassle of having an RGB monitor dedicated to this alone. Although the NEC RGB Monitors are great, having 2 of those myself I've been wanting to connect the saturn via RGB Scart, but I just haven't yet due to other things that take priority.

On another note; what kind of TV produces 240p? I've played ESPG in my projector that supports HD/Component signal and when I do the PS2 code the projector refers to the resolution as 480p like the dreamcast and most Xbox games. I know that all this games have been design originally on a 320 x 240 resolution, but in most consoles there's a bit of an "upscaling" is it not? I guess an RGB monitor could reproduce this resolution, but even so the PS2 port seems to be 480p with the code, so how can you get 240p out of it? I would really like to know.

Thanks in advance for any help, and please forgive the lenght of the post, I've allways been very interested in this type of subjects.

[CIT]

On another note; what kind of TV produces 240p? I've played ESPG in my projector that supports HD/Component signal and when I do the PS2 code the projector refers to the resolution as 480p like the dreamcast and most Xbox games. I know that all this games have been design originally on a 320 x 240 resolution, but in most consoles there's a bit of an "upscaling" is it not? I guess an RGB monitor could reproduce this resolution, but even so the PS2 port seems to be 480p with the code, so how can you get 240p out of it? I would really like to know.

You can't, if you connect your PS2 with component, it will automatically be upscaled.

Connect it with an RGB-scart to an SD CRT TV/monitor and you'll get 240p in tate mode.

[Rob]

When we talk about the qualities of ports we have to really take every factor into account, and that includes whether or not it has authentic display.

So the answer is no port since there's no marquee with a home port.

doesn't mean it's suddenly an acceptable port.

OMG now we're talking about it being an acceptable port.

Flicker? Man, it's like I've never played this "Mars Matrix".

[CIT]

When we talk about the qualities of ports we have to really take every factor into account, and that includes whether or not it has authentic display.

So the answer is no port since there's no marquee with a home port.

Don't be ridiculous.

doesn't mean it's suddenly an acceptable port.

OMG now we're talking about it being an acceptable port.

Flicker? Man, it's like I've never played this "Mars Matrix".

No, actually it's like you've never played CPS2 Mars Matrix in RGB.

If you saw them side by side you'd know what I mean.

[Kron]

Mars Matrix looks fine on my TV. I'm not sure what RGB actually is, but as far as I know I have it.

Contender for stupid post of the year 2008.

[sideshow]

Insector X for the arcade has cutesey graphics and music. The Genesis port is completely overhauled with awesome music and redrawn character sprites that are much more serious looking.

[CIT]

Insector X for the arcade has cutesey graphics and music. The Genesis port is completely overhauled with awesome music and redrawn character sprites that are much more serious looking.

It's not a port but a completely different game. Hot-B just bought the Insector-X licence from Taito and then ran with it.

[freddiebamboo]

Mars Matrix looks fine on my TV. I'm not sure what RGB actually is

This topic here explains everything:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=87

[Rob]

Don't be ridiculous.

You 1st.

If you saw them side by side you'd know what I mean.

I'd know which one counter-stopped after a decent scoring run, yes.

[Strider77]

Maybe you don't care if Mars Matrix is upscaled and flickers and looks blurry, because you just wanna play the game, and that's fine, too, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly an acceptable port.

RGB has nothing to with the fact MM looks like garbage compared to the arcade version. S-video, VGA, hell even RF if you could manage it.

It's all that interlacing, scaling, and filtering. If you have played it in the arcade you would see why. Same issues with Mushi on PS2 ect....

All I'm saying is the PCB does look nicer grafix wise.

[CIT]

Don't be ridiculous.

You 1st.

I'm not being ridiculous, I actually know what I'm talking about. You don't.

If you saw them side by side you'd know what I mean.

I'd know which one counter-stopped after a decent scoring run, yes.

You'd realize why the DC version looks like shit.

Improving one area, but fucking up another does not make something "better" than the original!

[BrianC]

Insector X for the arcade has cutesey graphics and music. The Genesis port is completely overhauled with awesome music and redrawn character sprites that are much more serious looking.

It's not a port but a completely different game. Hot-B just bought the Insector-X licence from Taito and then ran with it.

It's not a completely different game. It shares similar level themes and some enemies are re-designed versions of the enemies from the original.

You'd realize why the DC version looks like shit.

Improving one area, but fucking up another does not make something "better" than the original!

The improvements in MM are not minor. Control and scoring are every bit as major as perfect graphics, probably more so. The graphics of the DC MM are imperfect, but they do not in any way break the game. Some of us have seen a perfect display, understand why it's better, but still play on an imperfect one. Why? I for one go by all aspects of the games and feel that the games still play well despite not being on a perfect display.

[Rob]

I'm not being ridiculous, I actually know what I'm talking about. You don't.

ffs, what a poor ass troll.

[CIT]

It's not a completely different game. It shares similar level themes and some enemies are re-designed versions of the enemies from the original.

That's enough to make it completely different in my book. Either way, you can't say it's a port anymore.

[sideshow]

It's not a completely different game. It shares similar level themes and some enemies are re-designed versions of the enemies from the original.

That's enough to make it completely different in my book. Either way, you can't say it's a port anymore.

Even though both are different, the Genesis version is far more superior.

[BrianC]

It's not a completely different game. It shares similar level themes and some enemies are re-designed versions of the enemies from the original.

That's enough to make it completely different in my book. Either way, you can't say it's a port anymore.

Whatever it is, it's still based on the Insector X arcade game. The graphics and sound got a major overhaul, but the level design is not all new.

Here are some pages with screens:
http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=8194
http://www.mobygames.com/game/genesis/i ... creenshots

You need component in on a non-HDTV for it to "look right". (about RGB to component for Saturn) If it's HD, the signal will be molested like an alter boy.

yeah, I know what you mean. I tried R-Types and Xevious 3D/G+ on the HD TV with PS2 component and I got a messed up half screen that wouldn't refresh right. On the TV in my room, a SD-TV, they work great with component. Also, on the HD-TV, it seems that is upscaling for anything under 480i. Native PS2 games with 480i default look pretty good on it, since it supports 480i though.

[Fighter17]

About Mars Matrix, I prefer the quality on the Mars Matrix port than the Mushi port on the PS2.

[GaijinPunch]

And I don't understand how RGB is the bare minimum for gaming. It makes good things look better, but come on. There isn't much wrong with S-Video and it's perfectly playable.

I never said it was the bare minimum. Nobody did. And the thread isn't about perfectly playable. Ports are a technical feat, and to analyze anything technical, you have to look at detail.

S-Video is fine is you don't have RGB. If Composite is a 0 and RGB is a 10, S-Video is a 4 at best.

Contender for stupid post of the year 2008.

Indeed, but as he's in the UK, if he's got a CRT he probably does have it.

[bcass]

Has anyone mentioned Gradius II for the PC-Engine (Super CD-ROM²)? This port has extra stages, an additional intro, and superior sound to the arcade original (remastered using Roland Sound Space (RSS)).

[CIT]

I'm not being ridiculous, I actually know what I'm talking about. You don't.

ffs, what a poor ass troll.

I'm just stating facts in this thread. Just because you can't deal with them I'm a troll? Okay, fine.

Trying to talk reasonably about Mars Matrix with you is a little bit like attempting to do the same with Fighter17 and gay marriage.

[CIT]

The improvements in MM are not minor. Control and scoring are every bit as major as perfect graphics, probably more so. The graphics of the DC MM are imperfect, but they do not in any way break the game. Some of us have seen a perfect display, understand why it's better, but still play on an imperfect one. Why? I for one go by all aspects of the games and feel that the games still play well despite not being on a perfect display.

Well, I never said DC MM is an unplayable mess.

All I'm saying is, it is not "better" than the arcade version, because despite its improvements in one area it manages to screw up in another.

For the port to be better, it would have to a) include everything that was already good about the PCB, and b) include some improvements/extras.
DC MM however doesn't live up to standard a.

[FIL]

huh huh "ass troll"

[Rob]

I'm just stating facts in this thread.

You're stating your exaggerated preference for a slight increase in graphics quality while knowing nothing about or having no appreciation for playing the game. Recap dupe account? A counter stop any serious player could reach makes the game inferior, plain and simple.

Anything more than

an unplayable mess

makes the DC version better. That is not the only thing and all things are not equal. What kind of retard thinks brighter colors is enough to keep game fixing improvements from making one thing better than another? People like you are why discussions get so tedious and lame around here. It's not all about your special monitor.

[Rob]

Ports are a technical feat, and to analyze anything technical, you have to look at detail.

Yeah, that's fine - list the graphics "problems" as they are, exactly. One minor drawback, multiple improvements. I'm sure you're reasonable enough to think it's not the only thing that matters or that it's that severe. It's ridiculous.

[GaijinPunch]

It's not minor or "slight". It's horrible. Clearly it doesn't bother you playing it on your TV. For those of us that have splurged to relive the arcade experience as much as is possible, it's peanut riddled turd.