ports that are better than the arcade originals

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:41 pm

GaijinPunch : Whats your point?

nem · Post by **nem** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:02 pm

His point is that you're spouting nonsense.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:58 pm

well, I did make a bold statement on purpose...

I guess the main point is that the goal of ports is always to be as close as possible to the original...by definition a perfect port would not enhance gameplay but reproduce it perfectly.

my intentions were to start a healthy debate, not to convince anyone of how right i was...sorry if it came out this way

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:50 pm

If the main goal was to reproduce the arcade original perfectly, things like fixed bugs, enhanced music/visuals, and added content would not be made even in theory. Because you just can't make something that's already perfect even better by spending extra effort.

Thus, I think it's being done that way because the main goal of porting teams is to try polishing/refining the arcade version further, be it due to hardware, or any other restrictions the original developers had to put up with when developing the original.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:09 am

Only sort of on topic since it's a tube shooter, but everybody's always saying how much better Gyruss is on NES than the arcade game.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:39 am

nimitz wrote:well, I did make a bold statement on purpose...

You stated a false statement. ESPGaluda is displayed in 240p, not 480i. That's what I was getting at. It's been said time and time again: ESPGaluda is what all ports should strive to be.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:14 am

szycag wrote:Only sort of on topic since it's a tube shooter, but everybody's always saying how much better Gyruss is on NES than the arcade game.

For szycag,

I'm for the original Konami/Centuri arcade version of Gyruss. When I first got the USA Ultra label version of Gyruss for the NES back in the late 1980's, I was expecting a fairly decent arcade port of Gyruss but got something that fairly resembles Gyruss with end-stage bosses thrown in for flavor. Really not my cup of tea despite paying close to $30.00 USD + tax back in the day. ^_~

I was pleasantly suprised to play the Gyruss arcade port on the GBA SP of Konami's Arcade Advance series + the PSX Konami Collection redention of arcade port Gyruss is ace in my book. This should've been done on the NES in the first place...oh well. Better late than never..... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:19 am

If the main goal was to reproduce the arcade original perfectly, things like fixed bugs, enhanced music/visuals, and added content would not be made even in theory. Because you just can't make something that's already perfect even better by spending extra effort.

I think the main reason for these enhacements is to make people buy the ports even if they have played the original a lot. Just like fighting games ports often include training modes/bonus characters, it doesnt make the actual gamplay better but it adds to the value of the port.

You stated a false statement. ESPGaluda is displayed in 240p, not 480i. That's what I was getting at. It's been said time and time again: ESPGaluda is what all ports should strive to be.

In order to output 320x240 the ps2 uses interlacing(I don't know much more than that though). About the quality of the port I said earlier [[For Galuda I have no idea (never played) but you seem to say it is "as good" which is possible]]

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:37 am

In order to output 320x240 the ps2 uses interlacing(I don't know much more than that though).

No it doesn't. That would be 240i mode which AFAIK, doesn't exist. Not on a consumer product, anyway. Please quit stating bullshit as fact.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:12 pm

well I didn't just make that out of thin air...do you have anything to back up your claims?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:21 pm

nimitz wrote:do you have anything to back up your claims?

Do you have anything to back up yours?

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:12 pm

nimitz wrote:well I didn't just make that out of thin air...

Then where did you get that information? Did aliens beam it into your haed, or maybe god? If you claim something exists, then it is up to you to prove it does, not for others to disprove it. Negative proof is a logical fallacy.

Of course GP is right, there is no 240i. Lo-res isn't interlaced.

GaijinPunch wrote:Please quit stating bullshit as fact.

Very good advice!

djvinc · Post by **djvinc** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:25 pm

240i doesn't exist : I confirm, this would be 7-8kHz instead of 15kHz, and this is not compatible with TVs.

The 240p/480i difference can also be seen on the Bemani ports : early ones were 240p and late ones are 480i. For example take BeatmaniaIIDX 8th and 9th.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:49 pm

The 240p/480i difference can also be seen on the Bemani ports :

ESPGaluda as well. TATE is 240p...no two ways around it.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:43 pm

I have a rare 240i galuda PCB if anyone is interested.... it looks amazing in 240i.

I'm Alec · Post by **I'm Alec** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:04 pm

Hyper Duel and Mars Matrix certainly. Also arguably Batsugun and Battle Garegga since I really prefer the arranged soundtracks.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:42 pm

Mars Matrix

Cocked up display... big time. PCB >= MAME > Pieces of shit w/ peanuts & corn in them > DC version

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:33 am

GaijinPunch wrote: Cocked up display... big time.

lol, what?

sideshow · Post by **sideshow** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:35 am

Is ESPGaluda the only PS2 shmup that supports 240P?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:11 am

Rob wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote: Cocked up display... big time.
lol, what?

Interlaced/filtered... and even stretched if memory serves.
Something tells me that CPS2's goofy pixel size has something to do w/ it, as none(?) of the CPS2 ports support 240p.

Is ESPGaluda the only PS2 shmup that supports 240P?

DOJ, Thundercross 2.

None of the Psikyo packs or Taito Memories games do. Can't recall any other 2D shooters on the system.

sideshow · Post by **sideshow** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:51 am

I thought only the original Thundercross was released for the PS2.

dai jou bu · Post by **dai jou bu** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:03 am

GunSpike wrote:
Yes, Senko on 360 does have better graphics, and the extra costumes don't hurt!

I can confirm this as well, except the animations are somewhat borked in the home port!

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:07 am

GaijinPunch wrote: even stretched if memory serves.

You can change that.

DC MM is the definitive version of the game. It's one of very few games that really deserve to be mentioned in this thread, for something other than trivial bonuses (and it has plenty of those too).

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:44 am

Rob wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote: even stretched if memory serves.
You can change that.

Why would it be like that by default?

DC MM is the definitive version of the game.

If I had the definitive bowl of corn flakes with a little shit flake in them, I still wouldn't eat them. For anyone w/ a proper RGB monitor, that shit flake is expanded to a nice sized nugget.

It's one of very few games that really deserve to be mentioned in this thread,

This thread is about ports that are better than their originals. The bonuses are just that, bonuses. I can't agree that the port is better than the original when MAME gives a truer experience than the port.

for something other than trivial bonuses (and it has plenty of those too).

What extras it has are good, I'll give it that. It's still tainted though.

Goshi · Post by **Goshi** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:15 am

(and unlike in a Cave game, taking the slowdown out of Ikaruga doesn't harm the gameplay)

whut

Battlesmurf · Post by **Battlesmurf** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:55 am

Pieces of shit w/ peanuts & corn in them

If I had the definitive bowl corn flakes with a little shit flake in them, I still wouldn't eat them. For anyone w/ a proper RGB monitor, that shit flake is expanded to a nice sized nugget.

Yummmmmm

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:28 am

GaijinPunch wrote: Why would it be like that by default?

So there isn't as much empty space.

If I had the definitive bowl corn flakes with a little shit flake in them, I still wouldn't eat them. For anyone w/ a proper RGB monitor, that shit flake is expanded to a nice sized nugget.

Dude, can you manage to post with just a little more class? I mean, just a little. I get it, you have a proper RGB monitor.

That out of the way, as a person playing on a television, I don't notice a difference between DC and MAME.

Post by **system11** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:49 am

Not a shmup, but Bloody Wolf was better on the PCE. I think they added extra sections, but the big win was music that for once was FAR better than the arcade.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:55 am

Re: Mars Matrix

Both the original and the DC port have their problems.

The DC port has the advantage that you can't stop the counter anymore - good for high scoring MM players!

However the DC port has the distinct disadvantage that the display is upscaled to 480i and filtered and will make your eyez burnz in hell. Of course you can play in VGA, but only if you're a fan of lots of REALLY BLOCKY PIXÖLZ!

Bottom line: No, the DC port is not better. Both versions of MM suck. It's a lose/lose situation.

Rob wrote: That out of the way, as a person playing on a television, I don't notice a difference between DC and MAME.

I guess you're one of those people that never turn scanlines on when playing MAME?

GaijinPunch wrote:
Is ESPGaluda the only PS2 shmup that supports 240P?
DOJ, Thundercross 2.

None of the Psikyo packs or Taito Memories games do. Can't recall any other 2D shooters on the system.

Shienryu and Gunbird 1&2 support 240p as well.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:20 pm

CIT wrote: I guess you're one of those people that never turn scanlines on when playing MAME?

Here's what I do: click MAME, select ROM, play it.