So.. I'm new to Shmups. Any advice?

[neist]

Recently, after purchasing Omega Five on XBLA, I realized how much I love shmups. Though I haven't played one in years, they used to be my favorite genre of video game back in the late 80's in my younger years. After I spent hours and hours playing Omega Five, I came to the conclusion that I need to reinvest my interest.

So.. I had to decide, "Where do I start?" I had a third party NES remake console so I hopped over to a local GameXchange and picked up all of their available Shmups. Aside for that, I'm not entirely sure where to start. There seems to be literally thousands of schmups out there, and besides for the few titles that seem to really pop (Ikaruga seems highly praised), I really not sure what I should hunt down. I really want to start a modest collection.

This is why I came and registered at these forums. Hopefully seeking some solid advice. But first some background...

The current systems I own are as following:
NES/Famicon Hybrid
SNES/Super Famicon Hybrid
Xbox 360
Xbox
US PS2
US N64
US Nintendo DS
US Sony PSP

Suggested Shmups will have to probably be on one of these systems. I may be able to pick up another system, but it wont be anything crazy hard to find like a Japanese Saturn.

Does anyone have any solid suggestions? I can make some obvious choices and their respective series (like Gradius, R-Type, etc.), but I'm not sure about specifics on games I probably have not heard of. I'd just buy up a huge lot of games, but unfortunately I'm not quite that rich.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.[/u]

[moozooh]

Good thread.
Another good thread.

[Erinu]

I recommend starting off on Dodonpachi Daioujou, then you can work towards harder shmups like Shienryu.

[clp]

I recommend starting off on Dodonpachi Daioujou, then you can work towards harder shmups like Shienryu.

DDP daioujou is pretty hardcore, i reckon ibara arrange mode is a good place to start .

[neist]

Good thread.
Another good thread.

Oh god thank you. I tried using search tools and they weren't all that fruitful.

As for a game being too hardcore, I'm not really too worried. Though I haven't played too many in years, my twitch skills are fairly sharp due to other game playing. After memorizing the paths, Omega Five wasnt too hard (which some people are crying crazy hard).

To be completely honest I'd rather have harder games anyway. Its better to work through the frustration.

Thanks for the help so far. ^^

[MX7]

Samurai Zombie Nation for the NES is widely considered to be a pinacle of the genre.

[Kiken]

I may be able to pick up another system, but it wont be anything crazy hard to find like a Japanese Saturn.

Japanese Saturns are piss easy to find.

[djvinc]

Let's just summarize and say that there are 2 main genres around :

- old-school shooters with fast, relatively few homing bullets
- recent shooters with a shitload of slow bullets and complex patterns, which end up exploding and transforming into bonuses

You probably need to discover the 2nd genre, and see which one you prefer

[evil_ash_xero]

Have you heard of MAME? If you download that, you can play some of the best shmups known to man...for free.
Also, if you don't have any modified systems, or swap-magic, you're kinda limiting yourself with recent shooters too.
But, i'll always have to say "BUY GRADIUS V'. Hey, it made it to the U.S., and it's great.

s/m

[kengou]

I would say, get Gradus V, Ikaruga, and/or maybe Castle Shikigami II. They're all pretty different, and probably pretty cheap.

Aside from that, I definitely recommend MAME. Some of the best games of all time, like Dodonpachi for example, play perfectly on your computer for free.

[evil_ash_xero]

http://mame32fx.altervista.org/

This is the one I prefer to use. I can't tell you where to get the games, but it's easy as pie to find them.

Oh and yeah, Ikaruga is going to be XBLA soon, and that's one of the best.

s/m

[djvinc]

(just a hint : you can play games on Mame for free _and_ violate author's rights at the same time if you don't own the original games. At least you can try them for a while, which surely doesn't hurt much)

[evil_ash_xero]

I think piracy does hurt things, but I really don't see the harm in MAME. I mean, who's making money of old shmups anyway? I don't know of any Cave or Raizing packages being released anytime soon. Or on XBLA or VC.

And if they did release them, i'm sure most hardcore shmup fans, who play these on MAME would probably pick them up TOO. So, I don't see the problem.

Hell, i've bought a LOT more games because of MAME, because I got to try them out and saw if they were worthwhile or not. I doubt anyone is losing money on the MAME Shmup scene.

s/m

[neist]

Well, unfortunately I don't Emulate. At all. I really have no hard feelings for anyone who does, but I just prefer to build up my physical collection over other digital means. I've always been that way with games and I doubt it will change now.

I dont think I've had an emulator since like.. 98.

Let's just summarize and say that there are 2 main genres around :

- old-school shooters with fast, relatively few homing bullets
- recent shooters with a shitload of slow bullets and complex patterns, which end up exploding and transforming into bonuses

You probably need to discover the 2nd genre, and see which one you prefer

This is a pretty good distinction. I think I'm part of the first kind, though I cant tell for sure. I've seen videos (though havent played) the second type and they seem more formulaic than anything. In my mind, the ideal game would be something like classic games, only faster. Much faster. A lot of classic games are painfully slow.

Any good sources of information on either? Or is it a "word of mouth" sort of thing?

I may be able to pick up another system, but it wont be anything crazy hard to find like a Japanese Saturn.

Japanese Saturns are piss easy to find.

Really? I saw some on ebay, but there really wasnt all that many. Shipping is kind of insane as well. I wouldnt be all that convinced not to get one this way, but the system as well as a few games can easily hit over $200 fairly quickly. I mean, I can get Ikaruga for GameCube for around 100, or just wait for the XBLA version. Are the saturn games really that much better? The top 25 shmup list has an awful lot of games on the Saturn.

I would say, get Gradus V, Ikaruga, and/or maybe Castle Shikigami II. They're all pretty different, and probably pretty cheap.

Aside from that, I definitely recommend MAME. Some of the best games of all time, like Dodonpachi for example, play perfectly on your computer for free.

This sounds like good suggestions! I checked prices on Gradius V and ebay has it for under 30 bucks. Woo. Ikaruga is fairly expensive, but videos are pretty awe inspiring. Castle Shikigami II I hadnt heard of, but I'll look into it.

Again, thanks for your help everyone.

[evil_ash_xero]

Well, unfortunately I don't Emulate. At all. I really have no hard feelings for anyone who does, but I just prefer to build up my physical collection over other digital means. I've always been that way with games and I doubt it will change now.

That's cool and all, it's just that you will not be able to play some seriously amazing shmups in any other form(unless you buy PCBs).
Guwange, ESP Ra.De, Progear No Arishi, Dimahoo, Battle Bakraid etc..

As for the Japanese Saturn, you can get some of the all-time best like Battle Garegga, Soukyugurentai, Layer Section, and Radiant Silvergun. However, I can't recommend RS because it costs SO MUCH. Ikaruga was the follow-up to RS, so it's pretty awesome also. Gradius V was the follow up to Ikaruga, although they aren't similar at all.

s/m

[spadgy]

I was in your situation a few years back, in that I loved shmups as a youngster, but it was years later that I suddenly realised how enormous and complex the genre was, and just how much I really wanted to really loose myself in it.

I found Ikaruga, Gradius V and then Dodonpachi DOJ great starting points. You'd need a Jap or US Dreamcast, or a Gamecube to play Ikaruga, but a DC is easy to find and a great system for quality shmups. In fact, an essential system you might say, so that could be the next to pick up.

My other advice is get saving!

And though many discredit playing with a console arcade stick, I love using one, and it means playing in actual arcades is a lot more rewarding, so maybe pick one up before you get too used to a pad. I actually find switching between the two control inputs very easy...

[unsane]

I think I'm part of the first kind, though I cant tell for sure. I've seen videos (though havent played) the second type and they seem more formulaic than anything. In my mind, the ideal game would be something like classic games, only faster. Much faster. A lot of classic games are painfully slow.

Sounds like you might like Psikyo and perhaps Seibu Kaihatsu (developers not games). Some of their most popular:

Gunbird 2 - PS2
Dragon Blaze - PS2
Strikers 1945 II - PS2
Raiden DX - PS1

You definitely need to give the bullet hell genre a try though, it's pretty crazy. DoDonPachi (PS1) or one of its brothers would be the obvious choice.

(Also keep in mind i'm assuming the above games run on a US PS2, someone please speak up if that's wrong.)



Sidenote on MAME - i love how every time someone mentions it there's the token "omgpiracy" thread hijack, followed by the explanation that it doesn't hurt anyone. Pure fkin comedy.

[Zebra Airforce]

Raiden Fighters Jet is the ultimate fast shooter.

[unsane]

Raiden Fighters Jet is the ultimate fast shooter.

Agreed, except it's not on any system he has (edit: it's only on arcade/mame). Though it looks to be on the way to XBox some day.

[szycag]

If you're opposed to MAME, burning Dreamcast games, PCBs, having to import stuff, I'd get a Genesis. You can score Thunderforce III and IV (Lightening Force) for 15 to 20 dollars usually, and those games have both stood the test of time, the top 25 list on this forum of the last four years proves that. You'll most likely want them. They are the memorizer style like Gradius or R-Type, but play much faster. It sounds like something you would want.

Thing is you said you like collecting, and a lot of the best Genesis shmups wouldn't set you back very much at all, especially if you don't mind getting just the cart and not the box/instructions. While some can be kinda rare they never seem to go for much when they do pop up, stuff like Fire Shark etc.

What you're going to find though, is that this genre thrived in the arcades. You're cheating yourself by not being willing to play MAME, I hate to say. It's your only ticket to play stuff like Armed Police Batrider, etc...

[Mega Mudkip]

I recommend anything that is similar to R-Type
Pulstar, Rezon, Last Resort, Katakis, X-Multiply, and Z-Out are all pretty damn epic.

[PROMETHEUS]

Sidenote on MAME - i love how every time someone mentions it there's the token "omgpiracy" thread hijack, followed by the explanation that it doesn't hurt anyone. Pure fkin comedy.

no kidding :/

[spadgy]

Sidenote on MAME - i love how every time someone mentions it there's the token "omgpiracy" thread hijack, followed by the explanation that it doesn't hurt anyone. Pure fkin comedy.

no kidding :/

Got to admit, I was one of those people not that long ago, but Prometheus and Elvis in particular have done a very good job of making me see a considered and sensible argument in support of MAME. I still don't use it myself as I have enough to be playing, but I now totally see the fact that MAME has every right to exist alongside retail, arcade and homebrew gaming, and has plenty to contribute to the upkeep of our beloved scene...

While I might have been wrong to discredit MAME, I'm glad that I'm not to narrow-minded to admit I was wrong...

[Arvandor]

Cho Ren Sha 68k is free and excellent. I highly suggest finding a download and giving it a whirl.

[Strider77]

you should buy legion on pc engine.... it is amazing.

[cool.sammy]

you should buy legion on pc engine.... it is amazing.

Legion is worthwhile but only because of the silly redbook monologues! The actual game is terrible :\

If you want to talk about PC engine shooters (I've got quite a few o_o) I have to say... The kaneko carnival ones are great (kind of expensive depending on where you get em..), the star soldier series (Especially Soldier Blade), and Star Parodier (It's a bit easy but very colourful and entertaining!)

Oh and also lords/winds of thunder and gates of thunder... Mr Heli is pretty fun sometimes... Really it's quite the little console.

[ColecoVisionist]

Gun.Smoke for the NES is a lot of fun.

[neist]

Thanks for your suggestions everyone. I think I've decided which direction I want to go. I think I'm going to buy me a Dreamcast. After youtubing a lot of videos of different shmups, I've spent the last few days reducing which ones seem more interesting to me. Luckily, a rather large chunk of those are for the US Dreamcast. I figure I can pick up a Dreamcast at a secondhand store or online for reasonably cheap, and I always have the option of finding a DC-X later on to play some import games.

Unsane suggsted some developers in an earlier post, and I think he has an idea of what I'm looking for. All of those look incredibly fun.

Until all my purchases slowly trickle in, I'll just have to settle with Parsec47 for now, which I'm having a blast with.

[320x240]

Someone may have said something like this already but the best way to get back into shmups is to find one game that you like and concentrate on that for a while. Any progress made in that game will, to a certain degree, carry over into other games and make them easier to get into. That's what I have found anyway.

I second Cho Ren Cha as a game to download. It's the game I'm using to get back into the loop.

You can find it here:

http://www2.tky.3web.ne.jp/~yosshin/my_ ... nload.html

[ROBOTRON]

you should buy legion on pc engine.... it is amazing.

You need a TG16 period...can you get a hold of one? It cover basic shmup fancies without "million bullet" shooters turning you off the genre right away.

I've tried getting friends into shmups, but they try to start off with titles like Mushihime-sama and get turned away because of "the screens too busy" excuse.