Twiddle wrote:.99 is when they boff up Cave games, which doesn't matter to me.
.103 it is!
It's like this, MAME is an evolving project, eventually all will be good.
Just now they're having a bug'a thon. Instead of complaining get onto
the testing board and submit your bugs.
Dandy J wrote:Really?! I've never seen a game that reacted on the first step. I do think that some games have 1 frame of input lag hard-coded into the game for different reasons.
Mega Man 1 for NES reacted on the first frame (subsequent versions had a frame of input lag added). Some of the newer console games (say, GBA games) have up to 3-4 frames of input lag no matter what the emulator is! And Genesis, IIRC, always has a frame of input lag due to its frame buffer.
Matskat wrote:This neighborhood USED to be nice...until that family of emulators moved in across the street....
jpj wrote:i 'rediscovered' mame a few weeks back, thinking it must be better than it was 10 years ago. downloaded 3 toaplan games thinking if i enjoy them, i can start looking at buying the pcb's. all three games had no sound. great
Not a MAME fault, the sound chip on these Toaplan games are protected and need to be decapped. Now is a good time to donate:
Maybe he kept them all factory sealed because even unwrapping a PAL DC game is sometimes enough to make the brittle case explode into a thousand shards of plastic.
How come it's only the PCB owners in this thread who are saying MAME is wank?
How come you aren't reading people's posts?
I am, and it seems that a lot of the people dissing MAME are the PCB owners. Also, the Toaplan games are the exception, rather than the rule with regards to no sound being present. I played a lot of arcade games back in the 80s/90s and the PC arcade emulators give a pretty damned accurate representation of the real thing. People claiming MAME to be 'wank' clearly haven't played it on a proper setup (decent PC/decent stick).
PC graphics cards don't output an RGB signal that most CRTs can handle, so S-Video would be the closest to that. Most PC graphics cards have an S-Video out.
I am, and it seems that a lot of the people dissing MAME are the PCB owners.
rtw and myself just said we devote time (and resources in his case) to MAME, and are also both known to spend stupid amounts on PCBs. In fact, I think sven is the only person that openly said he doesn't bother with MAME, but with all those PCBs and a couple of cabs in my house, I doubt I would either.
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
bcass wrote:I am, and it seems that a lot of the people dissing MAME are the PCB owners.
Maybe its because PCB owners can compare side by side with Mame? Not sure if you have seen my mame setup but its as close as I can get to the real deal. Actually I have a thread in the hardware section to try and get the video emulation as perfect as possible under linux (still working on this one as my spare time is limited). So these arguments about PCB owners dissing mame, or not putting in enough time in mame are ridiculous. I have plenty of cabs and PCBs and still use mame for savestate practice. Its just comparing them side by side that I can obviously see that emulation is not yet perfect.
BTW: I would not sell my Ketsui or could care less about the financial impact of emulation to my PCB collection. I contributed money to the ketsui dump!
Just use frame-step. Pause the game, hold a direction. Then use the frame-step key (I think it's Ctrl+P in MAME?). If you move on the second step, there's no input lag (every game has 1 frame of 'input lag', MAME or not). Anything past that is additional, usually because of the game driver or w/e.
GaijinPunch wrote:rtw and myself just said we devote time (and resources in his case) to MAME, and are also both known to spend stupid amounts on PCBs. In fact, I think sven is the only person that openly said he doesn't bother with MAME, but with all those PCBs and a couple of cabs in my house, I doubt I would either.
I probably only read the first page of the thread before replying, but it does seem that whenever this issue comes up, a certain vocal minority seem to dismiss MAME (and other arcade emulators) out of hand.
As I said, I used to play a lot of coin-ops in the 80s/90s, a good number of them I completed (so I know them inside out), and having played them again in MAME, I can not normally detect any differences. I know that not everything is perfectly emulated, but the vast majority it does emulate it does very well indeed. I think a lot of it is psychological. If you're sat in front of a PC and a montior, then of course it isn't going to feel like when you stand at a cab and a large CRT. You'd be amazed at how the experience can be transformed by hooking up your PC to a CRT and using a decent stick (or your joypad of choice).
In fact, I think sven is the only person that openly said he doesn't bother with MAME, but with all those PCBs and a couple of cabs in my house, I doubt I would either.
I don't bother with MAMa at all, but I don't dismiss it at all. I've just got enough shmups to play without needing to have access to more that don't cost a penny (aside from generous dump donations etc.). Otherwise I really would waste every hour of my life! Including console shmups that is; I only have a handful of PCBs. A slowly growing handful
I just wouldn't have the self-control to resist all that MAME offers, so I exert a little self control in refusing to use MAME...
Geezer wrote:Does anyone think Arika/Cave will object to the game being emulated and ask for it to be removed from MAME?
I'm pretty sure they would object. After all, why did they put so much protection on the board? And if they really didn't care, then why doesn't someone just email Cave and ask how to break the encryption? Because it would be futile, that's why.
Geezer wrote:Does anyone think Arika/Cave will object to the game being emulated and ask for it to be removed from MAME?
I don't see why Cave would object. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but they're not printing the boards anymore, so obviously not making cash off the actual game anymore.
This thread is going pretty offtopic about the whole PCB vs MAME thing. I'm sure that some games play identical on a proper setup than they do with a PCB, but in many cases the rom has flaws. It really comes down to the game, and it's hard to say how good Ketsui will run when it's dumped. I'm sure some people will sell their PCBs if it gets emulated perfectly, it's only natural. Most probably won't though.
don't see why Cave would object. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but they're not printing the boards anymore, so obviously not making cash off the actual game anymore.
They never printed anything. AMI did. Technically, they own the rights, and someone might come in some day, and want to port it to some machine. Just b/c something is out of print doesn't mean it still can't make money some how. Look at how much money Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, and Taito have made the last gen off of games they "aren't printing anymore". Most of the times they were shit ports or crappily emulated as well.
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
don't see why Cave would object. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but they're not printing the boards anymore, so obviously not making cash off the actual game anymore.
They never printed anything. AMI did. Technically, they own the rights, and someone might come in some day, and want to port it to some machine. Just b/c something is out of print doesn't mean it still can't make money some how. Look at how much money Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, and Taito have made the last gen off of games they "aren't printing anymore". Most of the times they were shit ports or crappily emulated as well.
Is that what AMI do; the actually printing and assembly of the boards? I always wondered, and had kind of guessed they did the arcade game equivalent of publishing.
With regards to one of our favourite arguments, it's pretty obvious we're never going to finish this MAME vs PCB thing. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree!
Does anyone think Arika/Cave will object to the game being emulated and ask for it to be removed from MAME?
I think everyone should just ignore them till they port it themselves.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
MAMEDev won't ignore them, just like they didn't ignore Arika with TGM2, and just like they didn't ignore Cave with DDPDOJ.
<BEOWOOF> my lifes like battle garegga every time i kill man life becomes harder and the only solution to making things easier is killing ymself.
<SCRUNBABBY> my lifes like gwangs
<SCRUNBABBY> cause .. theres lots of wangs
then someone else with an emulator should ignore them.... thanks for the needless history lesson btw.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
Is that what AMI do; the actually printing and assembly of the boards?
Probably not. They are simply the publisher. The carry the risk. Basically, Cave are paid by AMI, most likely a flat fee and possibly some type of sales based bonus. If the game sells like shit (Ibara), Cave still make their dough, but AMI loses. For the actual pressing, programming, etc., I'm sure they just hire some specialized company to do it.
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
I buy shooters because I like a good challenge, but also the artistic approach as well.
If I see something running on MAME, its a copy. If I have the PCB, I feel like an art collector. Hmm, don't know if I'm explaining it too well. Think of it this way, you can buy a $5 watch by timex, or you can pay $1000 for a Grand father clock, they both tell the time. But its your choice if you want something important to you to come in a big or small package.
I dunno, there is something about the engineering of a product and how it works, and how it was the best when it came out. And it has a certain value to it if you know what you hold in your hands once went through some hands affiliated with the said product.
A Van Gogh painting is probably worth alot just because he touched it.. Touching is good.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
Is that what AMI do; the actually printing and assembly of the boards?
Probably not. They are simply the publisher. The carry the risk. Basically, Cave are paid by AMI, most likely a flat fee and possibly some type of sales based bonus. If the game sells like shit (Ibara), Cave still make their dough, but AMI loses. For the actual pressing, programming, etc., I'm sure they just hire some specialized company to do it.
If AMI were a true publisher, wouldn't it say Copyright Cave/AMI on the title screen or the POP instead of Copyright Cave (as all Cave/AMI games do)? For example, Nintendo publishes a lot of stuff they didn't develop internally, but it always says "Copyright Nintendo". It doesn't look like AMI owns any copyright on the Cave games they distribute and sell.
Is that what AMI do; the actually printing and assembly of the boards?
Probably not. They are simply the publisher. The carry the risk. Basically, Cave are paid by AMI, most likely a flat fee and possibly some type of sales based bonus. If the game sells like shit (Ibara), Cave still make their dough, but AMI loses. For the actual pressing, programming, etc., I'm sure they just hire some specialized company to do it.
If AMI were a true publisher, wouldn't it say Copyright Cave/AMI on the title screen or the POP instead of Copyright Cave (as all Cave/AMI games do)? For example, Nintendo publishes a lot of stuff they didn't develop internally, but it always says "Copyright Nintendo". It doesn't look like AMI owns any copyright on the Cave games they distribute and sell.
Not necessarily Publishing agreements do not have to involve any transfer of copyright. It's certainly rare-ish in the gaming software world for someone to publish without getting a chunk of the rights, but it does happen. In the case of Cave/AMI it's hard to really know what's going on; it could be something like GP said, or it could be that AMI provides certain distribution and engineering services for a cut of the profits, or it could just mean they're all friends and this is some elaborate tax dodge.
