Seriously, who is going to beat CAVE?

[shoe-sama]

translation: touhou games r liek giga wing ewwwww

[Twiddle]

giga wing has explosions though

[shoe-sama]

excellent point

[Rob]

Treasure games are generally of a much higher caliber than Cave games.

Treasure isn't any better than Skonec or G.Rev, not to criticize either. Now you know.

[-Bridget-]

At least every time Cave makes new game it's somewhat original. Zun's games on the other hand are just same slow circular patterns over and over and over. They even LOOK the same.

You really don't know what you're talking about, haven't played the games much, and just come off as plain dumb.

Each touhou game has a different scoring system, different characters, different enemies, although they're reminiscent of the previous games, they are essentially sequels.

Comparing the difficulty of EoSD to IN is just laughable. Comparing a game that you can see your hitbox in and enemy marker over a game which you can't is also laughable. And most certainly saying that the games are slow means you're not playing on a challenging difficulty.

This kind of inane response needs not a follow-up, because you're bound to come up with some other bullshit that declares that Cave R Superior. They're not. And they haven't been doin' shit since 2006.

If you're so smart, go see how long you last in Hard or Lunatic modes of some of his games. You won't last long, and the bullets ARE fast, and are appropriately slow when needed, yet still difficult. Unless you want impossible bullshit with a constant speed like stage 5 Mushihimesama Futari, that's fine! Go enjoy your $900 game and few hundred dollar supergun.

Irrelevant. Best you avoid something you can't handle.

he makes the touhou game series

there are two kinds of touhou fan

the first kind just plays the games and wishes the second group would go away

the second kind jerks off to the character designs in any way imaginable without actually playing the games at all and makes fun of the first group for wasting their time

I really fucking hate this. People liking fan-related material of touhou and noy actually playing or knowing of the games. IOSYS made them pretty popular with the flashes, and /a/ has made Cirno into a meme, but they're not usually liked for the games themselves. It's annoying as fuck considering it'd be identical to enjoying the purchase of a game without actually owning the console, or buying a game for an included art book.

Firstly, no need to be rude about this. WorstPlayer is allowed his own opinion, I do think.


But....

I have to agree with what he's said there.


Yes, I know Zun's games all have different scoring systems.... but honestly, to me, they all have the same FEEL to them. I guess it's hard to explain beyond that. Whereas, if I play Mushihime, and DOJ, they dont feel the same whatsoever to me.

And dont get me wrong: I dont have anything at all against Zun's games. I have a couple of them myself, I do.


But for me, shmupping is all about the challenge.

Even on Lunatic (yes, Lunatic), these arent quite as hard as, say, the evil chaos of Mushi Ultra, or the epic war against Hibachi in DOJ, Death Label (I'll get him yet, I will). Both of which are modes I play constantly and currently.


I play *alot* of shmups, at a fairly high level, so Im not gonna be put off by things like that. Not quite good enough to beat Ultra yet, no, but Im getting there.


And bullets dont have to be "fast" for the game to be hard. DOJ does "fast". Mushi doesnt always do that (Well, in Ultra it does), but it's still crazy.

I think though, for me, there's just something about Zun's overall style (iin terms of bullet pattern design) that just doesnt seem as varied as I'd like. It's not that they arent well made.... cause they are..... but there's just something a bit.... off..... about them. In my opinion, anyway. Not sure how to explain it, but it's there.


Oh, though, I do DEFINITELY agree with the bit you said about the fanart and all that.


That is..... truly stupid, yes.

If I buy a game like this, I buy it for the challenge and the gameplay. Embodiment of Scarlet Devil is the one I currently like most of the Zun games I have (I have about 5 of them right now), and I DONT play it for the girls. These games are entirely about gameplay to me. Granted, good graphics help, but still.... all about the gameplay.


And personally, if I were in Zun's shoes, actually making these, well, yeah, it's nice to get money for these and all, but I'd rather people buy a game I make..... because they like the game, not because of "ZOMG BOOBIES" or some crap like that.


Bah, I say to that.

[Erinu]

... stuff.

You really don't know what you're talking about, haven't played the games much, and just come off as plain dumb.

Each Cave game has a different scoring system, different characters, different enemies, although they're reminiscent of the previous games, they are essentially both sequels and brand-new entities.

Comparing the difficulty of Daioujou to Espgaluda is just laughable. Comparing a game that you can see your hitbox in and the entire screen with over a game which you can't is also laughable. And most certainly saying that the games are slow means you're not playing on a challenging difficulty.

This kind of inane response needs not a follow-up, because you're bound to come up with some other bullshit that declares that ZUN IZ SUPERIOR. He's not. And he hasn't been doin' shit since 2003.

If you're so smart, go see how long you last in Mushi Futari ULTRA or Ketsui or some of their other games. You won't last long, and the bullets ARE fast, and are appropriately slow when needed, yet still difficult. Unless you want "attempted impossibility" like the QED of 495 Years spellcard in EosD, that's fine! Go enjoy your $50 game and masses of related wank material.

Irrelevant. Best you avoid something you can't handle.

C+ for effort, but really, a failed response and pathetic attempt which took you at least half an hour to contribute detrimental content to this thread.

ZUN has been doing a lot since 2003, or perhaps you haven't heard of Mountain of Faith, Imperishable Night, Perfect Cherry Blossom, or Shoot the Bullet, all of which came out since then.

Very few people are prepared to spend $900 on a CAVE PCB and the necessary follow-ups in order to play a single game. Fundamentally it isn't value for money, and only if you continuously play the games iwll you get value for money. Wait, what am I saying, there's no fucking way you're getting value for money by spending $900 on a single game.

CAVE is so inconsiderate of it's fanbase that it isn't prepared to have their titles ported to consoles because they won't profit from it enough. Money talks, tsk tsk tsk. Kinda sad when I think about how many people download ZUN's games, probably unaware that they're actually created and sold with minimal profit.

ZUN games are $20, or technically $18. Not $50. And they provide a bunch of gameplay over CAVE games which are slightly different from one another but they always follow the same traits.

But, hey. Keep hangin' on. Nice wiki-dive, though. Unfortunately ZUN has actively achieved a higher status in Japan over CAVE, which is hilarious considering CAVE is a gaming company, and he isn't. Oh well, like I said, keep hangin' on. You have your barely-existent CAVE fan material, and a couple of games (at MAX) from them a year. Stop acting so butthurt because your favourite franchise is dying. I guess I'd be worried about making my titles easily accessible to the majority of the world by putting their content on a console, if I was grasping at strings.

People who like shmups are in no position to dictate what they can and can't like. The genre is dying, so it's more of a "take what you can get" thing. Beggers cannot be choosers.

[sven666]

The genre is dying, so it's more of a "take what you can get" thing. Beggers cannot be choosers.

actually its blooming like never before.

[Zebra Airforce]

You have your barely-existent CAVE fan material

It's a real shame I can't find more cave-related porn to masturbate to.

a couple of games (at MAX) from them a year

In '07 they released three games. How many did Zun release?

Very few people are prepared to spend $900 on a CAVE PCB and the necessary follow-ups in order to play a single game

That's because it's supposed to be placed in an arcade, where it can easily cover the cost of the purchase.

CAVE is so inconsiderate of it's fanbase that it isn't prepared to have their titles ported to consoles because they won't profit from it enough.

Cave does exactly what their fans want: make arcade games. If you think there are legions of fans outside of japan, begging for releases, you're wrong. Cave's audience are japanese folks who like to stop at the arcade on the way to work or school.

From the sound of things, the only reason you don't like Cave is because they don't try their damndest to make sure you, in all your glory, can play their games. Scorned nerd indeed.

EDIT: Damn Icarus, you one-upped me!

[GaijinPunch]

cave, for example, focuses no effort on porting and localizations just because it won't be profitable.

They are nice to foreigners that show up to their booths, and Fujita even gave free shipping on Mushi Futari:Black Label to foreigner orders as "a gift from Cave". But yeah, they're being nice to the handful of people that care.

What evidence is there of ZUN being a whitey hater?

Treasure isn't any better than Skonec or G.Rev, not to criticize either. Now you know.

Uhmmm... Treasure can be no better than Skonec or G.Rev. When they don't have the budget, their games suck ass, and they're not afraid to put them out. (eg Hippa Linda, Silpheed). When they want to be good, they put out stuff as quality as Cave. Ikaruga and Gradius V are leagues above any other shooter (and in most cases, game) with 3D graphics. Under Defeat & Border Down are great games, but in terms of polish, they are far behind.

Very few people are prepared to spend $900 on a CAVE PCB

But thousands play them daily for 50 or 100 yen.

Wait, what am I saying, there's no fucking way you're getting value for money by spending $900 on a single game.

The second part of the show was a little Q&A with the 5 players featured in the Mushihime-sama Futari DVD. They are ISO, TAC, NAL, Yusemi SWY, and K.K. They were asked quite a few questions via the questionnaire cards out on the floor. Some points of interest were how much money they spent on the game to attain their skill. ISO & TAC said they spent about 50,000 yen the first month it was out (I'm assuming v1.5, but can't remember). NAL said he tried to do it in under 20,000 a month, but went way over. Yusemi spent a whopping 150,000 yen the first month! He also said though, that every time he played, he played it through to the end (continuing even) to learn the harder patterns. So, that obviously got expensive.

source

CAVE is so inconsiderate of it's fanbase that it isn't prepared to have their titles ported to consoles because they won't profit from it enough.

Those bastards. How dare they not throw away money! Intelligent posts as usual, Erinu. My hat goes off to you.

Unfortunately ZUN has actively achieved a higher status in Japan over CAVE,

Wow, you've even topped yourself.

No he hasn't.

[Icarus]

C+ for effort, but really, a failed response and pathetic attempt which took you at least half an hour to contribute detrimental content to this thread.

I know. Personally I think you're only worth ten minutes, the extra estimated twenty minutes spent on that post (and indeed, on this one) were spent making a hot drink and something to eat.

Your posts do have that antagonistic flavour to it. Tasty.

ZUN has been doing a lot since 2003, or perhaps you haven't heard of Mountain of Faith, Imperishable Night, Perfect Cherry Blossom, or Shoot the Bullet, all of which came out since then.

CTRL+C/CTRL+V games, in more ways than one. They all look the same, sound the same, and (with perhaps the exception of StB) feature tiny reworkings of gameplay elements found in predecessors.

Not exactly what I'd call a lot. But that's okay.
One man working pretty much alone will eventually run out of ideas.

A brand name software developer with a team of 50+ employees, a ton of loyal investors, three (maybe more) main creative directors and turnover so big for a niche genre developer it dwarfs all the other niche genre developers combined - ever - will continue to churn out more quality product for a long time to come.

Very few people are prepared to spend $900 on a CAVE PCB and the necessary follow-ups in order to play a single game. Fundamentally it isn't value for money, and only if you continuously play the games iwll you get value for money. Wait, what am I saying, there's no fucking way you're getting value for money by spending $900 on a single game.

So I take it you failed miserably in your attempt to "get into PCBs"? Which is hilarious, as a few months before you posted that thread, you made mention of the fact that you were once "into PCBs" yourself with Raiden DX. Quite a change of tone. Not the only one I might add.

The fact that you yourself are not prepared to pay a certain amount for something you desire tells me a lot. In this life, you get what you pay for. And there are plenty of people in this world who are prepared to pay whatever for what they want, and *gasp* they actually enjoy what they get.

CAVE is so inconsiderate of it's fanbase that it isn't prepared to have their titles ported to consoles because they won't profit from it enough. Money talks, tsk tsk tsk. Kinda sad when I think about how many people download ZUN's games, probably unaware that they're actually created and sold with minimal profit.

The difference between Cave and ZUN: Cave is a trading company working in a competitive industry, ZUN is an independent developer. While both have competitors, they also cater to different target audiences - Cave cater to arcade ops and arcade players, ZUN caters to those on a tighter budget.

And yes, money does indeed talk. ZUN might be developing and selling with minimal profit, but all that profit (whatever it is) is his. Cave on the other hand have investors to satisfy, staff to pay, bills to cover, costs associated with developing hardware and the games themselves, mass marketing etc. The scale of their operation is vastly different, and as such, you can't compare the way ZUN and Cave do business, as they have different goals in the end.

ZUN games are $20, or technically $18. Not $50. And they provide a bunch of gameplay over CAVE games which are slightly different from one another but they always follow the same traits.

Oh really? Because you can twist that argument right back at you and state that almost all of ZUN's games are minor tweaks to their predecessors:

- most feature that invisible border on screen that when passed auto-collects items;
- most if not all feature spell-cards that must be nullified for a big bonus;
- most if not all feature multiplying powerups systems in the same vein as a Raizing or a Compile;
- variants on a meter that affects scoring (Cherry in PCB, Faith in MoF, for example);
- virtually the same attack system of shoot, focus and bomb in almost all games;
- most feature a medal system that maxes out at some arbitrary value (normally 10k);

Need I go on?

If anything, StB is the only ZUN game that is truely different to its predecessors. The rest are plus alphas.

Nice wiki-dive, though.

One does not comment without prior experience of what is being discussed.

Unfortunately ZUN has actively achieved a higher status in Japan over CAVE, which is hilarious considering CAVE is a gaming company, and he isn't. Oh well, like I said, keep hangin' on. You have your barely-existent CAVE fan material, and a couple of games (at MAX) from them a year. Stop acting so butthurt because your favourite franchise is dying. I guess I'd be worried about making my titles easily accessible to the majority of the world by putting their content on a console, if I was grasping at strings.

And what are you basing these non-existent comparison tallies on? The doujin market? 2ch /b/tards?
Present hard evidence (figures, source links etc) that ZUN has achieved a higher status than Cave in Japan. Otherwise I think you're full of bullshit.

[GaijinPunch]

Otherwise I think you're full of bullshit.

Did you really need that post to confirm that though?

[Rob]

When they want to be good, they put out stuff as quality as Cave.

Aside from Gradius V (which is at least half credit to Konami), I don't think they do. They've got a few games in a decade with iffy 3D graphics and lazy chaining scoring systems. And Silpheed. How does that qualify them as a legitimate competitor for Cave? They're right alongside... I might even go as far as saying Milestone and Triangle Service.

Skonec had Psyvariar 2 and Homura this decade. That's about equal to Treasure's contribution. Same with G.Rev and Border Down/Under Defeat.

actually its blooming like never before.

Doujin releases or something?

[Arvandor]

I could be wrong, but from what I've heard, Zun basically just makes games that HE enjoys playing, and if others also enjoy them, then hurrah or something.

I definitely find them to be pretty mediocre, and very samey, but I DO still like them, and find them to be INCREDIBLY impressive considering it's just one guy doing... everything. Also, Phantasmagoria of Flower View > Twinkle Star Sprites. That's right, you heard me.

[Erinu]

C+ for effort, but really, a failed response and pathetic attempt which took you at least half an hour to contribute detrimental content to this thread.

I know. Personally I think you're only worth ten minutes, the extra estimated twenty minutes spent on that post (and indeed, on this one) were spent making a hot drink and something to eat.

Your posts do have that antagonistic flavour to it. Tasty.

Awesome, more material which is completely unrelated to the topic at hand, and isn't really worth reading at all. You're making quite a name for yourself here, Icarus, as being the local resident troll.

CTRL+C/CTRL+V games, in more ways than one. They all look the same, sound the same, and (with perhaps the exception of StB) feature tiny reworkings of gameplay elements found in predecessors.

Not exactly what I'd call a lot. But that's okay.
One man working pretty much alone will eventually run out of ideas.

Ridiculous. There's some patterns which are used in different touhou games which are the same, but rarely. Most of the stuff isn't cut-and-paste. ZUN's music is one of a kind, so common sense will present itself here as I'm certainly aware it hasn't come unto you before: it's going to sound like previous works. Kind of like how CAVE's dear Manabu Namiki, as all the stuff sounds reminiscent of previous works. The same applies to ZUN.

Since the games are essentially sequels, yes, thank you, master of deduction. They have elements of previous games. CAVE does this too, you know. Although they're not always making sequels. Take the dolls from DOJ and the lolis from Death Smiles, and compare them. Just sayin'.

A brand name software developer with a team of 50+ employees, a ton of loyal investors, three (maybe more) main creative directors and turnover so big for a niche genre developer it dwarfs all the other niche genre developers combined - ever - will continue to churn out more quality product for a long time to come.

That's great! So much effort for something which, and I quote, someone said: "for Japanese kids who play on their way to school and from home"? Doesn't make much sense, does it? If they were easily accessible to more people, more people will buy them. There's no language barrier for these kinds of games. It just makes sense.

So I take it you failed miserably in your attempt to "get into PCBs"? Which is hilarious, as a few months before you posted that thread, you made mention of the fact that you were once "into PCBs" yourself with Raiden DX. Quite a change of tone. Not the only one I might add.

I've definitely dealt with PCBs before, which is why I'm speaking from experience. Not all up to date on the supergun jargon, no, which is why I created that thread. Oh well! It seems some people enjoy digging through my posting history here. What a pointless activity. Nice history-dive, though. You're really scrounging.

The fact that you yourself are not prepared to pay a certain amount for something you desire tells me a lot. In this life, you get what you pay for. And there are plenty of people in this world who are prepared to pay whatever for what they want, and *gasp* they actually enjoy what they get.

Within your means. You get what you pay for? That might be an exaggeration. $900 American for a single game isn't exactly a "sensible" thing to do. I've bought a console for a few hundred just to play a single game, so the same can be applied there. The fact is that I AM prepared to pay, just within my means. And it certainly wasn't $900, which is simply ridiculous. There's people in this world prepared to pay for CAVE PCBs because there's people in this world that can't play them any other way.

The difference between Cave and ZUN: Cave is a trading company working in a competitive industry, ZUN is an independent developer. While both have competitors, they also cater to different target audiences - Cave cater to arcade ops and arcade players, ZUN caters to those on a tighter budget.

And yes, money does indeed talk. ZUN might be developing and selling with minimal profit, but all that profit (whatever it is) is his. Cave on the other hand have investors to satisfy, staff to pay, bills to cover, costs associated with developing hardware and the games themselves, mass marketing etc. The scale of their operation is vastly different, and as such, you can't compare the way ZUN and Cave do business, as they have different goals in the end.

I don't really think you get this. ZUN isn't making his games so that people "on a tighter budget" can play them. He originally decided to make games like these because what he currently saw available wasn't what he wanted to play. Yes, he even plays his own games. I don't think the first thing on his mind would be "oh hey, I sure hope poor people can enjoy this!" but rather, in actuality, he wanted to create something that wasn't there.

Oh really? Because you can twist that argument right back at you and state that almost all of ZUN's games are minor tweaks to their predecessors:

- most feature that invisible border on screen that when passed auto-collects items;
- most if not all feature spell-cards that must be nullified for a big bonus;
- most if not all feature multiplying powerups systems in the same vein as a Raizing or a Compile;
- variants on a meter that affects scoring (Cherry in PCB, Faith in MoF, for example);
- virtually the same attack system of shoot, focus and bomb in almost all games;
- most feature a medal system that maxes out at some arbitrary value (normally 10k);

Need I go on?

If anything, StB is the only ZUN game that is truely different to its predecessors. The rest are plus alphas.

What? Plus alpha? Are you just making up stuff now? The games are essentially SEQUELS, so OF COURSE they're alike. Dodonpachi and Daioujou have the same chaining concept going for them, there's returning bosses, there's even areas that LOOK the same (Stage 2 end, Stage 3 beginning) or which can be played in the exact same style, and movements.

Since the games are essentially sequels to the previous titles, fucking duh. They're going to have scoring that's reminiscent, returning characters, enemies, bullets, etc. There's also the whole independent developer thing you brought up, where ZUN uses his current resources for a better game (also seen in the Plantine Dispositif games), but that isn't a bad thing. Pretty much everyone who's into making games will do this.

I'm pretty sure ZUN could get his games into the arcade with a little help. I mean, take a look at bloodflowers' project a year or two ago. I can't exactly recall but I remember it being awesome, he made an arcade dedicated to Imperishable Night. I can see it in an Egret II.

But, look. Let's be realistic. That probably isn't happening. And CAVE isn't going to start porting games to (any) consoles. ZUN's popularity comes from his games, and fan-related stuff. I'm sure CAVE would be far more popular if people could actually play their games.

[Icarus]

Awesome, more material which is completely unrelated to the topic at hand, and isn't really worth reading at all. You're making quite a name for yourself here, Icarus, as being the local resident troll.

That's rich coming from you. 90% of your total post count is inflammatory and confrontational, and you have the nerve to say I post unrelated stuff? Especially considering I'm arguing related points?

Also, I don't just troll here. I buy and play Cave games, too.

ZUN's music is one of a kind, so common sense will present itself here as I'm certainly aware it hasn't come unto you before: it's going to sound like previous works. Kind of like how CAVE's dear Manabu Namiki, as all the stuff sounds reminiscent of previous works. The same applies to ZUN.

Can't exactly be "one of a kind" if they all "sound like previous works", then, genius.

Since the games are essentially sequels, yes, thank you, master of deduction. They have elements of previous games. CAVE does this too, you know. Although they're not always making sequels. Take the dolls from DOJ and the lolis from Death Smiles, and compare them. Just sayin'.

Compare all the games of ZUN's back catalogue together.
Now do the same for Cave.

How many "non-sequel/non-related" (with regards to gameplay/scoring) do you have in both? ZUN has made two, perhaps three totally new gameplay styles in his past works (StB, PoFV, fighting games don't count as they aren't actually his). The rest rarely deviate, all featuring (by your admission) identicals and some additionals, enough to be classed as part sequels.

Cave, starting with Donpachi, switched it up with Esprade, then Guwange, then Progear, then, Ketsui, then Espgaluda, then Mushi, then Ibara, then Muchi Muchi Pork, then Death Smiles...

That's great! So much effort for something which, and I quote, someone said: "for Japanese kids who play on their way to school and from home"? Doesn't make much sense, does it? If they were easily accessible to more people, more people will buy them. There's no language barrier for these kinds of games. It just makes sense.

You don't realise that they are accessible to more people considering any idiot in Japan can walk into an arcade, drop 100Y into a cab and play a Cave. You are basing your argument on an actual purchase, something that only a handful of the total consumer base will be capable of doing, inside Japan or out.

As for "kids", see point above. There are hundreds of arcades in Japan, just as there are hundreds of PCs spread across Japanese households. Both Cave and ZUN are accessible to native Japanese, their primary target audience. We outside of Japan are irrelevant.

Within your means. You get what you pay for? That might be an exaggeration. $900 American for a single game isn't exactly a "sensible" thing to do. I've bought a console for a few hundred just to play a single game, so the same can be applied there. The fact is that I AM prepared to pay, just within my means. And it certainly wasn't $900, which is simply ridiculous. There's people in this world prepared to pay for CAVE PCBs because there's people in this world that can't play them any other way.

You're not prepared to pay "within your means" but that doesn't mean that someone else who is is making a bad decision. If it is within someone's means and interests to bag a $900 PCB because they desire it, then so be it.

It appears to me that you have something against people who do. Either that or you feel some need to belittle people who do. If anything, I don't think it's any of your business who does what with their money.

I don't really think you get this. ZUN isn't making his games so that people "on a tighter budget" can play them. He originally decided to make games like these because what he currently saw available wasn't what he wanted to play. Yes, he even plays his own games. I don't think the first thing on his mind would be "oh hey, I sure hope poor people can enjoy this!" but rather, in actuality, he wanted to create something that wasn't there.

And did he himself say this? (Sauce plz.)
And if he really thought that, would he sell his work? Especially considering there are doujin just as good released that are free.

The games are essentially SEQUELS, so OF COURSE they're alike. Dodonpachi and Daioujou have the same chaining concept going for them... <snip>

Yes, ALL of ZUN's are essentially sequels, which is the point. Cave make one new entity (Donpachi series, Galuda duo, Ibara duo etc), maybe a sequel to it, then make another new entity, and then the process repeats. Never in Cave's history have they "sequelled" each successive game.

I don't think ZUN is capable of creating a brand-new series. Touhou is his cash cow, and personally I don't think he has enough ideas. At least with Cave you can expect something totally different every so often (moreso with the trio of creative directors now doing something on a regular basis).

I'm pretty sure ZUN could get his games into the arcade with a little help. I mean, take a look at bloodflowers' project a year or two ago. I can't exactly recall but I remember it being awesome, he made an arcade dedicated to Imperishable Night. I can see it in an Egret II.

I'm sure he could. However bloodf's IN machine was a personal project, and doing something like that on a bigger scale might not be cost effective to ZUN. That and he'd need some approval from arcade ops to tinker with their machines. (And even after that, arcade ops would have to consider the potential profits from making and running a ZUN cab.)

But, look. Let's be realistic. That probably isn't happening. And CAVE isn't going to start porting games to (any) consoles. ZUN's popularity comes from his games, and fan-related stuff. I'm sure CAVE would be far more popular if people could actually play their games.

Maybe. Who knows.

One thing is for sure, Cave don't consider porting to be profitable in the short- to medium-term, and thus we return to a previous point: those people who are willing to pay for kits/PCBs will be able to play Cave, those who aren't, won't.

[Twiddle]

i have a smilie that describes the entirety of erinu's posting history:

[Twiddle]

What evidence is there of ZUN being a whitey hater?

ugh i burst into hives in my blog if someone posts a comment in my guestbook(s) in english

[shoe-sama]

[MathU]

I have a smilie that describes the entirety of Icarus' posting history:

[GaijinPunch]

How does that qualify them as a legitimate competitor for Cave?

I never said it did. I said when they have the budget, they can make stuff as good as Cave (eg. Ikaruga & Gradius V). Nothing more.

They're right alongside... I might even go as far as saying Milestone and Triangle Service.

Right, but you love Psikyo games.

ugh i burst into hives in my blog if someone posts a comment in my guestbook(s) in english

That is indeed not too tolerant.

[Icarus]

I have a smilie that describes the entirety of Icarus' posting history:

Incorrect. 99% is , 1% is /wrists.

[shoe-sama]

What evidence is there of ZUN being a whitey hater?

ugh i burst into hives in my blog if someone posts a comment in my guestbook(s) in english

OOOOOO THIS I GOTTA SEE

[Erinu]

This is ZUN's declaration of him making games "for himself, because there was nothing else he liked." I guess that includes CAVE games.

P1: How did you start with Team Shanghai Alice?

Z: It's been five years since I started it and it has always only consisted of myself. The reason that I started TSA was that I couldn't find any games I liked myself. Year after year the games keep getting split between big games and cheap games. I wanted a game that appealed to me, so I had to start making games myself. I guess that was the main reason. Music is another of my spare time activities, so the fact that I could create both games and music made me pull myself to doujin circles.

The whole thing can be found here. There's also a bunch of other stuff here.

I really doubt he'd get pissed at someone posting in english on his blog.

[shoe-sama]

Awesome, more material which is completely unrelated to the topic at hand, and isn't really worth reading at all. You're making quite a name for yourself here, Erinu, as being the local resident troll.

[Rob]

This board is so worthless these days. Like, really.

[Zebra Airforce]

The other shooters must have been too hard/fast for him.

[shoe-sama]

pretty awesome huh?

[-Bridget-]

Hoooooboy.

This is TOTALLY out of control.


Let me just say one thing here:


Erinu, I understand the point you're trying to make.

HOWEVER.

Acting the way you are (AKA, arguementive fanboy-style), just isnt gonna get your point accross.


And understand, no matter what you say, there are just gonna be some people that simply dont care for Zun's games that much. Or those like me, that think they're fine, but are still just plain gonna like Cave better.


And what's wrong with that? What IS the point of all of this nonsense?


Well, there isnt one.




Im thinking maybe this topic should be locked? This is getting silly here......

[Twiddle]

I have a smilie that describes the entirety of Icarus' posting history:

I have a smilie that describes the entirety of your posting history


or is it

it's hard to tell, though the latter applies to the hi score forums

This board is so worthless these days. Like, really.

yeah, what i've been doing my last 100 or so posts on this board is

(hit quote button situated at dumb post)

(insta-troll)

We need some more hardcore moderation and less blueballing by people like BulletMagnet. I nominate myself as the first banning casualty of this streak of hardcore moderation, followed by the unbanning of tiw

[Dandy J]

I have a smilie that describes the entirety of Icarus' posting history:

Really? Because he's a great player who's contributed many things to this forum, not the least of which are his strategy guides that help other players immensely. What have you contributed?