first manic shooter

alysa · Post by **alysa** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:52 am

I've been playing MAME again lately and was wondering which few games started the Manic Shmups genre. Also for Shmups which version of mame is the best? And which controller.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:05 am

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=11882

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:51 am

After searching for a few minutes I found this:

Manic Shmup

MAME

Stick or Pad

astrix · Post by **astrix** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:09 am

I would have to say Batsugun by Toaplan. It might not have been the first but it was probably the first one that was popular.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:18 am

Im not sure Batsugun is manic, there are more bullets going up than there is down.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:26 am

most folks agree on batsugun

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:54 am

I thought it was Recca.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:53 am

Until people actually agree on what a manic shooter actually is (which they won't) the question can't be addressed.

Asherdude · Post by **Asherdude** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:59 am

Batsugun was probably the first modern manic shmup. I think that the first attempt at a manic shmup was Megamania. Video.

shinsage · Post by **shinsage** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:07 am

deffo not batsugun.

manic shooter is such a vague term, or one that the community can't seem to agree upon.

I consider quite a few shooters pre-Batsugun to be manic.
i just can't list them right now.
ugh i'm such a failure.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:07 am

lol what a joke

even edf is more manic

and edf is characterized by old school action

shinsage · Post by **shinsage** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:08 am

i mean aren't most shooters manic to begin with i mean wtf guys, just wtf

GUYS WTF

SHOE BUDDY WTF EH

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:17 am

Space Invaders for the Atari 2600 with dual shot enabled is more manic

ARCADIA · Post by **ARCADIA** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:19 am

I thought the term stood for games like "Deep Blue"

Asherdude · Post by **Asherdude** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:22 am

When I hear manic shooter, I think "blossom bullet pattern shooters".

Is that what you guys think of?

Edit: That would disqualify Batsugun, wouldn't it?

Kaiser · Post by **Kaiser** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:30 am

The second shmup that had over the top number of bullets was zing zing zip in 1992 released by Tecmo/allumer, the first one was......... STAR FORCE FROM 1984! IT was so manic later that i could'nt get past area 16

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:52 am

Asherdude wrote:[oooo pretty bullets]

Asherdude · Post by **Asherdude** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:56 am

shoe-sama wrote:
Asherdude wrote:[oooo pretty bullets]

Yeah, I know. Pretty bullet patterns doesn't fit. Even I was calling Geometry Wars Galaxies "manic" the other day and it doesn't have any patterns - at all.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:06 am

Manic shmups definitely have patterns generally speaking.

If you play a Cave game in normal arcade mode, although there are patterns, they are not as graphic as the ones in the manic modes.

Pattern shooters are much more manic than non pattern shooters I can tell you that. Like everyone states, where is the line drawn, when 99 bullets on screen becomes 100?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:21 am

The more, slower bullets there are the more manic it is.

jp · Post by jp » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:35 am

nimitz wrote:Space Invaders for the Atari 2600 with dual shot enabled is more manic

Sadly, the hitbox was far too big.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:51 am

There's no way Batsugun can be the first manic. The only thing it has is insane firepower, which can found in countless earlier games. Now, Batsugun Special Ver. has the very small hitbox, which together with the firepower, has a decent claim for the title depending on your definitions.

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:35 am

What is the one defining feature of a manic shooter? Lot's of bullets or lot's of bullet-patterns? Isn't the one just a function of the other? Or at least an evolution from the one to the other? As the developers wanted more and more bullets on screen they had to develop more elaborate bullet patterns to avoid making the games unplayable.

more bullets --> now we can make bullet patterns!
even more bullets --> now we need bullet patterns! And a smaller hitbox too!
even more even more bullets --> now we need to make a shift in focus!

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:00 pm

Rob wrote:The more, slower bullets there are the more manic it is.

Nah, manic = fast moving bullets, like Gunbird 2, Dangun, Cho Ren Sha 68k and Batrider. It also has an emphasis on fast, twitchy dodging.

Games with slow bullets generally have a slow shot function. Moving slowly little distances to dodge slow bullets doesn't sound very manic to me. Touhou games hardly get your pulse racing like Dragon Blaze.

So Recca was the 1st manic. DON'T ARGUE.

Post by **spadgy** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:56 pm

DJ Rectal Prolapse wrote:
Rob wrote:The more, slower bullets there are the more manic it is.
Games with slow bullets generally have a slow shot function. Moving slowly little distances to dodge slow bullets doesn't sound very manic to me. Touhou games hardly get your pulse racing like Dragon Blaze.

I won't argue! Gotta agree with all of this. Lot's of bullets doesn't mean manic to me. Outside of shmups manic means crazily fast and frenzied basically; not numerous. So in shmups surely manic means super fast bullets and super fast dodging? I think so.

Fast enemies/enemy fire power = manic
Lots of fast enemies/enemy fire power = manic
Slow enemies/enemy fire power = not manic
Lots of slow enemies/enemy fire power = not manic
Lots and lots and lots of slow enemies/enemy fire power = not manic

So Recca must be one of the very first, if not the very fast... (EDIT - meant first! Easy mistake in context!)

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:20 pm

DDP is the first proper manic, Batsugun and Recca are great but not manic IMO.

Post by **spadgy** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:56 pm

freddiebamboo wrote:DDP is the first proper manic, Batsugun and Recca are great but not manic IMO.

But in their time they were incredibly manic. That might not mean they are now, but it still marks them as the first

unsane · Post by **unsane** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:09 pm

Asherdude wrote:I think that the first attempt at a manic shmup was Megamania. Video.

Holy. Fucking. Shit. Major flashbacks, i'd completely forgotten that game! I played it a ton as a kid. It's some of my earliest, most vivid video game memories, alongside Jungle Hunt, Q-Bert, and some tank game. Wow. I guess i was a manic shmupper in training even back then.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:52 pm

freddiebamboo wrote:DDP is the first proper manic, Batsugun and Recca are great but not manic IMO.

But then Garegga was released 1 year earlier...and is even more manic

Recca would be more like an "ancestor" of manic shmups rather than the first one in the way it was too prototypical.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:58 pm

nimitz wrote:
freddiebamboo wrote:DDP is the first proper manic, Batsugun and Recca are great but not manic IMO.
But then Garegga was released 1 year earlier...and is even more manic.

Garegga is not very manic compared to DDP, despite cave taking influence from Garegga - they upped the bullet count dramatically from raizing's sparse but evil spreads to the masses of spam that populate the genre these days:

Blackie MK2 + Glowsquid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc0nthrzxpM

TLB Bee (campaign ver, but you get the idea)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqgYeQ60uw8