Seriously, who is going to beat CAVE?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:48 pm

mirkvid wrote:APB > DDP.
yeah, i said it!!

Giga Wing Generations > DDP

Post by **spadgy** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:54 pm

I'm a big Cave fan, but those who have expressed that Cave output is all rather samey have something to argue I guess.

However, the level of forethought and considered design in Cave games is exceptional, and the way bullet patterns are designed to be both visually stunning and carefully tailored to the scoring system never fails to amaze and excite me when I play. I just love it when you think you've uncovered some new route or strategy, and then you realise those clever gits have just been waiting for you to discover something they planned long ago...

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:54 pm

Who could possible think DDP looks better than Armed Police Batrider? Batrider is one of the best looking games of all time!

I'd also like to point out that DDP came out after Battle Garegga, not before.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:16 pm

raizing will rize again!!! (id like to think anyways, but sadly it wont happen

)

im glad Cave are soaking up all these old shmup profiles floating around and putting them to work on new games, for the arcade even, i cant imagine any company like moss or Grev beating that kind of lineup even if theyre releasing quality games.

ed: and i agree, both batrider and garegga (and bakraid for that matter) are very beautiful games graphically, a very different artstyle to DDP which is proboably easier to appreciate tho.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:16 pm

Zebra Airforce wrote:Who could possible think DDP looks better than Armed Police Batrider? Batrider is one of the best looking games of all time!

No kidding. It looks great. It had multiple game modes well before Mushihimesama. It has a huge variety of characters and character combos. Great music. Etc. It does everything as right as it can be done.

If I didn't discover it so late it might be my favorite vert. As it is, it settles for like #3.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:28 pm

Rob wrote:
PROMETHEUS wrote:Armed Police Batrider and Gunbird 2 were released 1 year later than Dodonpachi and I think they look worse, sound worse, and play worse.
You like cheesy video game metal that much? And enemy chaining. But DDP has magical bullet dodging.

Shenmue's Excite QTE 2 has more randomness than DDP. A minigame in an interactive story.

I agree that DDP's music isn't very good at all but I think Armed Police Batrider's soundtrack is downright horrible, and I think Gunbird 2 has catchy tunes but I find the composition very poor overall. And then there's the sound effects...

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm

Dunno about the Gunbirds.
Not a big Psikyo fan at all.
Dragon Blaze was about all I could hang with... Cos it played more like a cave game.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:37 pm

PROMETHEUS wrote: I agree that DDP's music isn't very good at all but I think Armed Police Batrider's soundtrack is downright horrible, and I think Gunbird 2 has catchy tunes but I find the composition very poor overall. And then there's the sound effects...

I'm usually not too interested in soundtracks anymore, but the APB one is just like classic 8/16-bit/arcade style music. Appreciated over the recent shooter standard of third rate techno.

Psikyo soundtracks are pretty crappy, but GB2's is somehow OK. Best compliment I can give.

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:24 am

They manage to go more than two stages without repeating tracks. Best compliment I can give.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:43 am

SUPER TECHNO SOUNDTRACK

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:46 am

1st rate

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:37 am

It's all a matter of preference, Harlequin. I've played a number of Cave's games since I joined this site, and I can think of a healthy amount of shmups that I find to be more enjoyable than Cave's offerings. That's not to say that DP, DDP and others are bad or dull, but to me, shmups like Thunder Force IV, Under Defeat, Border Down, Ikaruga and others are more enjoyable to play.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:15 am

about APB

Rob wrote:No kidding. It looks great. It had multiple game modes well before Mushihimesama. It has a huge variety of characters and character combos. Great music. Etc. It does everything as right as it can be done.

Don't forget the AWESOME intro, this is one of the best arcade game intro ever (1944 is up there too). And DDP has none...

R8zing is(was) the shit

But yeah, without Cave the scene would be pretty boring nowadays

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:21 am

Some people have missed the point of the whole thread, which is expected after reading postrs here for nearly two years i kind of expected it.

Let me clarify. I dont like Cave games that much, Im a Raizing fan
through and through with bits of Psikyo thrown in.

Then i got to play Ibara and realised this company can do no wrong
AT THE MOMENT. There is no competition for them which isnt a good
thing.

Pre 2001, there was Raizing, Psykio and many other companies
making SHmups, quality ones too.

I am just worried about the genre if no other companies step up
to the plate and give CAVE a run for thier money.

Harlequin

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:52 am

Harlequin wrote:Some people have missed the point of the whole thread, which is expected after reading postrs here for nearly two years i kind of expected it.

You know, you could've said there doesn't appear to be any competition now (as in the last 2-3 years) and I'm sure almost everyone would agree. If you actually meant what you said, well gee. What are Mars Matrix, Shikigami II, Border Down, Gradius V, etc. anyways? You haven't played Ikaruga. A lot of the semi-recent games are decent, not great, but have you even played them?

Erinu · Post by **Erinu** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:55 am

ZUN

/thread

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:12 am

Erinu wrote:ZUN

/thread

everyone already LOLed at this.. no fun just repeating jokes.

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:18 am

Zun's characters don't have big enough boobs to beat Cave.

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:54 am

They consistantly pull out 2 titles a year now and they are always top notch quality, i know others are doing the same but can you really put any of them in the same camp as CAVE?

I reread what i worte and it does come across alittle as CAVE Fanboyish, oh well, thats not my intention.

RAIZING RULES!

Harlequin

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:02 am

Jack Thompson will destroy Cave

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:15 am

shoe-sama wrote:Jack Thompson will destroy Cave

Naked.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:17 am

shoe-sama wrote:Jack Thompson will destroy Cave

And Osama Bin Laden lives in a Cave. Could Jack Thompson be a bad enough dude to find him and bring him to justice?

powerfuran · Post by **powerfuran** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:54 am

Cave games are great, and that''s it. There's nothing wrong in admitting it, and being a fanboy is not a crime at all. They went on till now doing just about perfect games, none of them has big "flaws" in gameplays, and none of them sucks. Obviously personal likings are a different topic, and the black-labels / arrange modes may be seen as a gimmick (as I do).
But it's also necessary to notice that other games top the same quality level of Cave's products. Cave is deluging the market whit its games, so everybody notice only Cave's stuff.

I'm a big fun of Treasure's games....no, wait: it's better to say Iuchi Hiroshi's games. He did 3 games (Ika, RSG, GradiusV) that simply rock. In a personal rank, I may see them as masterworks in the stg scene, and Cave games as only great confirmations of a trend, but hey, like I said, it's a matter of personal taste.

Oh, please, let's drop this thing of Ikaruga being a puzzle game, IT'S NOT. Some section's in Mushihimesama or Espgaluda aren't less "puzzle-ish" than Ikaruga.

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:27 am

there are a lot of differences in feel to the games tho even if they stick to a formula .. ketsui for example feels a LOT less patterned to me than a game like espgaluda 2 ..

if raizing were still alive i would imagine they would be on a similar level to cave. yuo can still see some raizing influence in the graphics of caizing games but it's not the same with all them bright colours..we want rust and metal and big hovertanks!!

worstplayer · Post by **worstplayer** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:34 am

charlie chong wrote:we want rust and metal and big hovertanks!!

Can i sig it?

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:46 am

YESHHHHH

djvinc · Post by **djvinc** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:52 am

I love Cave, i wouldn't have thought before spending 1000 EUR on just one game, and not regret it.

But they are not unbeatable. Nobody is.

Post by **spadgy** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:23 pm

Harlequin wrote:
Ive checked out Gradius V and it looks great but im not a Horizontal SHmup player. Maybe i should give it more time.

Give it a good go. I was dubious about horis when it came out, and wasn't even that aware of Cave at the time. I'd dabbled in a little R-Type, Steel Empire etc as a kid, but really was just a Psikyo fan back then. Gradius V opened my mind to horis, and now while I'm still mainly a vert player, I'm so glad to have discovered so many brilliant hori games.

Powerfuran - I never noticed Iuchi Hiroshi did GV, even though I love the game. It's so obvious now you say. No wonder it swung me to horis. Thanks for the knowledge.

Finally. That glorious Jack Thompson? He emailled me once after an article I wrote on Manhunt 2. He said many mean things I won't mention for fear of his passion for legal action and searching for his own name on the internet. Let's just say when I emailled back (always good to have his email address) he didn't reply to my comments on how I worshipped him as an erotic demigod and how he sent my mind into a sexual stupor. No sense of fun! (That's sarcasm Jack

I know you're great!)

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:56 pm

Since I'm out of the country I'm pretty much out of his grasp. Just tell me what you wanted to say in PM and I'll post it.

Post by **spadgy** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:40 pm

It's a kind offer sir, and one I'm tempted by, but frankly there's little more to say about the cheeky god-fearing Mary Whitehouse wannabe. Let's face it, he does a pretty good job of doing his own counter-PR without any need for a helping hand!

http://www.gamingtarget.com/article.php?artid=6165

See!