Good shmups with restart points.

Smotrage · Post by **Smotrage** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:24 pm

I recently picked up R-Types for PlayStation and am enjoying the unlimited continue/restart point play mechanic. I don't like shooters that allow you to immediately respawn where you die. I find that it makes otherwise great shooters like Darius Gaiden and R-Type Leo too easy because you can chip away at a tough boss, die, come back and repeat the process as often as you like. I can bypass limited continues with an emulator, but I'm having problems finding quality shooters with checkpoints. Could I get some recommendations?

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:28 pm

credit feeding is for losers

Dr_Ian · Post by **Dr_Ian** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:31 pm

Smotrage wrote:Could I get some recommendations?

I recommend you grow some skills and stop using credits altogether.

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:38 pm

give me break, snobs

The Daioh/Shienryu series has a fantastic set up.
Checkpoints during the level (good one's, too) and continues at the bosses! Least frustrating and most challenging setup ever.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:39 pm

Smotrage wrote:I find that it makes otherwise great shooters like Darius Gaiden and R-Type Leo too easy because you can chip away at a tough boss, die, come back and repeat the process as often as you like.

what

bsidwell · Post by **bsidwell** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:43 pm

lurn2play

Leeloo Minaï · Post by **Leeloo Minaï** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:43 pm

Funny to read the 2 first answers about credit feeding, which is not the purpose of this topic.

Smotrage : try the Gradius games, great classics with checkpoints (and yes the 5th of the serie has checkpoints but you have to activate it in the options)

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:45 pm

He's asking for checkpoint shmups cuz he thinks all the others are too easy due to credit feeding.

How is that not relevant?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:50 pm

Whatever floats your boat, dude.

X-Multiply
Xexex
Progear loop (LOL)
Gradius Gaiden
Sexy Parodius
Einhander
R-Type Delta

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:01 pm

Either-
A: suggest to not credit feed, or
B: suggest some shmups that are fun to credit feed (as in, have checkpoints)

I personally love to credit feed checkpoints- am compelled, even, and often reach shmup nirvana compulsively feeding the same 3 feet of screen over and over. I must have played bits or r-type over a million times.

I think Truxton is great for that. Truxton 2 is good too, but I think the checkpoints are a little further apart.
Dogyuun
Also the Gradius games, especially #4 and #2
Strider/ ghouls and ghosts even (non shmup, sorry)
Raiden
Pulstar (has a few shitty checkpoints on fire level)

Does anyone know shmups with particularly bad checkpoints? Like Super R-Type on the SNES

Zeether · Post by **Zeether** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:16 pm

Is this guy from IGN or something?

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:17 pm

dpful wrote:Does anyone know shmups with particularly bad checkpoints? Like Super R-Type on the SNES

I fail to see how Super R-Type's bad outside of the fact that checkpoint shmups should never offer unlimited score-based extends in the first place (it just completely breaks their scoring). The only bad checkpoint in the game is stage 7.. all the others stages are far more easily recoverable due to starting at the beginning of the stage (where you are normally granted a power-up or two) than anything in the rest of the series (see the second-half of stage 7 from the original R-Type, which is a total fucking pain in the ass to go through from scratch).

Smotrage · Post by **Smotrage** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:50 pm

dpful wrote:Strider/ ghouls and ghosts even (non shmup, sorry)

It's funny you mention Ghouls 'n Ghosts because it was one of the first games I thought of when I started playing R-Type. Fighting my way to the checkpoint and then learning the second half of the map is what I enjoy more than anything in a video game. Any game that can remain challenging with unlimited continues is perfection to me.

Thanks for the recommendations.

Dragon1952 · Post by **Dragon1952** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:07 pm

Vertical shooters as per your criteria:

Raiden
Daioh
Tatsuijin/Truxton
Tatsujin Oh/Truxton 2
Mad Shark
Image Fight
War of Aero: Project Meiou
Double Wings
Trigon/Lightning Fighters
V-Five
Dogyuun
Shienryu

escadrille · Post by **escadrille** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:26 pm

Dragon1952 wrote:Vertical shooters as per your criteria:

Raiden
Daioh
Tatsuijin/Truxton
Tatsujin Oh/Truxton 2
Mad Shark
Image Fight
War of Aero: Project Meiou
Double Wings
Trigon/Lightning Fighters
V-Five
Dogyuun
Shienryu

This is the correct way to answer the original question.

Though I suppose the "credits?! lolz u suck n00b!1!!1" style is not without it's charms.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 pm

95% of quality shooters require some self-control

Battlesmurf · Post by **Battlesmurf** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:59 pm

Smotrage : try the Gradius games, great classics with checkpoints (and yes the 5th of the serie has checkpoints but you have to activate it in the options)

lol....learn something new every day!

X Multiply is great. I could swear R-Type Delta had checkpoints, too...if that fits your criteria.

Emperor Fossil · Post by **Emperor Fossil** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:27 am

Try Zynaps on the c64.

When you die it sends you back to last week.

Plus it has no credits.

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:33 am

Blazing Lasers seems to send you back forever after you die.

Zeether · Post by **Zeether** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:29 am

FIL wrote:Blazing Lasers seems to send you back forever after you die.

Get the flashing icons (shoot the changing powerups enough or let them hit the bottom of the screen) and you respawn in place.

Imhotep · Post by **Imhotep** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:28 am

I find Tatsujin Ou / Truxton II very enjoyable. Its strong main weapon and bombs make comebacks very possible.

Besides, I think the graphics and some of the music are outstanding.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:34 am

BLAZEON (arcade)

shinsage · Post by **shinsage** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:16 am

lol @ people berating others for using something the developer included in the game

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:44 am

Cute.

Here was the only funny thing, you missed it: "I can bypass limited continues with an emulator, "

I'm Alec · Post by **I'm Alec** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:22 am

bsidwell wrote:lurn2play

lol michael angelo avatar

:buttrock:

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:53 am

lol @ people berating others for using something the developer included in the game

He called credit-feeding a "play mechanic." You must not understand arcade games either, because that's one of the funniest things I've ever heard on this board.

If he's seeking the advice of our wise village elders (shoe-sama) I think it's normal that they tell him the proper way to play and enjoy an arcade game, in clever ways if possible.

"lol r-type isn't myst you noob" for instance. That's helpful.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:31 am

Checkpoint play is supposed to encourage 1LC, but that's not what this guy is looking for so lol

Avoiding death tends to be easier than recovering from death. The same applies to shooters that don't have checkpoints too.

When I credit feed on either type, I'm always like zomg this game is impossible sdakvasjvsahdv
Then when I play normally it seems a lot easier. Not only because you have more powerups and whatnot, but also because you're forced to speedkill certain enemies or learn certain patterns in order to survive.

Console ports of Gradius would probably be what this guy would enjoy the most. Stage select and stuff yay. Checkpoints are analagous to savepoints in other types of games (LOLRPG), so lol

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:23 am

give me break, snobs

yes, please give him break

Smotrage · Post by **Smotrage** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:34 pm

shoe-sama wrote:Checkpoint play is supposed to encourage 1LC, but that's not what this guy is looking for so lol

I'd love to beat R-Type on one credit, but right now I am learning the patterns. The checkpoint mechanic along with unlimited continues allows me to do this, and the game still remains very challenging. That's what I'm looking for in a shooter, and a couple of the recommendations in this thread have fit the bill perfectly.

I think a good checkpoint-based game will be a challenge to learn even with unlimited continues. Gate of Thunder is a great example even though it starts you at the beginning of a level when you continue rather than a mid-level checkpoint. I'm playing it on the hardest difficulty and bypassing the limited continues allows me to enjoy the extreme difficulty and methodically inch my way forward without worrying about being booted back to the title screen.

It all boils down to personal preference. When I was younger, it was my way or the highway. Anyone who didn't agree with me wasn't worth my time. As I edge closer to 30 and meet and experience more people, I've come to understand and appreciate the things that make us different.

What makes me different from some of the people in this thread? I love challenging games with checkpoints and unlimited continues! I also don't like the more manic shooters that throw tons of projectiles at you, but I understand why many people do. I understand why many people like to keep track of their score or limit their continues in great games without checkpoints even though I don't.

This has become a very interesting thread. I hope is stays up for some time.

Post by **spadgy** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:26 pm

Rob wrote:95% of quality shooters require some self-control

I absolutely agree with Rob, and the others that are advocates of the one credit approach. Self control makes shmups better, and resisting credit feeding just makes the genre more fun. I rarely ever allow myself a second credit, as what's a score worth if it's used more than one credit?

Still, once in a blue moon allowing myself to carelessly burn three or four credits does seem to improve my approach when I return immediately to one credit play. I usually do that on a bad day.

Of course I understand that using multiple credits is almost always allowed by the game devs away from PCBs and the like, and of course we should just play how we want, not how we're told - but still, playing with one credit feels like the right way to play, and is infinitely more satisfying...

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Good shmups with restart points.

Good shmups with restart points.

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