Alternating Shmups

DBHashman93 · Post by **DBHashman93** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:15 am

Hey all, just wanted a quick opinion from some of the more experienced veterans here. I recently started to get serious about 1ccing some games and as such I have begun focusing on playing one shmup at a time until I can clear it. Unfortunately I seem to have hit a rock wall in Mushihime and my progress has slowed to a crawl....and it isn't for a lack of trying. Mushi is by far my most played shmup, so I'm beginning to get exhausted with those first few levels but I'm trying to stay away from playing any of the other shmups until I finish Mushi for fear of different play styles throwing me off.

So the basic question is how do you guys go about practicing for that elusive 1cc? Do you alternate between the shmup you are focusing on and others or exclusively play one until you have reached you goal (1cc, new high score, etc)?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:16 am

I know there's at least one or two other topics of this nature on here someplace...anyone got a link?

DBHashman93 · Post by **DBHashman93** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:25 am

Yeah I tried to take a look around but there weren't any great keywords to use with the search function...

. Any links would be great though

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:55 pm

Alternate between 2 shmups at most. If you start to play a lot of different shmups at the same time, I believe it will be hard to make progress in all of them.

It's always hard to do that, right now I feel like playing Gradius V, Gigawing Generation and Raiden 3 Double Mode, not to mention playing the STGT.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:04 pm

its no problem alternating between 2 or 3 shmups.. i find it easier to progress if theyre somewhat similar tho.. if you play DDP, Garegga and Gradius 5 side by side youre not gonna get anywhere..

another important aspect of progress is to take a pause from the game.. sometimes you get completely stuck at something for no real reason.. just put the game aside for a week or so and youll see it wont be a problem after that.

mirkvid · Post by **mirkvid** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:53 pm

i usually switch to arrange mode or boss rush mode if they exist to change it up a bit. really tho, if you get tired of a game, quit. its not like its impossable to come back to it later.

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:09 pm

I alternate shmups quite easily actually. Well for example if I have to 1cc a Cave shmup (I've been through Mushi and I know what you mean - - sometimes you just want to throw your ps2 across the room) I usually don't alternate with another Cave shmup. I usually do something completely different to relax my nerves but to avoid losing shmups-like reflexes. For example Novastorm

or Philosoma or something that isn't a bullet hell. It's very regenerating.

ps YES I LOVE NOVARSTORM AND PHILOSOMA

DBHashman93 · Post by **DBHashman93** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:49 pm

Haha yeah the controller has gone flying quite a few times already...fortunately I have the sense to throw it at my pile of clothes so no harm done! It's not that I'm tired of the game...it's an awesome game I'm just tired of not making progress. I guess I'll take some of your advice and play something else for the next week or so and give Mushi a break.

mirkvid · Post by **mirkvid** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:04 am

DBHashman93 wrote:Haha yeah the controller has gone flying quite a few times already...

thats the problem. get a stick, son!

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:01 am

The other guys are right when they say you shouldn't play too many other games at the same time you're seriously trying to beat one, but keep in mind the law of diminishing returns. There's a certain point at which it's no longer productive to keep practicing the same game. Stage 6 of R-Type and the last stage of X Multiply were absolute brick walls when I first came to them, and after trying them many times I put those games aside for the time being. Coming back months later, refreshed and with other shooters under my belt, I was able to traverse the transport zone and get lusty with Her Majesty. If you still see yourself making improvements then by all means keep at it, but don't be afraid to move on.

If a boxer loses a match he's not going to get anywhere by just dogmatically throwing himself at the other guy over and over again. If he's smart, he'll go home and heal up, exercise some more, try different training regimes, watch recording of his opponent's fights, have matchs against other guys and learn from them, then come back and knock that fucker out.

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:21 am

Stick with two or three. One primary game, secondary game, and a fuck around game.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:47 am

In an old, unrelated thread, I wrote:I read this book "Mind at Play," it says you're better off playing totally unrelated games inbetween sessions. In other words, you'd be better off switching between DDP and Tetris than you would, say, DDP and Espgaluda.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=12008#12008

tada · Post by **tada** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:39 am

I took about a 6-month break from playing ESPgaluda, and couldn't make it much further than stage 4 on one credit, not to mention my scores were terrible. I couldn't get even close to 1 million on stage 1, and didn't hit the first extend until the latter half of stage 3.

Then, Espgaluda II revived my interest in the first Espgaluda (I figured that was as close as I was going to get, seeing as how I wasn't in the promised land anymore and I am too poor to afford a PCB). After the rusty phase was over, I saw a definite improvement, regularly getting to stage 5-2 on one credit before long. And then, one day, after persevering, I beat the final boss. Not to mention, I now usually end stage 1 with about 3 million, and have all three extends by the end of stage 3.

Taking an extended break from a game can really help you approach it from a new angle, from my experience. Every time I return to a game, shmup or otherwise after a long hiatus, I always end up better.

On a related note, on my first phase of Mushihime-sama in a while, I noticed myself already getting further along in the TLB fight than I could before in only a few plays.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:42 am

A lot of learning is done unconsciously (particularly during sleep)

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:22 am

Well, it's not really learning. Many scientists hypothesize that REM sleep is when parts of your brains reorganize information so that's it's more easily accessible (e.g. "reinforcing").

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:27 am

Davey wrote:you'd be better off switching between DDP and Tetris than you would, say, DDP and Espgaluda.

Alternating DDP with Espgaluda to rest your brain would be like alternating between coffee and red bull to relax your nerves

oh and I never thought about the REM phase like a brain defragmentation

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:14 am

MathU wrote:Well, it's not really learning. Many scientists hypothesize that REM sleep is when parts of your brains reorganize information so that's it's more easily accessible (e.g. "reinforcing").

i have a lot of problems with rem sleep (sleep paralysis,aware of conscious thought etc) last night i had recurring thoughts all night long to do with bakraid chaining (i was playing just before bed)

this also happens if i've been making a lot of music on the computer(i.e i start arranging non existant loops in my head while i'm sleeping)... its like whatever i've been doing that day continues into my sleep..

its annoying cos often i dont feel relaxed after a sleep like this ..

oh yeah to answer the original question ... i just play one shoot em up at a time till i reach the point of diminishing returns..usually when i cant improve my high score or realize the 1cc is too far off to be feasible at that time...

i been playing garegga for 5 years and still cant get past the 6th level

i gave up a year ago but i've been working though 1cc for the other raizing games i enjoy..then once i've leeched as much score out of them i will move back to garegga and hopefully have enough skill to finally conquer that bastid ..

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:55 am

charlie chong wrote: i been playing garegga for 5 years and still cant get past the 6th level

sorry mate but

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:06 am

its no joking matter

obviously thats on and off tho (sometimes not playing for a year etc) I 1 credited bakraid and batrider within a day or 2 of when i got them...
garegga is my nemesis... SOOON IT WILL FALLLL

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:07 am

I like to have one shooter that I put most of my focus into, but I'll usually alternate between a limitless number of other shooters when I need a break. There are a number of reasons for this.

A: Sometimes I just feel like playing a particular game.
B: Playing games I'm not familiar with or haven't played in a long time helps me to gauge how much better I'm getting at shooters overall.
C: Helps quell worries that I'm becoming too reliant on memorization. Hopefully it never ends up reinforcing those fears =)
D: Helps to keep me sharp. Sometimes when I start to become very familiar with a particular shooter I'll be less focused when playing it, and won't do as well as a result. Switching it up usually fixes this problem.

Usually when I switch around I like to give myself a big shock. Going from Dodonpachi to Battle Garegga or Radiant Silvergun isn't nearly as effective as going from DDP to Gunbird 2, Game Tengoku, or something.

aphexacid · Post by **aphexacid** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:52 pm

It depends on if the game is one of my favorites. i have a good handful that i can play blindfolded, and i can play them in conjunction with new shmups.
some are just permanently embedded into my brain.

Otherwise, i need to concentrate on just the new one.

For instance i just bought Zanac X Zanac. Its not a hard game, but the backgrounds make my eyes bug out and it makes it hard for me to keep from seeing all the bullets from all angles.
So when i play Zanac, i have to get my eyes super focused so i can not focus on the background so much.

its like one of those paintings from the 90's where you have to stare at it for a few minutes to the the hidden object

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:52 am

Holy shit, if I had to do that to play a damn video game... I wouldn't play that particular video game =P

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:23 am

Fenrir wrote:
Davey wrote:you'd be better off switching between DDP and Tetris than you would, say, DDP and Espgaluda.
Alternating DDP with Espgaluda to rest your brain would be like alternating between coffee and red bull to relax your nerves

In all fairness, Tetris: The Grandmaster is just as mentally taxing as either DDP or Espgaluda (IMHO). But as others have mentioned, sometimes you need to take some time off from a game so your subconscious can digest it. Regardless of difficulty, a different kind of game probably helps you do this better than another game within the same genre.

Arvandor wrote:Sometimes when I start to become very familiar with a particular shooter I'll be less focused when playing it, and won't do as well as a result. Switching it up usually fixes this problem.

On that same note, I previously wrote:On the other hand, I also make more stupid mistakes as I become more familiar with a game. Once I've played the first few levels a zillion times, I get in a habit of playing them the same way over and over (even if it's not the best way). So it becomes second nature, and I kind of just zone out and play on autopilot. Then I end up making more clumsy mistakes early on, not sure if it's because of boredom, overconfidence, or what.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 911#145911

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:11 am

Yeah, that's my exact problem. Usually a month or two break from the genre will help entirely if just switching games up for a while doesn't. When I was playing Mars Matrix, I stopped playing video games altogether for around ... 6 months I think? I got totally consumed by reading for a while. When I came back to Mars Matrix, I had magically improved by not playing for 6 months =)