I'd like to get into 3D shmups now

Shinichi Chiba · Post by **Shinichi Chiba** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:17 pm

PooshhMao wrote:I'm confused - opinions on R-Type Final seem to be fairly divided.
I haven't played it (no PS2) - I do own Delta though, which I like a lot (although PS1 polygons look fugly)

How can Final be worse?

I guess the slowdown issues and just overall slow pace of the game , but to unlock 100+ ships is cool . I played the demo ver on a PSM disc and it was okay .

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:25 pm

My main gripe with Final is its level design. Even after the notoriously dull opening stage, there are a load of really boring, wide-open areas with none of the usual environmental negotiation going on (which I suppose has been a problem since Delta introduced the inability to crash into walls, but it didn't feel at all odd in that game). There's just not a lot happening in the first half of the game, I suppose, and its artistic ambitions don't really pull it through...

Still, it's worth slogging through it all for level 6.0

tviks · Post by **tviks** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:13 pm

I'm an R-type fan and I despise R-type Final. I don't know what the hell Irem was thinking, knowing that the game would be the final in the series, and still half-assing it.

And I wanted a shmup, not a frigging Gran Turismo. Not to mention the levels and music are crap.

nexus6 · Post by **nexus6** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:29 pm

i like 3d-shmups not really. the gameplay is still 2d and so theres no reason for 3d-grafics. the 2d-backgrounds have imho more style than the rendered one. a lot of "3d" shmups use the 3d-grafic only for incoming enemyships behind or in front of the player. that grabs only attention needed for the actions in your gameplay-layer.

on the other hand, i dont think that a real 3d-shmup would be playable. or if yes, than it would be a game that you cant call a shmup in the traditional way.

there exists a little bit of "3d-gameplay" in old shmups like "xevious". youve got enemys in the air and on the ground which can be destroyed with different weapons (shoots and bombs). in the most modern shmups all enemys get blasted with the same shot.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:59 pm

that grabs only attention needed for the actions in your gameplay-layer.

lurn2ply

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:02 pm

nexus6 wrote:the gameplay is still 2d and so theres no reason for 3d-grafics

OMFG LETZ MAKE EVERYTHING LOOK LIKE CARDBOARD

that'll definitely solve the problem of graphical distractionz

Shinichi Chiba · Post by **Shinichi Chiba** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:10 pm

shoe-sama wrote:
nexus6 wrote:the gameplay is still 2d and so theres no reason for 3d-grafics
OMFG LETZ MAKE EVERYTHING LOOK LIKE CARDBOARD

that'll definitely solve the problem of graphical distractionz

Paper R-Type anyone ?

Kaiser · Post by **Kaiser** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:13 pm

Shinichi Chiba wrote:
shoe-sama wrote:
nexus6 wrote:the gameplay is still 2d and so theres no reason for 3d-grafics
OMFG LETZ MAKE EVERYTHING LOOK LIKE CARDBOARD

that'll definitely solve the problem of graphical distractionz
Paper R-Type anyone ?

Nope. maybe Paper Ketsui? *is killed*

TKGB_Mental_Gear · Post by **TKGB_Mental_Gear** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:57 pm

Damn, there are more 3D shmups than I thought. But things aren't clear for me. Everyones just giving me all sorts of names.

I'm confused at what to get.

So to make things easier, all I got is a PS2, GameCube, and a old Dreamcast. I'm sure there aren't alot of options for GameCube and my Dreamcast has nothing to save the game so I'm leaning towards getting a shmup for the PS/PS2.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:06 pm

Einhander, Gradius V, then stop.

P_HAT · Post by **P_HAT** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:30 pm

Rob wrote:Einhander, Gradius V, then stop.

Einhander suck.
R-type Delta rocks.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:29 am

Gradius V
Ikaruga
R-Type Delta
Einhander

All must haves.

s/m

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:00 am

Border Down.
Why would you need to save anyway?

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:29 am

Yes, Einhänder is great, and it still looks good from today's point of view, especially when played on a PS2 with texture smoothing. Soundtrack is cool, too. It's not an arcade shooter, though.

P_HAT · Post by **P_HAT** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:42 am

Ceph wrote:Yes, Einhänder is great, and it still looks good from today's point of view, especially when played on a PS2 with texture smoothing. Soundtrack is cool, too. It's not an arcade shooter, though.

Looks good, plays bad.

Kaiser · Post by **Kaiser** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:13 am

P_HAT wrote:
Ceph wrote:Yes, Einhänder is great, and it still looks good from today's point of view, especially when played on a PS2 with texture smoothing. Soundtrack is cool, too. It's not an arcade shooter, though.
Looks good, plays bad.

Better than viper phase 1 with limited special weapon ammo.. die

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:34 pm

P_HAT wrote:
Ceph wrote:Yes, Einhänder is great, and it still looks good from today's point of view, especially when played on a PS2 with texture smoothing. Soundtrack is cool, too. It's not an arcade shooter, though.
Looks good, plays bad.

Did someone drop you on the head as a baby?

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:12 pm

Seriously, Einhander is one of the least irritating checkpoint shooters and an enemy chaining system that isn't completely retarded (this was later used in Metal Slug 6)

sfried · Post by **sfried** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:29 pm

I actually though Einhander controlled pretty well given it's 3D ships. Also, the hitbix isn't big as they claimed it to be.

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:17 pm

TKGB_Mental_Gear wrote:After getting Taito Legends 2 and enjoyed Darius-G and Raystorm

Border Down and Under Defeat is essentially more of the same. Two of my favourites, and at least worth a try.

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:27 pm

Bal-Sagoth wrote:My main gripe with Final is its level design. Even after the notoriously dull opening stage, there are a load of really boring, wide-open areas with none of the usual environmental negotiation going on (which I suppose has been a problem since Delta introduced the inability to crash into walls, but it didn't feel at all odd in that game). There's just not a lot happening in the first half of the game, I suppose, and its artistic ambitions don't really pull it through...

Still, it's worth slogging through it all for level 6.0

R-Type games have always included wide-open stages in the mix. Stages 5 & 8 of the first game, stage 6 of R-Type II, stage 5 of R-Type III, and stages 5 & 7 of Delta all either lack terrain completely or only have flat bands of it along the very top and bottom of the screen. Final does have a greater proportion of open stages than any of its family, but I don't see hating the game for that, unless you also hate the identically themed stages in its predecessors, and hate terrain-less horis (the elusive "verts in hori bodies" like Progear) in general.

The first several stages do run on the slow side. It didn't bother me too much personally, though you could try turning up the difficulty to fill in the blanks. The R-Type game that really got on my nerves with its slow parts was the Third Lightning, which loved to include looooog pauses in every stage, even the last one.

Krimzon Kitzune · Post by **Krimzon Kitzune** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:07 pm

shmups.system11.org

I'd like to get into 3D shmups now

Re: I'd like to get into 3D shmups now