Raiden's success

LRa · Post by **LRa** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:59 pm

How do you explain that the first Raiden had such a hugh success?
Nothing new, no revolutionary graphics, very good gameplay but again nothing special...
Sure it's fun but a lot of other shooters are fun and they didn't receive the fame Raiden received...

Sly Cherry Chunks · Post by **Sly Cherry Chunks** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:21 pm

Good distribution perhaps? The thing I remember about Raiden is that it was absolutely everywhere. There must've been one in every arcade.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:26 pm

Yup, I don't recall seeing twin cobra cabs everywhere, or anything like that. Still, Raiden is one hell of a game, I can see it doing well just on that--but you are probably right about distribution. Someone knew they had a winner and ran with it!

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:42 pm

distribution is no explanation, really. If a game is successful, it gets a wide distribution, and if it doesn´t do that well, distribution shrinks accordingly.
I´d say it´s the graphics. For that time, they were pretty realistic without getting dull. The difficulty curve is also rather effective. Just yesterday I read a Toaplan manual which states that an arcade game should have an average playing time of 2,5 minutes per credit to gain maximum profit. The average playing time for a beginner player in Raiden is longer, but that gives the impression of getting slightly more action per credit. In stage 3, on the other hand, the game gets considerably harder, ensuring that dedicated players still spend enough cash on the game.

yojo! · Post by **yojo!** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:39 pm

raiden wrote:Just yesterday I read a Toaplan manual which states that an arcade game should have an average playing time of 2,5 minutes per credit to gain maximum profit..

I read that once too; made me laught; back in the day when arcade were everywhere I would had never played a game if I were to only get 2.5 min of playtime.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:03 pm

2.5 mins game time for your average player on their first go? Sounds about right

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:06 am

Sometimes a game is more than the sum of its parts. I think Raiden is like that. It just had a certain something about it that meant almost everyone who saw it wanted to try it, and then when they played it they enjoyed it. Out Run was another game like that. Even if a casual gamer didn't get far in the game, they felt they achieved something. It is quite interesting to analyze and try to pin down what that certain "X factor" is for successful games like this. Developers try to analyze these things all the time and replicate the elements, but they don't always succeed. Using the games I mentioned, for example, Seibu seem to have succeeded similarly with their follow-up Raiden II/DX, but Sega failed to replicate the success of Out Run with the follow-up Turbo Outrun. There are still Out Run cabs in play today, but everyone forgot about Turbo Outrun within a year or two of its release.

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:57 am

^^ Excellent point. Certain games like Pacman, Galaga, Ms Pacman, Dig Dug, etc. have stood the test of time because they are just great games. The thing about Raiden is that it really is a solid, whole package. It's not revolutionary as mentioned above, but it does everything well. I've seen Raiden and Raiden II cabs still as recently as a year ago in a larger arcade. I'm not the world's biggest Raiden fan, either, but when I saw Raiden Project for PSX in a local game store 4 years ago I plunked down the money for it because I knew I had to have it in my collection; not just because of the increasing rarity, but because they are just really solid, enjoyable games.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:58 am

I remembered the Raiden cabs being everywhere but rarely seeing people actually play them. SFII was the order of the day back in the early 90's while I lived. I still don't find Raiden particularly fun but I guess at that time, there really wasn't a more competently designed shooter in the US.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:24 am

When I used to hang out in arcades, back in the early 90's, I saw Raiden II far more often than the first one. I think the success of Raiden II can be solely attributed to the purple toothpaste laser -- don't get me wrong, the gameplay is great, but that laser is still impressive today and was simply jaw-dropping back then.

LRa · Post by **LRa** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:28 am

it290 wrote:When I used to hang out in arcades, back in the early 90's, I saw Raiden II far more often than the first one. I think the success of Raiden II can be soley attributed to the purple toothpaste laser -- don't get me wrong, the gameplay is great, but that laser is still impressive today and was simply jaw-dropping back then.

That's a good explanation,and imo it contributed a lot to the popularity of the series, but as far as I know the first Raiden had a hugh success.

EddyMRA · Post by **EddyMRA** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:45 am

it290 wrote:When I used to hang out in arcades, back in the early 90's, I saw Raiden II far more often than the first one. I think the success of Raiden II can be soley attributed to the purple toothpaste laser -- don't get me wrong, the gameplay is great, but that laser is still impressive today and was simply jaw-dropping back then.

I've seen very few shmup weaponry that match or surpass the Raiden mk-II purple plasma laser in terms of awesomeness. I wonder why Raiden III did not incorporate that Laser? The screenshots I've seen have only the Red Vulcan, Blue forward laser, and the new green laser.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:22 am

I really don't remember very many shooters from back then. Well, I mean arcade shooters. (maybe I was focusing more on console games?)
Anyhow, I think Raiden was so popular mainly because it was put together and played equally well.
PLus, it had no gimmicks of any kind, which made it easy to learn, but yet hard to master. Basic premise of grab one of two powerups, with only two choices of missiles, allowed the player to quickly decide his strategy.
Hell, it was also cool when playing two players how the jets shots would meld into one another to form a new attack. (although it was kinda worthless)

Raiden is kinda like the band Metallica...there were/are lots of Heavy Metal bands, but Metallica just stood out from the rest. Even though there were some really great bands, Metallica's the one you think of first, just as is with Raiden.

PS: Just as long as we never see "Raiden Re-Load", I think all will be fine.

llabnip · Post by **llabnip** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:04 pm

Alluro wrote:I've seen very few shmup weaponry that match or surpass the Raiden mk-II purple plasma laser in terms of awesomeness. I wonder why Raiden III did not incorporate that Laser?

I think I'm the only one that doesn't like the purple weapon. I actively avoid it - it looks like goofy purple toothpaste. I'll generally stick to the standard vulcan or blue laser-like shots.

To answer the original question, I agree with those that say that Raiden just had a nice complete package. Even the music is catchy. All the little guys and cows running along the fields below... it just had wonderful atmosphere. Still one of my all-time favoraites and if you have a PSX you should own Raiden Project (Raiden 1 and 2) - having Raiden DX is no substitute (though you should own that as well!).

sffan · Post by **sffan** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:13 pm

Raiden must have come out after I stopped going to arcades because I don't remember it at all. I've tried it in mame but I prefer Xevious, which I did play in arcades.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:38 pm

sffan wrote:Raiden must have come out after I stopped going to arcades because I don't remember it at all. I've tried it in mame but I prefer Xevious, which I did play in arcades.

Dude, you are SOOOO old!!!

Raiden was an early 90's thing.

LRa · Post by **LRa** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:52 pm

What's the differemce between 2 and dx ?
But imo Raiden had such a success because although it's hard(after lvl 2-3) it still gives you the feeling that's it possible and that next time you'll get further.

sffan · Post by **sffan** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:19 pm

CMoon wrote:
sffan wrote:Raiden must have come out after I stopped going to arcades because I don't remember it at all. I've tried it in mame but I prefer Xevious, which I did play in arcades.
Dude, you are SOOOO old!!!

Raiden was an early 90's thing.

You're right, I'm 39. Out of high school in '84, out of college in '88. By that time I was totally out of touch with current arcade games.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:33 pm

People liked Raiden because of that BOMB WEAPON that had a cool WHEEEEW sound when you dropped it and then KABLOOOSHOOEY and left a huge cool crater in the ground.

And the music was very catchy.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:36 pm

tehkao wrote:People liked Raiden because of that BOMB WEAPON that had a cool WHEEEEW sound when you dropped it and then KABLOOOSHOOEY and left a huge cool crater in the ground.

And the music was very catchy.

Yea, the bombs were pretty intense...albiet slow, but intense!
Can you imagine if the cab would have featured a sub woofer!?

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:12 am

Not to mention all the little graphical nuances, like when ships are destroyed and the shrapnel falls to the ground and makes little ripples on the grass. Stuff like that makes it more realistic in a sense, and ups the ante for future shooters to follow suit or at least have a comparable level of detail.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:59 am

it290 wrote:When I used to hang out in arcades, back in the early 90's, I saw Raiden II far more often than the first one. I think the success of Raiden II can be solely attributed to the purple toothpaste laser -- don't get me wrong, the gameplay is great, but that laser is still impressive today and was simply jaw-dropping back then.

I didn't see ONE Raiden cabinet in the arcades- my first go at the game was on the Genesis. The second one did turn up in a few places near me though, and I've dropped tokens into a few Raiden DXs.

LRa- Raiden DX has some secrets not found in 2 (the small pillars that you can make appear by flying over certain spots on the ground and a medal system where you get more points for snagging a medal sooner, unless you try to nab it later when it flashes for a moment- getting even more points.). There are 3 missions to choose from when you start a game- Alpha which is like one big stage, Bravo featuring 5 stages from Raiden II, and Charlie which is like Raiden II with new layouts. If you finish Charlie Mission on one credit, you get an extra stage.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:33 am

I used to see Raiden in arcades all of the time and I think I have seen a few Raiden IIs too. I don't remember ever seeing Raiden DX. I have seen Aero Fighters, 19XX, 1942, Galaga 3, Galaga '88, Carrier Airwing, and UN Squadron in arcades too. Some of these were a long time ago, though the Galaga '88 was more recent and the arcade may actually still have it. I should try going to that mall again (I think it was the Glen Burnie mall). Maybe they still have Night Striker too.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:09 am

I didn't see ONE Raiden cabinet in the arcades- my first go at the game was on the Genesis. The second one did turn up in a few places near me though, and I've dropped tokens into a few Raiden DXs.

U must have lived in a really weird country...

Almost every single arcade back then had Raiden. It was Street Fighter 2 Turbo and Raiden in every arcade, pizza joint, and grocery store on the corner.