Recommend me an lcd monitor

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:07 am

I'm looking for a good LCD monitor that isn't widescreen, this will be mainly for shmups so it should easily twist to rotate. Can anyone recommend me one?

lewisit · Post by **lewisit** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:27 am

a tipp for easy rotating:

you can remove the stand from nearly every LCD and attach a cheap wall-mount like this to it:

that said because most rotatable LCDs rotate in the "wrong" direction for vertical-orientated games

concerning your monitor-question: whatever model you choose - make sure the “Response Time” is no bigger than 6ms

eight · Post by **eight** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:04 am

The Samsung 204B was my choice and I never regretted it since.

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:14 pm

Thanks for the answers, does anyone know of an lcd that rotates on its stand in the right direction for vertical games? I'm not really looking to put holes in the wall, although I'm sure you can buy a different stand to rotate it the other direction..

auryn · Post by **auryn** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:44 pm

The wrong-way rotation problem is no biggie if you'll be playing with your PC only, as you can usually rotate your windows display too in the video card settings.

I've got a Samsung Syncmaster 203B which is one way tateble. The image quality is great, very colourful and bright, but the response time is still an issue on this one (8ms). If things move quickly they get blurry and out of focus. This problem seems to be more annoying to me with sprite based games, whereas I don't mind it much in 3d.

eight · Post by **eight** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:45 pm

The Samsung does.

lewisit · Post by **lewisit** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:55 pm

auryn wrote:The wrong-way rotation problem is no biggie if you'll be playing with your PC only, as you can usually rotate your windows display too in the video card settings.

ok - i didn't think of that when suggesting the wallmount (i play DC/VGA on my LCD only and am therefore allways confronted with rotating-the-monitor-to-the-left)

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:11 pm

I should have explained better that I'll be using this for my DC and PS2.

I'll check out that monitor eight, thanks!

D · Post by D » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:11 pm

auryn wrote:The wrong-way rotation problem is no biggie if you'll be playing with your PC only, as you can usually rotate your windows display too in the video card settings.

I've got a Samsung Syncmaster 203B which is one way tateble. The image quality is great, very colourful and bright, but the response time is still an issue on this one (8ms). If things move quickly they get blurry and out of focus. This problem seems to be more annoying to me with sprite based games, whereas I don't mind it much in 3d.

Indeed, but..
That depends if you have certain drivers installed that allow you to do this.
These drivers would be for your video card. It is not a Windows XP functionality.
I wrote about this in a thread here on shmups probably about more than half a decade ago.
press:
CTRL+ALT+arrow in desired direction

lewisit · Post by **lewisit** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:35 pm

eight wrote:The Samsung does.

i don't wanna argue with you - but this is a Samsung 204B and it's rotated in the "wrong" direction (at least for DC-games)

or could it be that this monitor is rotatable in both directions?

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:38 pm

I've been looking at a lot of monitors and I've kind of given up on the ability to rotate the screen on its stand. I'll just have to buy a new stand or put holes in the wall.

So I guess now I'm looking for something that's at least 20 inches, isn't Widescreen, has RGB, and possibly rotates...

eight · Post by **eight** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:53 pm

Woah, damn, I didn't know that you wanted to use it for your DC and PS2.

I really don't know if the 204B is good for that kind of use. I'm not sure but I think you can rotate it in both directions, gonna test it this evening.

Post by **undamned** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:56 pm

auryn wrote:The wrong-way rotation problem is no biggie if you'll be playing with your PC only, as you can usually rotate your windows display too in the video card settings.

Not a problem for most JAMMA PCB's either. The only game I can recall ever not having the option to flip was Ketsui.
-ud

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:06 pm

This will most likely be solely for my DC, PS2, and Saturn. So that's why I added the need for RGB on there.

lewisit · Post by **lewisit** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:27 pm

i think i found a cure for your rotating-problem

if you get a monitor that is rotatable on it's stand (most likely in the wrong direction, but i'll solve this right now) - this is what you could do:

1. rotate the monitor on it's stand so that it locks like in the picture of the Samsung i posted before

2. unscrew the monitor from the stand (not moving the stand back in "neutral" position!)

3. rotate just the monitor to "vertical" & screw it back on the stand (this is no problem because the 4 screw-holes are allways alined in a square)

4. you are now able to turn your LCD 90° to the right (i.e. to it's former "neutral" position)

5. *joy*

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:59 pm

Yeah that just might work, good thinking!

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:18 pm

It actually works with most monitors which use standard 100mm VESA mounts. Some monitors don't though and on a few models you will run into problems with the cabling.

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:45 pm

That's what I did with mine. Some monitors, like Dell monitors, won't let you do that with the built in stands though.

You can just buy this stand, it's a good one:
link

Also mentioned earlier about response time... the response time listed is just the time it takes for pixels to change color. A slow response time gives you ghosting, but (usually cheap) LCD monitors can also have input lag in addition to that, which will ruin you pretty good.

Also, cheap TN panels have poor vertical viewing angles and are designed to be viewed from the normal landscape perspective. TATEing them can often give you a pretty crappy quality picture as the picture will get dark or off-colored to one side. For a better quality TATE you'll probably need to get a non-TN panel.

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:02 pm

Thanks for the stand suggestion! Also what does "TN" mean since I'm a noob to this stuff?

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:24 pm

When it comes to LCDs, the type of panel and who made the panel are often a lot more important than the company who slapped their name on the thing.

A brief rundown on them from the HardForum:

TN Gamers
Considered a "gamers" panel due to it's fast pixel response times which reduces trailing images know as "ghosting". However, this advantage has been reduced by new technologies to accelerate pixel response times in other panel types. Colors and contrast tend to be weak and blacks are not truly dark. Viewing angles are significantly limited. However, monitors based on this technology tend to be inexpensive.

IPS / S-IPS Graphics Work or Web Browsing
Considered to have the best color reproduction of all panel types, these panels are well suited for graphics work or web browsing. Pixel response time is also good but slower than the TN "gamers" panel. Contast and blacks are also less dark than VA panels but viewing angles are excellent.

MVA / P-MVA / PVA / S-PVA Compromise for All-Around Use
These panels are a compromise between the fast pixel response times of the TN panel and the excellent color reproduction of the IPS panels. Contrast and blacks are best of all the panel types. Viewing angles are similar but slightly inferior to IPS.

TN panels are nice because they are inexpensive and have good response times. The poor viewing angles can hurt, especially with TATE. Having used both an LG224 (a TN panel) and a Dell 2007WFP (S-IPS or S-PVA) in TATE, the difference in viewing angles is pretty huge.

Not sure why you don't want a widescreen though... the 4:3 and 5:4 panels tend to be more expensive these days, when they can be found at all.

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:40 pm

It's just that having the black bars annoys me, I guess I'd consider going to a widescreen...

Take a look at this and see what you think, seems good.

http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/ga ... ml?tag=sub

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:26 am

I looked it up and despite what C-net says, that's a TN panel. If you ever want to check, hit up this site:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/

However, Gateway does make some S-PVA panels, FPD2185W and FPD2485W. The 24" model is probably going to run around 600-700$ though.

One thing about 22" though is that it's an 'inbetween' size. You only get the resolutions of 20" on it, so it's just bigger in size. Also, it only tops out at 1680x1050, which means you can't do 1080i or 1080p, if you care about that at all.

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:30 pm

Thanks for the link, I'm having a really really had time finding what I'm looking for.

At this point here's what I'm looking for.

19 Inches (Non-Widescreen)
MVA, PVA, S-PVA (Any will do)
Under 6ms
Should either pivot to the left for vertical games or detach from base.
RGB

So I looked all last night and I found some models that were MVA or PVA but they were all old models that you can't find anymore (weird).

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:10 pm

Will any of these LCD monitors work with the XRGB2?

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:07 am

JJG wrote:19 Inches (Non-Widescreen)
MVA, PVA, S-PVA (Any will do)
Under 6ms
Should either pivot to the left for vertical games or detach from base.
RGB

Actually, under 6 ms is physically impossible for *VA matrices without any obstructive measures. Any manufacturer boasting <10 ms for *VA matrix either cheats or means grey-to-grey color transition, which is inarguably faster than full-cycle (say, black to black, which can be as long as 16+ ms for a 6 ms GtG). In other words, don't trust this parameter too much. Another point why you shouldn't, is that after a certain threshold the response time doesn't matter anymore -- when it passes the boundary of the retinal persistence (this article is a good read).

I haven't done any researches on the models with RGB input, though... I'm not sure, but something like Iiyama ProLite H1900 could have one (likely through an adapter; I haven't researched the capabilities of adapters, either).

Beside that, I should note that particular brands don't matter as much as the matrices manufacturers and the matrices themselves, though companies like NEC, Samsung, Apple, EIZO and BenQ generally have rather good signal-to-noise ratio among their products.

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:12 am

Thanks for the advice and the article, I'll check it out. The more I'm learning it kind of seems like lcd monitors aren't ready for Shmups, maybe I should just stick to my CRT for the time being.

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:32 am

I wouldn't really recommend running a PCB through it, but MAME and PS2 stuff through the capture card is quite good. And really, a PCB through a capture card is alright as long as you've got a good capture card.

BTW, a 22" widescreen running in 4:3 has roughly the same viewable area as a 19" non-widescreen.

Dell has a few pretty good monitors. I've run some stuff on the 2007WFP and it's all looked pretty good. Very good for TATE as well. Their next one up, the 2407WFP, is really nice but also around 700$.

I'd say check out the 2007WFP if you aren't strictly against widescreen, although you'll have to buy a new stand because the dumb one that comes with it ONLY rotates in the wrong direction.