Need advice and input from members for shmup t-shirts

Jedah Doma · Post by **Jedah Doma** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:12 am

I started my new job working for a company called Opinions R Fun. Yes, I know the name is cheesy as hell, but it's what the boss wanted. Anyway, I was hired on as a graphic designer to make designs for shirts, hats, mugs, stickers, and a whole slew of other stuff. So far I'm really enjoying the new job.

She basically gives us free reign to design what we want to, and I am planning to take advantage of that fact. I know there have been members that have ordered shirts with Ikaruga art and other shmup goodness. I want to make some designs that you folks would buy and that is why I started this thread. I want to know any ideas, thoughts, comments, and anything else you have to say about some great shmup/video game t-shirts. As it is, most video game t-shirts are pretty crappy, so I'd like to change that.

At this point I'm not sure of all the legality issues dealing with some material that would be copyrighted. In the case of the Ikaruga shirts I saw, I figured since the ship pictured was so non descript it wouldn't be a specific copyright violation, but hey, what do I know. If anyone has any advice or loop holes on that front, I would appreciate any advice.

The best part is we can print on any color from white, black, blue, red, and many more. Add to that we don't use screen printing. This means no extra charge for more colors and the ink that goes onto the shirts is actually printed onto the fabric so it won't wash away and peel like the cheapy press on or screen printing techniques. The other benefit of not using screen printing is there is a flat charge of $11-$13 for each shirt, and of course a discount for bulk orders. So it's more then affordable. That means not having to pay a crapload of money for screen printed BS.

If you have any questions, please respond here or shoot me a PM. I'm hoping to have a ton of great video game t-shirts ready in the next few months so folks like us can buy shirts that we're proud to wear. Thanks for any and all help in advance.

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:27 am

Like I said at the NG forums, more shmup shirts are good.

bsidwell · Post by **bsidwell** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:22 am

[18:32] <Sidwell> I want a shirt with paisley made out of Touhou bullet patterns.

This was a joke, but the more I think about it the more I like the idea.

Jedah Doma · Post by **Jedah Doma** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:25 am

bsidwell wrote:[18:32] <Sidwell> I want a shirt with paisley made out of Touhou bullet patterns.

This was a joke, but the more I think about it the more I like the idea.

You have a picture of it? Sounds cool.

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:15 am

I always thought it was a good idea to have a games logo on the front of the tee with a screencap of the game on the back. Maybe a crazy moment, or a screen full of enemies, bullets, or a boss.

For instance, you could have a shirt with the Dragon Blaze Logo/Characters on the front, and on the back a screen full of enemies and gold coins. Then you culd put a Psikyo logo on the sleeve.

overkill55 · Post by **overkill55** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:54 am

Very cool to hear of a fellow Graphic Designer (well, I am still going to school for it

)

I am excited that there is the possibility of having a stateside shirt-maker (I assume you are in the US). As for ideas...well I guess it would depend on the vectors you have, if any. Personally I would like a Cave or Raizing logo shirt with maybe the title of one of the company's games on the sleeve

stanski · Post by **stanski** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:27 am

I would pay for a picture of someone playing Dodonpachi (regular or DOJ) and facing Hibachi (Bee form is probably best). "Dodonpachi" or some other nice text would be cool.

Or something similar for a bunch of other shmups would be cool.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:11 am

i still want a hawaiian style batrider shirt!

Jedah Doma · Post by **Jedah Doma** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:05 pm

overkill55 wrote:Very cool to hear of a fellow Graphic Designer (well, I am still going to school for it )

I am excited that there is the possibility of having a stateside shirt-maker (I assume you are in the US). As for ideas...well I guess it would depend on the vectors you have, if any. Personally I would like a Cave or Raizing logo shirt with maybe the title of one of the company's games on the sleeve

Yea, that's going to be the interesting thing, trying to find vector art for all the obscure companies. If there is none, I might have to whip some up myself. I'll see what I can find.

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:28 pm

First-up, follow this thread around.

Basically, there's 3 main types of shirts you should make:

1. Take a significant icon, like a Batrider medal, a vert ship just launching its beam, a blue lander, a Raiden Fighters character select screen, whatever.
- Remove any text/written logos
- 1-color it (2-color max)
- don't make icon fucking huge
- don't add "your own super-clever text" 9/10 it hurts the shirt.
- partially fade it. (optional)

examples

*note the megaman shirt woulda been 3x cooler if "megaman" wasn't written on it.

2. Game company or game title logo: Cave, Treasure, Compile, old Konami, Ketsui, Garegga, etc.
- 1-color it
- official logo text optional
- don't make it freakin' huge.
- partially fade it. (optional)
- add it to any type of non-plain-color shirt, like camo, gradiants, etc. (optional)
- on back of the shirt, may choose to add a popular quote from the company or game "Be attitude for gains" or whatever. Keep it small, low contrast, and not huge. Choose the slogan carefully, but usually best to leave this part out altogether. (optional)
- also just doing the logo but instead of logo text, use the popular quote in its place is acceptable when done correctly (optional)

3. Take a game screenshot:
- 1or2-color it
- blend the edges of the screenshot into the shirt. Make it fade out or chop unnecessary background in a way so it's not obvious you just stuck a rectangle on a shirt.
- you should probably pre-fade something somewhere i.e. that mushroom shirt above
- front or back optional

I don't know any examples because it's never been done right.

O If your designed t-shirt can have a full button-down Express, American Eagle, etc.-type shirt thrown over it left unbuttoned while going to most places with a preppy-esq girlfriend, it is a go.

O When in doubt, make the picture smaller

O Try your best to design on a non-plain-black t-shirt FIRST. If it doesn't work, retreat to the plain-black. Way too many plain-black shirts w/design out there than anything else.

O Shirts that casually reference what you like. Good
X Shirts that shout you're a nerd/geek/dork/jock. Bad
Figure out the difference.

X Avoid 8-bit anything & Avoid all nintendo staples.
-Done to death
-The indie hipsters and anybody else who make it plainly obvious within 5 minutes of conversation they don't play video games have taken this fashion over. Abandon it.

X Avoid bright/neon heavy contrasting colors
- any donkey kong stage sprites or pac man ghosts look terrible on a black shirt. Avoid anything with similar results.

X If your upcoming design looks or feels any bit like the following examples below:

...trash the design at all costs...or set it on fire.

good luck, man

Jedah Doma · Post by **Jedah Doma** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:09 pm

The question is, what would be the legality in me using those images and logos. I'd love to do all that, but I'm not to fond of getting my ass sued off. I'm hoping to find a loophole in the cpyright laws to get past this, but I'm clueless as to what is and is not acceptable.

stanski · Post by **stanski** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 pm

I'd love a shirt with the donpachi "Warning" and following text. Would be really neat and pretty simple IMO.

Shion · Post by **Shion** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:53 pm

Jedah Doma wrote:The question is, what would be the legality in me using those images and logos. I'd love to do all that, but I'm not to fond of getting my ass sued off. I'm hoping to find a loophole in the cpyright laws to get past this, but I'm clueless as to what is and is not acceptable.

I don't think that selling your own made shirts with copyrighted trademarks is allowed. I suppose fan art would be fine, and I doubt a company like Cave would sue you for selling some t-shirts with their logo on it. But if it's copyrighted it is illegal as far as I know. I wonder what kind of loopholes you can come up with

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:13 pm

I could be wrong but I think copyrights have to be filed in their respective countries, and I doubt (for example) Cave has copyrighted their logo in America or Europe since they do no business outside of Japan. Would your company be selling the shirts worldwide?

And can anyone verify anything I just said for absolute certain

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:19 pm

Awesome post, DJI.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:50 pm

Rob wrote:Awesome post, DJI.

cody · Post by **cody** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:02 pm

szycag wrote:I could be wrong . . . can anyone verify anything I just said for absolute certain

I can verify that your understanding is, at best, flawed:

http://www.copyrightaid.co.uk/copyright ... ignatories

Opinions R Fun is in kansas, which is in the US
Cave is in Japan
Both the US and Japan are signatories to the berne convention . . .

Jedah Doma, I understand the temptation, but it isn't all that useful to ask random people on a forum for legal advice. Ask a lawyer. Most won't charge you for a brief consultation to determine whether they can help you.

Sword · Post by **Sword** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:58 am

cody wrote:
szycag wrote:I could be wrong . . . can anyone verify anything I just said for absolute certain
I can verify that your understanding is, at best, flawed:

http://www.copyrightaid.co.uk/copyright ... ignatories

Opinions R Fun is in kansas, which is in the US
Cave is in Japan
Both the US and Japan are signatories to the berne convention . . .

In the case of company logos copyright isn't even relevant. Logos are trademarks, and need to be registered in every country where you want them protected.

Slogans and ship designs are subjected to copyright law, tho.

PooshhMao · Post by **PooshhMao** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:39 am

Be sure to make a 'the port ever' one.

cody · Post by **cody** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:56 pm

Sword wrote: In the case of company logos copyright isn't even relevant. Logos are trademarks, and need to be registered in every country where you want them protected.

Slogans and ship designs are subjected to copyright law, tho.

You're showing a better understanding of copyright vs. trademark law, but what you are saying is still flawed. There is overlap between copyright and trademark. Single words and short slogans are usually not copyrightable subject matter ( http://www.bitlaw.com/source/37cfr/202_1.html ). However, graphic design may be copyrightable subject matter, in addition to serving as an identifying mark; see e.g. http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... usion.html for an example of this kind of overlap (even though the court arguably got the analysis mixed up). Also note that registration is not necessarily a prerequisite for enforcement of trademarks . . .

Anyway, like I said, don't rely on random forum folks for legal advice.

Sword · Post by **Sword** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:50 pm

cody wrote: You're showing a better understanding of copyright vs. trademark law, but what you are saying is still flawed. There is overlap between copyright and trademark. Single words and short slogans are usually not copyrightable subject matter ( http://www.bitlaw.com/source/37cfr/202_1.html ). However, graphic design may be copyrightable subject matter, in addition to serving as an identifying mark; see e.g. http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... usion.html for an example of this kind of overlap (even though the court arguably got the analysis mixed up).

/Rant on
Yeah, well, of course i know a lot more about Dutch copyright law than American. There are some slight differences there (since they are mostly based on a different rationale), so take this with a grain of salt. I can at least tell you some really short (four words or so) slogans *are* protected by copyright. And almost all logos will lack the amount of originality needed for protection under copyright. Since the words themselves will rarely be original ('Cave'), that only leaves the graphical element. Please note that graphical 'styles' also are not protected, so that it's a pretty 'thin' protection we're talking about here.. I don't deny there can be some overlap between trademark and copyright protection, tho

cody wrote: Also note that registration is not necessarily a prerequisite for enforcement of trademarks . . .

Ehh, not really.. But if you haven't registered and aren't actively using your trademark in that particular geographical area, it loses its protection. I think shmup company logos are mostly fair game in the USA (especially older ones). One would have to check this, of course.
/Rant off

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:54 am

Thanks for the info both of you. But yeah I'd seek further info from a professional of course.

This guy knows what's up. Too bad Gaiares is no longer (or was ever) number one.

overkill55 · Post by **overkill55** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:04 am

szycag wrote:Thanks for the info both of you. But yeah I'd seek further info from a professional of course.

This guy knows what's up. Too bad Gaiares is no longer (or was ever) number one.

I like his mullet

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:39 am

szycag wrote:Thanks for the info both of you. But yeah I'd seek further info from a professional of course.

This guy knows what's up. Too bad Gaiares is no longer (or was ever) number one.

For szycag,

Can you make that cool Gaiares pic a little bit bigger? I'd like to read the accompanying text... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~