Worst Ketsui review ever

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:12 pm

MrMonkeyMan wrote: But the loops in Ketsui are completely different..

2nd loops are generally a problem I never have to deal with.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:17 pm

EOJ wrote:Good review. The only part I had a problem with was this:

"What else can one compare to this? The Mushis are way too complicated; the Galudas are not only too complicated but also too easy; the Ibaras and Muchi Muchi Pork! rely on the most artificial scoring gimmick ever invented (i.e. rank-based medalling)"

You haven't played much Mushi Futari 1.5, have you? It plays very similarly to Ketsui (it's basically an expansion of the ketsui scoring system), and is actually not complicated at all. Also, Galuda 2 is far from easy. I've never heard anyone say it's easy (except you).

No, I have not played Mushi Futari 1.5 at all -- though I have played a good deal of the initial version. I am curious about 1.5, but I am not touching it until I have reviewed 1.0. But if 1.5's scoring system is "an expansion of Ketsui's" then by definition it has to be more complex than Ketsui's -- right?

But anyway Mushi Futari is far from being my choice for top Cave game, for other reasons besides its system.

As for the comment about the Galudas, you have to see it in the context of the review. When I say that "the Galudas are too easy" I don't mean literally too easy, as in "Golden Axe easy" or as in "your kid brother can 1CC it on his second credit easy". I mean too easy compared to the rest of the games I mentioned in that paragraph. I mean too easy to qualify for the kind of difficulty that is necessary for many of the top players to even consider pronouncing it best Cave game ever.

(Note: I am not saying you are not a top player, because of course you are. I am just saying that you are one of the people who pick oddballs, as I mentioned in the review. (And I am sure you are not the only one among the top players of this forum.))

EOJ wrote:BTW there's an error in your Mushihime-tama review. You say those helpful bombs from Uo Poko aren't in the game. But actually they are --they drop down for your use, and in some stages they are in the actual stage patterns. I guess you didn't get far enough in the game to see them (??).

Thanks for the tip. No, I never got to that stage. What happened was, I one day saw the game at Leisure Land, and since it was the first time I saw it in an arcade, I decided I just just had to review it. So I played a bunch of credits one day, then I go back the next day and play some more, as well as make the three videos, and then the next day the game was gone. So I thought, what the hell, no one else has bothered reviewing it, so I might as well.

If I ever find the game again I will play it more and edit my review accordingly. I might even revise the score. The problem is finding the game, as it appears to be quite rare in arcades, and I have no wish to buy the PCB.

EOJ wrote: PPS- You mention Valgar a few times in your review. The ironic thing is he is actually going to sell his Ketsui kit very soon because he doesn't think it's worth what it sells for, and he'd rather have the cash. EDIT: He's just put his kit up for sale in the trading forum here.

I don't see the irony. I never expected him to take his Ketsui kit to his grave. (lol, yeah, maybe i did

)

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:23 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:And yeah, Galuda II is definitely not easy. We only have 3 ALLs (out of 22 posters) in the HS thread.

See my reply to TWE above, and also, I bet the lack of ALLs has something to do with the fact that Galuda II is relatively new (at least compared to Ketsui, for example) and has not been ported or emulated, so few people can actually have a go at it.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:35 pm

icycalm wrote: No, I have not played Mushi Futari 1.5 at all -- though I have played a good deal of the initial version. I am curious about 1.5, but I am not touching it until I have reviewed 1.0. But if 1.5's scoring system is "an expansion of Ketsui's" then by definition it has to be more complex than Ketsui's -- right?

Reviewing 1.0 is pretty much a waste of time at this point. While the PCB is still out there are some arcades, it's pretty much obsolete. The competitive players in Japan only play 1.5, and the scoring systems are fundamentally different as in 1.5 they boosted the proximity factor, they added the ketsui-ish "hold C and press A when the chaining bar is red to get max large gems" feature in Maniac mode, made bosses milkable, added an Ultra mode, tweaked the strengths of the characters, etc. Futari 1.5 is an absolute masterpiece of a game, and the Ultra mode is the hardest (non-looping) shooter ever created.

But anyway Mushi Futari is far from being my choice for top Cave game, for other reasons besides its system.

I agree with you that Futari 1.0 is far from a top Cave game. But 1.5 really is amazingly good. I mean, it's basically 3 different games in one (Original, Maniac, and Ultra all play very differently, they all have different scoring systems as well).

As for the comment about the Galudas, you have to see it in the context of the review. When I say that "the Galudas are too easy" I don't mean literally too easy, as in "Golden Axe easy" or as in "your kid brother can 1CC it on his second credit easy". I mean too easy compared to the rest of the games I mentioned in that paragraph. I mean too easy to qualify for the kind of difficulty that is necessary for many of the top players to even consider pronouncing it best Cave game ever.

Sorry, your flaw still lies in how you lump Galuda 1 and 2 together. Even compared to the other Cave games, Galuda 2 is not easy. Mushi 1 (sans Ultra) is easier. Mushi Futari 1.5 (sans Ultra) is easier. Ibara Kuro: Black Label is easier. Heck, I even find Ketsui's first loop easier than Galuda 2. Galuda 1 is quite easy indeed, easier than anything else in your list. But not Galuda 2. That's what GJP also mentioned by the way.

I am just saying that you are one of the people who pick oddballs, as I mentioned in the review. (And I am sure you are not the only one among the top players of this forum.))

I'm not sure what you mean by "oddballs"?

Thanks for the tip. No, I never got to that stage. What happened was, I one day saw the game at Leisure Land, and since it was the first time I saw it in an arcade, I decided I just just had to review it. So I played a bunch of credits one day, then I go back the next day and play some more, as well as make the three videos, and then the next day the game was gone. So I thought, what the hell, no one else has bothered reviewing it, so I might as well.

They don't show up until 3-1, I believe. The game is awesome once you play it for awhile. There's even a TLB in it!!

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:37 pm

icycalm wrote:
I bet the lack of ALLs has something to do with the fact that Galuda II is relatively new (at least compared to Ketsui, for example) and has not been ported or emulated, so few people can actually have a go at it.

Not likely. Futari 1.5 is over a year newer, and there are way more ALLs on the hi score charts here than the Galuda 2 chart.

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:43 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by "oddballs"?

he means you picked the Maserati

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:54 pm

Zebra Airforce wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "oddballs"?
he means you picked the Maserati

So Futari 1.5 is a Maserati?? That's a lousy analogy. Futari's Ultra mode beats the shit out of Ketsui. People have 2-ALL'd Ketsui left and right, but there are like 2-3 people in the world who can 1CC Futari's Ultra mode on defaults.

Let's see some of the people on the Futari DVD: ISO, TAC, SWY. Hmm, yeah, basically the three best shooting game players on the planet. Were any of them on the Ketsui DVD?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:01 am

I bet the lack of ALLs has something to do with the fact that Galuda II is relatively new (at least compared to Ketsui, for example) and has not been ported or emulated, so few people can actually have a go at it.

I think anyone that owns it has had a go at it, seeing as how they've spent at least $500 on it. Go check out the HS thread. Quite a few people went from complete shit to decent score on stage 6. It's a rough game though. Definitely harder than Futari 1.5 Maniac (although Futari's stage 4 gave me a lot of trouble).

If you want to review 1.0, you're going to be hard pressed to find one. The only place I know that has one is Mikado in Shinjuku. No telling how long it will be there.

Futari's Ultra mode beats the shit out of Ketsui.

I don't think anyone's referring to difficulty. Also pointing out the number of people who can clear it isn't really here or there (at least in this case). How many people even attempt Ultra mode with two other playable modes? A handful, at best. At Game Inn Namiki's peak, they had seven Ketsui cabs. I'd be interested to know how long it took the first person to beat Doom. SYO said it took him 7 months playing 3 hours a day.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:10 am

EOJ wrote:
Zebra Airforce wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "oddballs"?
he means you picked the Maserati
So Futari 1.5 is a Maserati?? That's a lousy analogy. Futari's Ultra mode beats the shit out of Ketsui. People have 2-ALL'd Ketsui left and right, but there are like 2-3 people in the world who can 1CC Futari's Ultra mode on defaults.

Let's see some of the people on the Futari DVD: ISO, TAC, SWY. Hmm, yeah, basically the three best shooting game players on the planet. Were any of them on the Ketsui DVD?

Dude, one game has been out a few months, the other three and a half years. Let's wait another three years for Futari to catch up, and we can talk about it again at that time.

And again, though I am well aware that Galuda 2 is much harder than 1, the fact that at any point during these games you can go into Kakusei for an easier ride puts them out of the "higher difficulty" race, as far as I am concerned.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:51 am

Gaijinpunch wrote: I don't think anyone's referring to difficulty

Actually, that's precisely what icycalm was referring to. See this passage:

But -- and here's the gist of all this -- since we are talking about experienced racers here, their choices will naturally be skewed towards race-bred cars: the Ferraris and the Porsches, basically. But there will always be a few who, for whatever reason, will show preference for an oddball -- a TVR or a Maserati.

Extending this analogy to Cave shooters -- performance-driven beasts one and all -- you'll find that the best players (whose opinions, as I explained, are the only ones that matter in this case) will naturally tend to prefer the harder games (it's no coincidence that guys like Valgar and Plasmo have a distaste for the Galudas) -- and it's in this respect where Ketsui trumps every other challenger except DOJ. With its unusually fast pace and thick swarms of bullets which start raining down on the player nearly from the get-go, it completely overloads beginners, while giving veterans exactly the kind of challenge that they are looking for

This leads back to my point of how the top players in Japan are all on the Futari DVD, while none of them are on the Ketsui DVD. So the top Japanese players all prefer a Maserati?

The fact of the matter is the top Japanese players play the best games. Difficulty is one piece of this, but not the only one. SWY is obviously a masochist who loves the hardest of the hard games (hence his 3.6 Billion ALL with Reco in Futari's Ultra mode on the DVD), but ISO and TAC seem to gravitate more towards "high risk, high return" score-based systems like Galuda 2, Futari 1.5's Original and Maniac modes, etc.

GaijinPunch wrote:Also pointing out the number of people who can clear it isn't really here or there (at least in this case). How many people even attempt Ultra mode with two other playable modes? A handful, at best.

Well why don't people attempt Ultra mode? Maybe it has something to do with it being hard as hell? I mean, when you select Ultra mode, it asks if you're "prepared to accept an honorable death". Far more than a handful of people in Japan play Ultra mode as well. I've seen more than a few blogs of people who are trying to 1CC it to no avail. This mode seems popular in Taiwan and Hong Kong arcades as well, but so far no one there has 1CC'd it on defaults (that I'm aware of).

icycalm wrote:
Dude, one game has been out a few months, the other three and a half years. Let's wait another three years for Futari to catch up, and we can talk about it again at that time.

Futari 1.5 has been out for 8 and half months. That does not equal "a few months". The game has 2 TLBs (after the last boss, which is ridiculously hard itself) and extends at 250 and 650mil. It's pure pain.

I've played Futari's Ultra mode a lot. Probably 40-60 hours. I've gotten to stage 3 once (on default extends). Never has a game pushed me back so hard over and over. It's like getting punched in the face repeatedly.

You haven't played Ultra mode yet. Next time you go to Japan, give it a few credits. Until you play it, you really won't understand how hard it is. You'll be amazed at how hard it is to even beat the first stage.

But sure, let's discuss this in 3 years or so. I'm sure even then there won't be many who have 1CC'd Futari's Ultra mode.

And again, though I am well aware that Galuda 2 is much harder than 1, the fact that at any point during these games you can go into Kakusei for an easier ride puts them out of the "higher difficulty" race, as far as I am concerned.

I'm starting to wonder how much you've actually played of Galuda 2.
Well, you can believe having a kakusei system automatically makes the game "easy", or you can take the word of just about any competitive player who has played Galuda 2 and the other Cave games on PCB. I've played everything but MMP, and GJP has played everything.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:15 am

Dude, it's like in that thread about the arcade culture. No matter how hard I try to make my meaning clear as day to you, you have this uncanny ability to misunderstand me (because that's all this is -- a misunderstanding), and not only that, but you also go one step further by insulting me -- insinuating in your reply that I haven't played enough of Galuda II or whatever, and that I am talking out of my ass.

Bottom line is you are either incapable of understanding what I am saying to you, or you just don't want to. Either way, this isn't worth my time.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:17 am

I wasn't trying to insult you (please do not take my comments that way). But I do question how much you have played of Galuda 2, since your opinion of its difficulty is so different from anyone else who has played it around here. How far have you gotten in the game, what's your best score, have you 1CC'd it, etc? Give us some context for your opinion. My best is the last form of the Stage 6 boss with a score of 367mil.

I don't see how this is a misunderstanding (what exactly am I misunderstanding?). You raise a point, I provide evidence to refute your point, you say I don't understand what you're saying and "it isn't worth your time" to answer me, and that's the end of it. What's wrong with a healthy debate?

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:56 am

There's nothing wrong with a healthy debate, of course. But try as I might, I do not seem to be able to make you understand what I am saying. You seem to be content to keep splitting hairs on inconsequential points, while missing the big picture -- which is what I am trying to impart to my readers with my reviews/articles.

In the present discussion, I've already given it my best shot -- perhaps my best is not good enough, I'll even allow that the fault is all on my side, that perhaps I am not capable of expressing my views succintly enough -- but what more can I do?

Anyway, my Galuda II score is around 89mil Stage 5. And for the record I have played Mushihime's Ultra mode quite a bit, and I plan to play Futari 1.5's Ultra mode when the time comes.

But my opinion of Galuda II's difficulty stands. If I didn't care about score at all I bet I could have come very close to 1CCing it -- not so with Ketsui. And when you throw in either of Ketsui's second loops, there's just no question of which game is harder.

As for the Ultra modes of the two Mushis, these are out of the competition for top Cave game, as far as I am concerned, for the same reason that DOJ is -- i.e. too much pattern.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:15 am

icycalm wrote:There's nothing wrong with a healthy debate, of course. But try as I might, I do not seem to be able to make you understand what I am saying. You seem to be content to keep splitting hairs on inconsequential points, while missing the big picture -- which is what I am trying to impart to my readers with my reviews/articles.

Sorry, it's a just a by-product of my job & life in academia. I am trained to split hairs and analyse every argument hyper-critically.

I do this when I read and review papers written by scholars in my field, and I do it when I read any review online as well. Maybe I'll try to not be so anal about game reviews and such.

As I stated in the beginning, I thought it was a good review. I only had a problem with some small ("splitting hairs") things. But since I'm such a huge (rather passionate) fan of Cave games, I often get into debates about even the smallest details.

Anyway, my Galuda II score is around 89mil Stage 5. And for the record I have played Mushihime's Ultra mode quite a bit, and I plan to play Futari 1.5's Ultra mode when the time comes.

Thanks for the info. Not a bad Galuda II score, especially since you don't have the PCB to practice with at home.

But my opinion of Galuda II's difficulty stands. If I didn't care about score at all I bet I could have come very close to 1CCing it -- not so with Ketsui. And when you throw in either of Ketsui's second loops, there's just no question of which game is harder.

Fair enough. I don't think anyone would say Galuda II is harder than either of Ketsui's loops, but do try and think of Galuda II compared with Mushi and Mushi Futari 1.5 (when you play it). The main problem with Galuda II is the last boss is so hard. And it's a long game with a very complex scoring system. I have tried a few times recently to 1CC it with asagi and basically just use kakusei (no zesshikai), but I still can't do it yet. It's that damn last boss.

I am a proponent of distinguishing between a "hard game to 1CC" versus a "hard game to score & 1CC". Galuda 2 may be an easier game to 1CC if you ignore scoring, but once you try and get into the scoring system, it makes the game very difficult to 1CC. Some people do not like this distinction, however, and prefer to label a game's difficulty in a holistic fashion.

As for the Ultra modes of the two Mushis, these are out of the competition for top Cave game, as far as I am concerned, for the same reason that DOJ is -- i.e. too much pattern.

I agree with that. But what about the whole package of a Mushi or a Mushi futari 1.5? Where you have 3 different game modes, each tailored for a different type of player? And different scoring systems within? It's pretty nice for one game to give so much variety, and indeed, I can't think of another Cave game that does.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:45 am

EOJ wrote:I agree with that. But what about the whole package of a Mushi or a Mushi futari 1.5? Where you have 3 different game modes, each tailored for a different type of player? And different scoring systems within? It's pretty nice for one game to give so much variety, and indeed, I can't think of another Cave game that does.

Well, yeah, the whole package is indeed awesome. There is just so much replay value in these modes, that Cave should be charging the arcade operators 50% extra or some shit. And they are wonderful games to look at (though one of my problems with Futari is that stages 1 and 4 are very very plain and similar-looking, something which to a degree is true of stages 1 and 2 of the original Mushi), and I also love their soundtracks, etc.

But the problem is the scoring systems. You can learn to love them, but it doesn't come natural. And that, whichever way you slice it, is a fault.

Given that Ketsui has no faults, it comes out on top, as far as I am concerned.

Of course the distance between them is not great -- they ARE all masterpieces -- but what's the point of reviewing a bunch of games if you are not going to compare them?

In Cave's case, it's a tough job. In fact I cannot think of any other game company which can give a reviewer as many headaches as Cave. In the amount of time I spend playing and researching about a Cave review I can review 5 to 10 mainstream titles, and that's no exaggeration, god bless them.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:07 am

icycalm wrote: But the problem is the scoring systems. You can learn to love them, but it doesn't come natural. And that, whichever way you slice it, is a fault.

Please read my Futari 1.5 strategy guide in the strategy forums here. Unlike Mushi 1, Futari 1.5's scoring systems are simple and they really do come naturally! I find them more intuitive than Ketsui's system, at least, even though they have some things in common.

After thinking about it some more, GJP is right, I shouldn't really call any of Futari 1.5's scoring systems an expansion of the Ketsui system. They take elements from Ketsui, Ibara Kuro, Mushi 1 and Galuda and roll them all up into a simple package that's fast-paced and easy to pick up and play, but hard to master.

Prediction: Three years from now when there's no Mushi Futari 1.5 port, and the board is selling for current Ketsui prices, people will write similar reviews about it.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:18 am

See, I don't want to read your 1.5 strategy guide until I have reviewed 1.0, the whole point being that I want to talk about 1.0 as if 1.5 didn't exist. That game was a rather huge disappointment for me, and I want this to come out in the review.

Of course, once I start playing 1.5, your strategy thread will be the first thing I read. If the game is all you are making it to be (which it probably is), then I will be sure to make appropriate comparisons to Ketsui.

And hey, you know what, why don't you go ahead and write a review of either of the Futaris, or indeed of the first Mushi, yourself?

I bet you'll do a great job. Indeed I bet there's hardly anyone here who can do a better job than you.

Do it and I'll post them on my site -- except if you prefer to send them to Malc for Shumps.com.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:26 am

I would like to do reviews of Futari 1.5 and Ibara Kuro: Black Label, been thinking about it for awhile actually. I'll see what I can do. I have to get a few articles published first (linguistics articles), but after those are done I should have some time.

I could do a review of Futari 1.0 as well, as I'm one of the few here who actually owned the game and played it non-stop for over a month. It's a good game with some glaring flaws. Far from Cave's best, but still better than pretty much any of the other shooters coming out from other companies in the past years (Milestone, Warashi, Grev, etc). But I probably won't review that one.

Futari 1.5 is such a great game, actually my all-time fave Cave shooter ever.

Play it and you will regain your confidence in Ikeda's brilliance! In the meantime, buy the superplay DVD coming out in 3 weeks and you'll start to see what I'm talking about.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:34 am

EOJ wrote:I would like to do reviews of Futari 1.5 and Ibara Kuro: Black Label, been thinking about it for awhile actually.

I could do a review of Futari 1.0 as well, as I'm one of the few here who actually owned the game and played it non-stop for over a month. It's a good game with some glaring flaws. Far from Cave's best, but still better than pretty much any of the other shooters coming out from other companies in the past years (Milestone, Warashi, Grev, etc). But I probably won't review that one.

I say do 1.0 first, then 1.5. Again, I bet you played 1.0 a lot more than I did, and god knows how long it will be before I am back in Japan and manage to track down an arcade with 1.0.

Same goes for Ibara BL. I can do a review of Ibara any time I wish, but it will be ages before I am in a position to review Black Label.

Meanwhile, there are still no reviews of these games to be found anywhere online.

edit: Do it or I'll ask Brandon Sheffield or Tim Rogers to do it! I am warning you

And then they'll become the no.1 google search results, and you'll be coming across them for the rest of your life.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:14 am

You know Ibara Kuro is a really special game. When I first bought it 6 months ago, I loved it, then a few weeks later (after getting my ass handed to me over and over), I hated it and sold it. I bought it again last month and gave it another shot. I spent a few days with it, and then suddenly the whole thing made sense and it "clicked" with me. It's absolutely a brilliant game, with a wonderfully elaborate scoring system and a great game balance. I need to give it time and play it for a few months intensively before I make a final judgement, but it has the potential to be one of my most highly ranked shooters.

I could do a Futari 1.0 review, but I'm not sure I'm so interested in that. A combined 1.0/1.5 review might be better (they'd each be scored separately within the review, of course). That's probably what I'll end up doing.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:50 am

I think I would like Ibara Red way, way better if something actually happened in the first two stages. I find them both horribly boring. Then, stage 3... it gets fun (but I die).

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:38 am

The first stage is fun in Ibara Kuro. Actually the second stage is as well. But the third stage is probably my favorite. Gotta love firing a couple Hadou guns up those trains and then weaving back and forth sucking in all the medals and items and stuff.

You have to play most of stages 4-6 at max rank and hug the bullet streams, so it's a bit more stressful in those. The stage 5 boss milking is a lot of fun though.

Kaiser · Post by **Kaiser** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:40 am

EOJ wrote:The first stage is fun in Ibara Kuro. Actually the second stage is as well. But the third stage is probably my favorite. Gotta love firing a couple Hadou guns up those trains and then weaving back and forth sucking in all the medals and items and stuff. You have to play most of stages 4-6 at max rank and hug the bullet streams, so it's a bit more stressful in those. The stage 5 boss milking is a lot of fun though.

JEsus, i loved playing stage 5 on maximum rank in ibara arrange on ps2

it was crazy but possible at the same time... however the boss's first form wasn't possible at max rank until you destroyed his lance cannons..... ibara arrange ALL is my precious gem like mushi arrange one (Ibara Arrange took me 3 months to pull off while mushihime arrange took me.... 6 MONTHS!)

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:43 am

@kaiser: it's a bit harder in Kuro as the bullet streams are faster and denser than PS2 arrange when at max rank (they're also blue and purple, instead of the pure purple you find in PS2 Arrange). But you have to do it to build up your XTC multiplier (this is not in the PS2 Arrange mode), which gives more points than the Baradise system would in these stages.

Kaiser · Post by **Kaiser** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:45 am

EOJ wrote:@kaiser: it's a bit harder in Kuro as the bullet streams are faster and denser than PS2 arrange when at max rank (they're also blue and purple, instead of the pure purple you find in PS2 Arrange). But you have to do it to build up your XTC multiplier (this is not in the PS2 Arrange mode), which gives more points than the Baradise system would in these stages.

I know, i did read kuro's ST..... however my two Cave ALLs were hard enough to pull off for me really (I did great job at ALLing mushi arrange really..... to no-miss until that bitch... it's so unusual without autofire)

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:46 am

Yeah, a 1CC in Mushi Arrange is a nice achievement. Good job!

Kaiser · Post by **Kaiser** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:49 am

EOJ wrote:Yeah, a 1CC in Mushi Arrange is a nice achievement. Good job!

However, i'm not planning any new Cave ALL any soon... espgaluda feels too hard for me at stage 4/5-1 (I suck at it) and i was thinking about taking on mushi original or maniac.... okay going to take a class cya

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:09 am

and i was thinking about taking on mushi original or maniac

I personally think this is the best way to go, and it's what I'm planning to do myself. Why start a new game when there are 3 more perfectly good ones waiting for you (and you've already memorized the enemy placement.) I refuse to quite arrange though, because my score was so pathetic (only 360 mill, no lives left.) I want at least around 500-600 million before I quit.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:08 pm

Kaiser wrote:However, i'm not planning any new Cave ALL any soon... espgaluda feels too hard for me at stage 4/5-1 (I suck at it) and i was thinking about taking on mushi original or maniac.... okay going to take a class cya

ESPgaluda is easier than Mushi Maniac ^_^ Though, Mushi Maniac isn't TOO much harder, so go with what you have more fun with. I have no experience with Mushi Original, since I really don't care for it, but I also can't comment on it either.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:18 pm

EOJ wrote:I would like to do reviews of Futari 1.5 and Ibara Kuro: Black Label, been thinking about it for awhile actually. I'll see what I can do. I have to get a few articles published first (linguistics articles), but after those are done I should have some time.

I could do a review of Futari 1.0 as well, as I'm one of the few here who actually owned the game and played it non-stop for over a month. It's a good game with some glaring flaws. Far from Cave's best, but still better than pretty much any of the other shooters coming out from other companies in the past years (Milestone, Warashi, Grev, etc). But I probably won't review that one.

Futari 1.5 is such a great game, actually my all-time fave Cave shooter ever. :D Play it and you will regain your confidence in Ikeda's brilliance! In the meantime, buy the superplay DVD coming out in 3 weeks and you'll start to see what I'm talking about.

What did they change in 1.5 that turned this not-so-great game into a masterpiece ?