Apidya vs Project X

[Shatterhand]

I was browsing the Amiga Magazine Rack ... and noticed something really amusing.

Project X and Apidya were released on the same month (I already knew that). Team 17 had hyped the game before, and they were the publishers of the month, all the media was saying they were the best thing ever. Every magazine had a preview of it, and it had a few coverdisks.

Apidya had nearly zero hyping, very few previews and appeared in a few coverdisks.

A fair amount of magazine reviewed both on the same edition. Except by Amiga Power that gave 89% to Apidya and 78% to Project-X, every other magazine rated Project X better than Apidya.

(Interestingly, Amiga Power was usually regarded as a magazine that could rate games properly, using the full-rate and rating average games with 50% instead of the common 70%. If I remember correctly, they also had a feud with Team 17 at some point)


But when both games were re-released, for some reason, Apidya got better grades overall. Still the re-release of Project X also got better grades, but the game was dubbed special edition and it was tweaked in many ways, becoming a much better game than the original


And even more curious... the company who re-released Apidya was... TEAM17! I even remember The One magazine said in the re-release review "As there was an eternal argue about what was the best shooter, Apidya or Project-X, Team 17 bought Apidya and now they own both".

Amazing how you just can't trust media for anything, even back at the "good ole days". The One rated Apidya 79% first time and 87% on the re-release.

Anyone who have played both games actually think Project X was better than Apidya ?[/url]

[Ceph]

Anyone who have played both games actually think Project X was better than Apidya ?

Do we even need to talk about it?

[neorichieb1971]

I played both, I must admit I played the origonal release of Project X more than Apidya. Apidya had that console look of the time which I must admit I didn't like then. Where as Project X had all the shiny reflective sprites and backgrounds and speech. I must admit I was a bit of graphics whore back then.

As much as I played Project X, I never did get past level 2. The lvl 2 boss in the origonal would require lots of memorizations and even though I could regulary get to the end of level 2 with one life I never was able to kill the boss with all my remaining ships.

A hacked version followed, I enabled stealth 100% of the time and completed it. It was the most ridiculous game ever after level 3. The best graphical shmups on the Amiga seemed to have this problem, blood money was another that was beautiful to look at but busted you in 2 every 2 minutes.

PX special edition was alot easier, I even got past level 2 boss on that, but only played it an hour or so knowing what was to come.

The Amiga days were awesome though. I see Commodore selling gaming PC's all over the net. I think they come with an amiga emulator, not sure though.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

I remember Amiga Format gave Apidya it's "Gold" award, I dont think Project X got that. Amiga Format being more for the Dads, a slightly more mature read than Amiga Power, The One and the others.

[Shatterhand]

I remember Amiga Format gave Apidya it's "Gold" award, I dont think Project X got that. Amiga Format being more for the Dads, a slightly more mature read than Amiga Power, The One and the others.

It's true... the difference between the ratings was even higher on Amiga Format. Apidya got a 90% and Project-X got 75% .

[Ceph]

I don't get why anyone thinks that Project X looks good. It's boring looking,
And it not having any music doesn't help.

Apidya, on the other hand, looks and sounds gorgeous.

[Keade]

They have really different gameplay and feeling...
I tend to prefer Project X, but I've to admit Api Dya has qualities Project X doesn't have. Among other things : excellent music (different music for each level) and lots of level full of life.
I think Project X is really shorter. It also has a very "cold" feeling.

Project X is easy once you know what technique to use for each sequence. Also, most weapons must be avoided at all costs because they're too weak. I strongly recommend to use Plasma. Api Dya isn't really easy either btw...

[NAVVARR]

I enjpyed project X the original - it was released at a time when the Amiga was realy starting to take off and show people what it could do.
I remember looking at the graphics and thinking -WOW

I was really difficult, but not impossible- i actually managed to complete it eventually- way back then, when i lived in a bedsit- nae kids and all the time in the world.

I also remember playing Apidya- tho it never grabbed me like Project X did. Apidya was itself a good game- but Project X is the one i still enjoy playing.

-Project X's music was fantastic -as was a lot of Team 17's music.


I also bought the PS1 X2 sequel- again, lovely to look at, but suffered the same horrendously unforgiving game play of its predesessor -try the Japanese X2 for a far better game.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Did anyone ever find Apidya's Speed of light bonus stage? (I think I ask this every time an Apidya thread pops up)

[Herr Schatten]

Did anyone ever find Apidya's Speed of light bonus stage? (I think I ask this every time an Apidya thread pops up)

Which one is that and where can it be found? The only ones I know are the sunset above the clouds, the molehill, the pike stomach and the guts of the rat cadaver

[Shatterhand]

I also bought the PS1 X2 sequel- again, lovely to look at, but suffered the same horrendously unforgiving game play of its predesessor -try the Japanese X2 for a far better game.

Not really, I finished the PAL version of it. The game is hard up until a certain point, then your ship is so ridiculously powered-up (Really, the amount of firepower puts Batsugun to shame) that nothing will give you any troubles, except maybe the last boss.

The problem with Project X is that the level-design is incredibly bland (much like X2). It's the designers just developed a bunch of different enemies, and then they send one kind of enemy at time. I don't remember you ever being attacked by more than one kind of enemy at the same time... and the way the game just has a "time" for each enemy is just stupid. The levels are designed like that - 15 seconds of a certain enemy, then 30 seconds of another enemy, then 30 more seconds of another enemy, and now a boss. It's obvious there was zero thought on the level design

http://hol.abime.net/1164/screenshot -> the graphics of Project X are REALLY amazing, X2 also looks sweet on the PS2.

Project X feels like a tech demo, it's like great coders and graphic artists (Well, Andreas Tadic and Rico Holmes actually ) just gathered and said "We could made a shoot'em up game that shows the Amiga power", but had no idea of how making a good GAME, only how to make a good PIECE OF CODE.

Apidya, in the other hand, is obviously made by people who actually knew what makes a good shoot'em up. The level design is very spot-on, and the game is full of neat ideas and great moments.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Did anyone ever find Apidya's Speed of light bonus stage? (I think I ask this every time an Apidya thread pops up)

Which one is that and where can it be found? The only ones I know are the sunset above the clouds, the molehill, the pike stomach and the guts of the rat cadaver

There's a track called "Speed of Light" in the sound test so one can assume that there's a hidden level to go with it.

[Turrican]

I guess I'll add a bit of italian lore.

Agony, Apidya and Project X were reviewed in the same issue by both the most known magazines back then. Here are the scores:

The Games Machine n° 41 (April '92)

Agony: 93%
Apidya: 92%
Project X: 95%

Despite the lower score, Tony Roberts' illustration for Agony was the cover for this issue.

K n° 39 (May 92)

Agony: 915/1000
Apidya: 880/1000
Project X: 921/1000

It's obvious that Team 17 had the best PRs back then. The Games Machine used to interview Martyn Brown every four issues or so, and later they even serialized a "developer's diary" of Alien Breed II...

However, as bad as Project X might have been, I guess I won't witness another gaming month such as that one. It's kinda like Gradius V and huh, two other excellent titles that actually don't even exist, were reviewed at the same time...

[Shatterhand]

Yeah, I was going to add in the original post but I forgot, that Agony was also released on the same month and in a few magazines reviewed at the same edition of Project-X and Apidya.

3 horizontal shmups in the same MONTH!



But rating Agony 93% is pushing it too much!. I can't believe both magazines gave Agony a higher rating than Apidya. This is complete nonsense.



The One also made a diary for the development of Alien Breed 2. They surely had their contacts

[Turrican]

The One also made a diary for the development of Alien Breed 2. They surely had their contacts

Yeah. TGM actually was the Italian version of a short-lived UK magazine. Interestingly, the magazine is still out there at the newspaper stands (issue 200 and counting). It's often remembered for the gorgeous covers. Until issue 70 or so it was an Amiga-hardcore stronghold...

K also began its life as the counterpart of the famous UK magazine Ace.

[NAVVARR]

I also bought the PS1 X2 sequel- again, lovely to look at, but suffered the same horrendously unforgiving game play of its predesessor -try the Japanese X2 for a far better game.

Not really, I finished the PAL version of it. The game is hard up until a certain point, then your ship is so ridiculously powered-up (Really, the amount of firepower puts Batsugun to shame) that nothing will give you any troubles, except maybe the last boss.

I managed to complete the Pal version of X2 as well- its far harder than the Japanese version.
I found that if you missed a power up at certain points in the PAL version then you couldn't destroy the enemies fast enough and therefore you couldn't power up any further and you soon ended your game.

The japanese version gets around this by lowering the number of hits needed to kill an enemy.

Hence, if you can beat the PAL version -you'll cakewalk the Japanese version.

[Turrican]

Sure, but the fact remains that the Japanese rev. has a better difficulty calibration. And it's certainly the one I'd recommend to anyone who'd just want to drool over the graphics (since, no matter how hard, the gameplay isn't interesting enough to draw you into the game for long).

[ST Dragon]

The problem with Project X is that the level-design is incredibly bland (much like X2). It's the designers just developed a bunch of different enemies, and then they send one kind of enemy at time. I don't remember you ever being attacked by more than one kind of enemy at the same time... and the way the game just has a "time" for each enemy is just stupid. The levels are designed like that - 15 seconds of a certain enemy, then 30 seconds of another enemy, then 30 more seconds of another enemy, and now a boss. It's obvious there was zero thought on the level design

Funny, I had the exact same thoughts back in 1992 when I 1st played PX on my A500+.
Having to shoot down the same enemy waves for over and over again, just for different wave to arrive 30 secs later, felt very repetitive and uninspired.
It was a lot worse too, since I had been playing Thunder Force III (known for its variable enemy wave attacks), for over a year before PX was released.

Interestingly in PX, there is a time when you're attacked by more than one type of enemy, but that's caused by a bug. When you die, just before the enemy wave completes its pass and then you reappear on the screen, you'll see a few remaining enemies from that wave flying away just when the next enemy wave arrives


I still liked Project X and found my self trying repetitively to pass that damn 2nd level Boss (One Mighty freckle kicking dude!) When I finally managed to beat the bastid, the 3rd disk was corrupted and would not load any further!
At least I managed to complete the Special Edition version and a trained version of the 1st edition. I still prefer the 1st edition as the levels were a lot longer and it even had a cool ending sequence animation unlike the SE.

I’ll repeat a good old quote on one of the Project X Flyers seen in various AMIGA magazines of the time:
“Project X – Best Graphics Money Can Buy!”

As for Project X2 on the PS-1, well that was one of the main reasons I bought a PS-1 in the 1st place, so that pretty much covers it!

But yeah Apidya > Project X (In every way, except for the graphics department)

[D]

I played Project X maybe once or twice, i am appaled at the ratings it got. Perhaps some good kind of scoring mechanism?
I played apidya lots and it is the shmup ever for the Amiga, not being followed by project X at all. I would say Z-Out or even Turrican II shmup stages.

[mulletgeezer]

Apidya is ok but Project X is pathetic; a typical soulless euroshooter which is bad in almost every area. I went to the Retro North meet a couple of weeks ago - it was surprisingly good for shmups, a dude bought a cab in and I got to play Rtype, Salamander and Blazing Star. Hardly anyone there was interested in these games but then someone booted up Project X on an Amiga and a big group crowded round it and everybody wanted to play. It made me sad

[Shatterhand]

Pathetic.


As far as Amiga shmups goes, IMO it goes like that

Apidya > Uridium 2 > Battle Squadron > Deluxe Galaga > Disposable Hero > R-Type 2 > Z-Out > Wings of Death > Silkworm > Datastorm > Agony > Lethal Excess > Project-X


I probably am forgetting other shmups that are better than Project-X on the system.. now we know that there are at least 12. (And I've never played Banshee, I am sure it's also better than Project-X)

Goddamn, I never noticed how many good shmups exist on the system!

[MJR]

Careful with the best of lists.. or we spiral into another x page argument thread.

Project X certainly was pathetic, and I regret that I found apidya only in last year - I have nowhere near enough patience to play even that!

But I've said enough already http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6807

[Shatterhand]

haha

The order of the games I listed isn't the most important. I believe many people will say Z-Out is better than Battle Squadron or Silkworm is better than R-Type 2, and that's ok.

But ALL of them are better than Project-X, and you can't deny it

And Apidya is the best shmup on the system. you also can't deny it



Now, a curiosity... is there anyone posting in this thread who's not european, besides me?

[ccovell]

I'll chime in for the Canadians and say I never understood the appeal of Project X. Sure, the graphics are great, and the music is fantastic, except there's none in-game, making the already dull gameplay downright sleep-inducing.

Apidya's great, very professionally done for an Amiga game, but it still suffers from many of the problems of most Euro-shmups.

(Yeah, the Genesis and Turbografx spoilt me...)

[yojo!]

Hybris.

[MJR]

Hybris!

\o/

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Menace.

[qatmix]

Another vote for Hybris, loverly game I was a massive terra cresta fan and this was a great homage to it.

[Turrican]

Menace, seconded.

[ST Dragon]

Apidya's great, very professionally done for an Amiga game, but it still suffers from many of the problems of most Euro-shmups.

(Yeah, the Genesis and Turbografx spoilt me...)

Many games are very profesionally done on the AMIGA, just as they were on the Mega Drive & PCE, but seriously not a single PCE Hu Card shooter (Possible even DUO & Mega Drive) can compare to Project X or Disposable Hero in the graphics department and Apidya did not feel at all like a typical Euro shmup, more like a Japanese shooter with enhanced R-Type elements.