Mushihimesama PS2 pre-orders confirmed! (was: Is this real?)

[sffan]

In any case, I haven't played GWG in either format, but if a port is described as merely "adequate" by someone who's a fan of the series, I'm hesitant to pay the full 60 bucks for it.

It's either 60 bucks or whatever the PCB costs ($$$).

If you want to be familiar with a great game, the PS2 port will at least let you become acquainted with the gameplay and give you a hint of what must be some really incredible graphics on the original. Of course it would have been great if it had tate & 60 fps, but this is our only way to play the game right now (affordably).

As for Mushi, it's probably already ported, right? It must take at least a couple months just to produce all the copies, packaging, etc. So what's done is done.

[BulletMagnet]

It's either 60 bucks or whatever the PCB costs ($$$).

Or waiting months or more for a used copy at a more reasonable price...heaven knows I'm patient (and cheap) enough to pursue that option.

As for Mushi, I'm still torn on whether to give Taito the benefit of the doubt on this one...

[Recap]

Actually, there is some filter or resolution change on PS2 port of XII Stag. It's not so sharp as G-Net original. I don't stress over this stuff unless it gets 'movement blurry' though, like PS2 rev Metal Slug 4 for example.

You're probably right there, since I don't own the game and I only saw it once in a crappy RGB TV. Weren't the Gunbird ports true low res in tate, btw?

[LUNardei]

Preordered!

This is the event of 2005, imho

[chtimi-CLA]

See the scanlines? That's 'cause it's true low res.

And nope. PS2 MS3 is not true low res and yep, it's filtered.

ok i think i see what you mean. i expect what a hi-res/filter does, is to somehow fill the scanlines? how is this bad? (i'm purposedly obtuse here because i would like an accurate answer ).
i plan to get MS3 on MVS sooner or later, i will definitely pay attention to it when i do.

also, about a possible ibara port, i doubt it will happen because so far only mangaish and series cave games have been ported. on the other hand garegga was so it's sort of a franchise, and maybe (but that's far-fetched) cave designed mangaish boss girls on purpose to make a port more likely.

[jiji]

ok i think i see what you mean. i expect what a hi-res/filter does, is to somehow fill the scanlines? how is this bad? (i'm purposedly obtuse here because i would like an accurate answer ).

The problem isn't necessarily that the scanlines are gone, though low-res games do often look better with scanlines. The problem is that when scaled up, these games are running at a resolution that must be interlaced for display on non-HD televisions. When you display a low-res game at twice its resolution and interlace it, you get two lines of interlace per line of resolution, giving you a shimmering mess. Plus, any display techniques that involve flickering a sprite on and off every frame (like with shadows in some games) turns those sprites into solid blocks of interlaced lines.

Another problem is that the scaling involved very often introduces some blur to the picture, making it look even worse.

[Dylan1CC]

See the scanlines? That's 'cause it's true low res.

And nope. PS2 MS3 is not true low res and yep, it's filtered.

ok i think i see what you mean. i expect what a hi-res/filter does, is to somehow fill the scanlines? how is this bad? (i'm purposedly obtuse here because i would like an accurate answer ).
i plan to get MS3 on MVS sooner or later, i will definitely pay attention to it when i do.

also, about a possible ibara port, i doubt it will happen because so far only mangaish and series cave games have been ported. on the other hand garegga was so it's sort of a franchise, and maybe (but that's far-fetched) cave designed mangaish boss girls on purpose to make a port more likely.

I don't see why Ibara is any different, both have manga'esque characters. And Mushihime definitely isn't an established series. I seriously am very surprised it's getting a port. I had resigned myself to the fact that it wouldn't after the Arika debacle not to mention how unique it is as a Cave game (visually and art style-wise anyways).

Anyways. Mushihime port. Best news of 2005. I can't wait to chill this summer fighting epic screen filling insect battles.

[Rob]

In any case, I haven't played GWG in either format, but if a port is described as merely "adequate" by someone who's a fan of the series, I'm hesitant to pay the full 60 bucks for it.

If you're not wild about the GW series or Mars Matrix, it's not going to win you over or worth full import price. It's like more of the same, remixed. Aesthetically a step down (aside from the bullet light show), soundtrack is entirely forgettable.

[Recap]

ok i think i see what you mean. i expect what a hi-res/filter does, is to somehow fill the scanlines? how is this bad?

Somehow. But keep in mind that the game was not originally designed for that resolution, so it's actually a scaled-up picture which just try to mask the pixelation with filters. It's too artificial to be "good".

[Rob]

It's too artificial to be "good".

Oh, so it's in your head.

[Recap]

The problem isn't necessarily that the scanlines are gone, though low-res games do often look better with scanlines. The problem is that when scaled up, these games are running at a resolution that must be interlaced for display on non-HD televisions. When you display a low-res game at twice its resolution and interlace it, you get two lines of interlace per line of resolution, giving you a shimmering mess. Plus, any display techniques that involve flickering a sprite on and off every frame (like with shadows in some games) turns those sprites into solid blocks of interlaced lines.

I actually do think that the problem IS that scanlines are gone. Your explanation brings to think that a fake low res game (non interlaced, if you prefer) looks OK with a HD monitor, which actually doesn't. Or didn't I understand you?

[jiji]

I actually do think that the problem IS that scanlines are gone. Your explanation brings to think that a fake low res game (non interlaced, if you prefer) looks OK with a HD monitor, which actually doesn't. Or didn't I understand you?

I'm saying that the presence of interlacing is a bigger problem for me than a lack of scanlines. I wouldn't complain nearly so much about these scaled-up ports if they were simply pixel-doubled with no interlacing, but I play my games on a 13" 1084, not an HDTV (and I've heard very bad things about how low-res games look on those).

For reference: I don't mind PC-emulated games with scaling and no scanlines, as long as the scaling is sharp and the vsync is properly synchronized.

[visuatrox]

I actually do think that the problem IS that scanlines are gone. Your explanation brings to think that a fake low res game (non interlaced, if you prefer) looks OK with a HD monitor, which actually doesn't. Or didn't I understand you?

Recap I agree with you that real scanlines do make lowres stuff look better than any software filtering does. A simple demonstration of this is just to take a low resolution video and play it up on a PC with a CRT monitor in lowest possible resolution, then play the same video with the monitors highest resolution (the software resizing and filtering makes the video look worse).

But then there is another side of things, with plasma and LCD TV's it is bye bye scanlines. On those setups it is actually often better that the games are running in "scaled/filtered" highresolution, instead of true lowresolution (because many flat tv's don't have that great scaling).

[Recap]

I'm saying that the presence of interlacing is a bigger problem for me than a lack of scanlines. I wouldn't complain nearly so much about these scaled-up ports if they were simply pixel-doubled with no interlacing, but I play my games on a 13" 1084, not an HDTV (and I've heard very bad things about how low-res games look on those).

For reference: I don't mind PC-emulated games with scaling and no scanlines, as long as the scaling is sharp and the vsync is properly synchronized.

Ah. Got it. So you like straight pixel-doubled picture. Weird. You'll be happy with a big HDTV, then. If the game/system has VGA/31 kHz compatibility, you'll have no interlace at all. Interlace is used to display a hi res picture in a low res (15 kHz) monitor. There's no other way to do that.

Another thing is the omnipresent masking filters, which are up to the devolopers' choice and will also be there with a ture 31 kHz (VGA) output.

[Recap]

But then there is another side of things, with plasma and LCD TV's it is bye bye scanlines. On those setups it is actually often better that the games are running in "scaled/filtered" highresolution, instead of true lowresolution (because many flat tv's don't have that great scaling).

Plasma/LCD TVs do always work at 31 kHz. So no "true low resolution" there. Anything "true resolution" is automatically pixel-doubled to be displayed in hi res by the TV itself. Maybe it's worse than the filters and whatnot by software, but the problem is always there: they use hi res displays for low res designs.

[TVG]

this is getting very funny.

anyway, i dont think that us average humans with average wallets can really care about this type of stuff, and just be happy if we get decent ports, hi res or not.

note that i have a big thomson scenium TV, and i just dont play 2D games on it, i cant.
i was about to vomit when i put castlevania SOTN the first time on it, and its like that for all 2d games.

fortunately i have a small sony one, and the image with rgb is just so good that it almost feels like an arcade monitor.

[Dylan1CC]

this is getting very funny.

anyway, i dont think that us average humans with average wallets can really care about this type of stuff, and just be happy if we get decent ports, hi res or not.

What this guy said.

[Neon]

I played Saturn Metal Slug on my brother's 65 inch HDTV last summer and jesus, it looks terrible. Marco actually 'warps' the scenery surrounding him. Looks teh mansechs on lowres RGB though.

I'm still going to buy Dragon Blaze, Mushi, etc. 'true low res' or no.

[Recap]

fortunately i have a small sony one, and the image with rgb is just so good that it almost feels like an arcade monitor.

It does if the game uses true low res. It doesn't if the game uses fake low res. It's this simple.

And there're many "average humans" here buying PCBs. Are you saying that this stuff is not relevant to them? It'll be one day, then.

[TVG]

the average guy doesnt buy PCB's, that is all.

there may be some dudes that saved an bought one, but those that will be like "the port sucks? lets buy the pcb" are very few.

[Recap]

the average guy doesnt buy PCB's, that is all.

there may be some dudes that saved an bought one, but those that will be like "the port sucks? lets buy the pcb" are very few.

I actually thought that the "average guy" doesn't come to these boards, to begin with.

Ignoring facts is a happy thing until somebody illuminates you, on the other hand.

[jiji]

this is getting very funny.

anyway, i dont think that us average humans with average wallets can really care about this type of stuff, and just be happy if we get decent ports, hi res or not.

My wallet is indeed very average, and I didn't pay more than $40 for my 1084 monitor. :p Resolution issues are something that affects all of us, whether or not we buy PCBs, and especially if we don't play on HDTVs. It's about developers not taking a certain step toward a more faithful port, one that they easily could have taken, and one that makes a big difference.

All of our discussion and attempts to inform others about the problem often won't do any good, though, because developers tend to take the easy way out and most people won't notice or don't understand the difference anyway.

As BenT stated on another forum, this problem is analogous to a DVD release having horrible compression artifacts or aspect ratio problems.

Edit: Also, we're not going to get anywhere with this issue by insinuating things and trading insults. This is a matter of information, not elitism.

[Recap]

All of our discussion and attempts to inform others about the problem often won't do any good, though, because developers tend to take the easy way out and most people won't notice or don't understand the difference anyway.

This sad.

[visuatrox]

Even though this board may have gathered a niche group of gamers. I think even here the average person buys console games and not PCB's. Arcade Machines and Superguns is just something that costs more money, takes too much space, or is too technical for even "hardcore" gamers to bother with (and for me personally even if I wanted to I could not find the equipment anywhere near me these parts of the world).

[Dylan1CC]

Using an adaptor Matt gave me, I once played Progear for a few hours on my RCA stereo TV (which till I get a Wega, I use for almost all my console gaming) and it wasn't that bad at all.

Funny how my PCB looks good on RGB or on composite even, but if it were on a HD/LCD/plasma it'd probably look cruddy and distorted. In fact a few months ago I asked some of the guys in the hardware forum if I should get a small LCD monitor for my rig instead of a replacement RGB (since mine is dead now) and it was a resounding "no."

Anyways, once I get a Wega I plan on trying Progear with an S-video cable.

[Kron]

this is getting very funny.

anyway, i dont think that us average humans with average wallets can really care about this type of stuff, and just be happy if we get decent ports, hi res or not.

What this guy said.

"This type of stuff" shouldn't be viewed as an extra or a bonus, The resolution of the game is normally countermount to the quality of the port and it can also dictate how the game runs and displays on certain hardware when ported.

A complacent majority rules attitude just cheats yourself out of a decent product in the end.

[Recap]

Even though this board may have gathered a niche group of gamers. I think even here the average person buys console games and not PCB's. Arcade Machines and Superguns is just something that costs more money, takes too much space, or is too technical for even "hardcore" gamers to bother with (and for me personally even if I wanted to I could not find the equipment anywhere near me these parts of the world).

I was not saying that you need to buy PCB's in order to be a "niche gamer". It was just an example to question the "averageness" of the people here.

[jiji]

Using an adaptor Matt gave me, I once played Progear for a few hours on my RCA stereo TV (which till I get a Wega, I use for almost all my console gaming) and it wasn't that bad at all. Funny how my PCB would look better on RGB or on composite even, but if it were on a HD/LCD/plasma it'd probably look cruddy and distorted. In fact a few months ago I asked some of the guys in the hardware forum if I should get a small LCD monitor for my rig instead of a replacement RGB (since mine is dead now) and it was a resounding "no."

Anyways, once I get a Wega I am really interested in using the adaptor with an S-video cable with Progear.

Yeah, all this new video technology doesn't do the kinds of games we specialize in around here a lick of good (unless you're playing DC shooters in VGA). I was buying some parts for an Duo-R RGB mod in Radio Shack once when the clerk asked me what they were for. He wondered why I was using a Commodore monitor and why I couldn't just use a new HDTV that used component video, and then said something about how we need to keep up with the times. I had to bite my tongue. :p

[Recap]

Anyways, once I get a Wega I plan on trying Progear with an S-video cable.

Get a Wega with RGB or a multisync arcade monitor. S-Video sucks and you'll realize it sooner or later.

[TVG]

i dont think its even that big of a deal, if its so bothering you that it ruins your gameplay experience, i dont know what to say.
that said, true low res are better than the opposite, but what are you gonna do if it doesnt have it? e-mail the company? laf. boycott the game? unless you can afford the pcb and everything that comes with it, you'll only be hurting yourself as far as dragon blaze is concerned, for something so minor. not only that but DB comes with extras, i know some of you might take "we dont care about extras because they arent in the arcade" route, understand a large portion of the people appreciates them.

the strikers pack is the worst example you could come up with, the "port" is absolute shit in so many ways, lack of low res is just one of the many things wrong with it.

all i know is that im playing MS3 on the xbox, and im having a great time with it, especially since the near lack of slowdown and stage select. (note that i have the pal version, not the other one that sends you at the beggining of a stage when you continue)
it looks and plays good, id be waaay too anal if the apparently high rez ruined it for me.