Just bought a Sony PGM-2950... oops?

Aleanil · Post by **Aleanil** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:06 am

So, I just bought a PGM-2950 for $160 shipped (not bad for a 29" monitor, I thought). Then I go looking for some more details on it.... An old thread here said something that has me a little (lot) worried. That states the monitor is 31khz ONLY. Is it totally incompatible with most PCBs and consoles (Saturn, SNES, PS2) that output at 15khz, or can it handle both resolutions? (i.e. did I just waste my money)?

Edit: clarified question

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:23 am

yes... I can't confirm it in person but it looks to be VGA

you could always combine it with an xrgb...

I have a PVM and it does low res fine...

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:14 am

Yeah 31khz only for that one, sorry. It would be great for DC/Naomi stuff, but no good for low res stuff.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:28 am

I had a 2950 I think, it was 15khz. Were there 2 models then?

If it has a DB25 input its 15khz.

Edit - I think I had the PVM-2950, so they are right I am wrong. Easy to make the mistake when its just one letter different

Just a word of precaution, my PVM had geometry issues and it didn't like being tated at all.. Weird considering its perfect casing for that sort of thing. Oh, and they are heavy biatches.

Aleanil · Post by **Aleanil** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:26 pm

Darn, I was afraid of it not working... I didn't read closely enough when I was looking at it. An XRGB would be a great idea, except for the price tag and the incredible rarity of them nowadays.

I was looking through some of my old hardware to see what I had around, and found a Matrox Meteor/RGB framegrabber. I'll have to check it out and see if it's good enough to capture full video in real-time and preview it on the monitor - that way I can at least have an RGB connection from the console and have the computer upscaling it. Only problem is that the Meteor/RGB came out a loooong time ago and is only supported under Windows 95/98 (or Linux/BSD, but I don't really want to go through the hassle of setting everything up in Linux). Guess it'll work well for MAME too, but I already had a nice 21" Sony Trinitron that was newer than the PGM-2950 for that. I should've learned by now that I need to read more closely before I buy stuff

cody · Post by **cody** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:57 pm

If it hasn't been shipped yet I'll buy it off ya, would look good next to the pvm-2950

Aleanil · Post by **Aleanil** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:54 pm

cody wrote:If it hasn't been shipped yet I'll buy it off ya, would look good next to the pvm-2950

It's already on the UPS truck.. I'll bet it *would* look nice next to a PVM-2950 though

Ok then, to get this working... all I really care about is
Dreamcast (already supported - VGA box)
MAME (already supported)
Saturn (15khz)
PCB (15khz)
PS2 (15khz)

I s'pose I could go with an upscan converter of some sort... does anyone have any suggestions of a good one besides the XRGB line?

Or perhaps a component->vga converter?

Or maybe a suggestion of a video capture card that'll handle component inputs?

I'd like this to be as sharp as possible, while spending (preferably) less than $100. I'd rather not screw up buying something for it again. I *know* there's a way to do this, I just don't know enough about upconverting and what the end quality will be.

Thanks for your help!

note: further googling hath revealed - PS2 outputs RGB (w/ sync on green). PGM-2950 supposedly supports sync on green (here). So I can take my PS2's component cables and directly hook them up to the monitor, R/G/B (ignoring H/V) and expect it to work?

edit: sheesh, I keep answering my own questions... the PS2 won't work unless it's outputting a progressive scan game. The monitor is 480P only. (Right?).

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:02 am

The PGM-2950 is 480p only yes. I sold mine recently, since I don't have the space anymore. I was just great for MAME playing though.

If you're connecting your PC anyway, you should try a capture card. The best RGB/YUV-enabled capture card is the PMS PDI/Sweetspot card. Pricing was around $200 a few years back, maybe you can find one cheap somewhere. Quality was quite nice and the very only thing you're missing are scanlines when using DScaler for the game's processing.

cody · Post by **cody** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:36 am

The ps2 apparently also only outputs sync on green when it's in 480p mode; the pvm 2950 takes sync on green, but wont sync a 480i ps2 rgb signal. Not too big of a deal since it takes component.

I honestly think you can get a 15khz monitor for what it's going to cost you to convert the signal well. I got my pvm locally for only 50 bucks, and I see them on ebay for well under 200 all the time, you just gotta find one nearby.

Aleanil · Post by **Aleanil** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:00 am

cody wrote:I honestly think you can get a 15khz monitor for what it's going to cost you to convert the signal well. I got my pvm locally for only 50 bucks, and I see them on ebay for well under 200 all the time, you just gotta find one nearby.

You're probably right that it'll cost me some $$$$ to get it upconverting well, way more than the $100 max I want (either a sweetspot card or an XRGB-2 is probably my best bet, and both are easily $150++). But locally... 15khz monitors simply don't exist in my area. I've had feelers out for 9 months and not a single decent hit on it; I've posted want ads on craigslist & sales there, skimmed classifieds, even made contacts at the local university and local video production firm. Rural Kansas has decent scenery, but not so decent hardware salvage

I have an Adaptec Gamebridge I got from woot a while ago that I was using on a Sony 21" trinitron monitor. Mushihimesama looked pretty decent using s-video out of my ps2, so I guess I'll use the PGM for MAME and run consoles through the gamebridge. Not as nice as a 15khz, but oh well...

Thanks for your help & comments Cody, TWE, fudoh, etc. It'll arrive next Wednesday, so I'll have to test it out and see. I can always try to save and buy an XRGB-2 or decent RGB capture card some time in the future.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:20 am

Aleanil wrote:I have an Adaptec Gamebridge I got from woot a while ago that I was using on a Sony 21" trinitron monitor. Mushihimesama looked pretty decent using s-video out of my ps2, so I guess I'll use the PGM for MAME and run consoles through the gamebridge. Not as nice as a 15khz, but oh well...

It says it can run video through a laptop. Is this true?

Aleanil · Post by **Aleanil** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:24 am

Damocles wrote: It says it can run video through a laptop. Is this true?

It is true, but you'd better have a well-powered laptop. It's all rendered in software, so it'll max out your processor. My Latitude D410 (P4-M, 1.86ghz) can't handle it; the frames lag a bit and sometimes skip. My P4 2.6ghz desktop does fine though. Having a decent video card probably helps too (Intel GMA crap on laptop, Geforce FX5200 on desktop, haven't tested elsewhere).

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:27 am

Aleanil wrote:
Damocles wrote: It says it can run video through a laptop. Is this true?
It is true, but you'd better have a well-powered laptop. It's all rendered in software, so it'll max out your processor. My Latitude D410 (P4-M, 1.86ghz) can't handle it; the frames lag a bit and sometimes skip. My P4 2.6ghz desktop does fine though.

So...even if you have a standalone monitor it does everything in software? You can't just have a monitor with no comp and still be golden? I'm looking for a way to get by without a TV since I'm moving and CRT sets are huge and I don't want to pay for an LCD.

General Martok · Post by **General Martok** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 am

Fudoh wrote: If you're connecting your PC anyway, you should try a capture card. The best RGB/YUV-enabled capture card is the PMS PDI/Sweetspot card. Pricing was around $200 a few years back, maybe you can find one cheap somewhere. Quality was quite nice and the very only thing you're missing are scanlines when using DScaler for the game's processing.

I'd love to get one of those cheap ...they never pop up on ebay and the price on the official site is still 200$+

dscaler works really nice for shmups (sharpness filter comes in handy), but you still get a delay of ~1frame , but that's alot better than most HDTVs.

Aleanil · Post by **Aleanil** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 am

Damocles wrote:
Aleanil wrote:
Damocles wrote: It says it can run video through a laptop. Is this true?
It is true, but you'd better have a well-powered laptop. It's all rendered in software, so it'll max out your processor. My Latitude D410 (P4-M, 1.86ghz) can't handle it; the frames lag a bit and sometimes skip. My P4 2.6ghz desktop does fine though.
So...even if you have a standalone monitor it does everything in software? You can't just have a monitor with no comp and still be golden?

Ah, yeah, running it to a standalone monitor won't work. It's got a s-vid/composite cable -> tiny gamebridge brick -> a USB2 connection to computer. It'd be awesome if it were a standalone unit and didn't require a computer for that price though.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:43 am

Hmm...looks like I'll need a VGA box...though video quality might be suspect...

http://www.buynshop.com/productinfo//VG-VGA-BOXB
or
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-ei- ... 0-4s4.html
or
http://www.gocybershop.ca/customer/prod ... 196&page=1

Suggestions?

Aleanil · Post by **Aleanil** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:01 am

Well, I can tell you that the vast majority of VGA boxes are junk. Unfortunately I'm unable to tell you of a way to winnow the chaff from the decent ones - if I knew, I'd get one myself. Everything I've seen has said 'get an XRGB-2, don't get those cheap $50 pieces of junk'.

I've never used one of said $50 pieces of junk but I imagine they're not so hot. IIRC, they basically just double the lines of resolution from 480i to 480p by... doubling each line of the signal! It takes good chips to be able to do that quickly (60 times a second) so oftentimes, the cheaper ones use cheaper chips that are unable to process fast enough and cause the screen to be jagged, or fuzzy, or just plain laggy. That's what I recall from reading into it earlier today at least

D · Post by D » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:38 am

As for 15Khz video monitors, they should be out there. Companies should be dumping them right about now. Try searching in specific subsections on ebay and/or other more regional marketplace sites.
Check in sections like profesional audio and video. Or search for specific common brands. Or just search for monitor on a daily basis and check everything from the previous day. This way you'll never miss an auction. But I think that for most companies it's too much of an hassle to put them on ebay and they might just post it on a simpler marketplace site if such even exists locally on your end. Good luck. I recommend 2 monitors so you'll have the best quality and less swapping headache. It just takes more room. But you then have 2 setups!

Aleanil · Post by **Aleanil** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:05 am

Received monitor today! Unfortunately, it was damaged in shipping (one of the arms is bent, and the bottom mounts for the crt seem to have snapped so the monitor is about 1/4" - 1/2" pushed in from the bezel), but the seller is filing a claim with fedex for me and will send a replacement one asap.

But I'm not sure if I want to give this one up... it is *nice* quality. I've never done any gaming on a 29" RGB monitor before and it is quite a fine thing. Of course, my camera taking skillz are sadly lacking so the pics come nowhere near doing it justice.

Gunbird on PS2: (using the xploder HDTV boot disc to give me 480p)

Mushihime-sama on PS2: (xploder boot disc)

Taking pictures one-handed and playing one-handed on mushihime-sama = fail. But I really like this monitor, I hope the replacement is of the same quality.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:12 pm

very nice! a quick question on the Xplorer HDTV boot disc. I thought the PAL version of the disc only booted PAL games and the NTSC one only US games. Which combination of PS2/Xploder/Mod?/Game did you use to boot up Mushihimesama in 480p ??

Aleanil · Post by **Aleanil** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:43 pm

Fudoh wrote:very nice! a quick question on the Xplorer HDTV boot disc. I thought the PAL version of the disc only booted PAL games and the NTSC one only US games. Which combination of PS2/Xploder/Mod?/Game did you use to boot up Mushihimesama in 480p ??

I'm not entirely sure, it just worked for me first try. Gunbird was actually a PAL version I know for sure, I had to select between 50/60hz on boot. Didn't even think about that.... the copy of Xploder was just one I picked up somewhere randomly, not even sure what region it is. I suppose it was some sort of black magic I performed inadvertently o.o

All I did was pop in the Xploder disc, pop in the mushi/gunbird disc, and boot it. Had no problems at all.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:19 pm

And you're using an unmodded US PS2 or something else ?

Aleanil · Post by **Aleanil** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:01 pm

This is on a modded US PS2 (with a modbo chip - cheap matrix knockoff. I doubt it does anything for me with converting to 489p, it just kills the region lockouts).

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:11 pm

Hmm, than it's really weird because Mushihimasama doesn't work on my setup. I have a modded Euro PS2 and tried the japanese Mushihimesama with an Xploder HD bootdisc yesterday - got no picture.

I'll try again. Thanks for the input so far.