Why is arcade technology reluctant to go LCD?

[neorichieb1971]

I can't wait for this day to happen so the native res of all games (even 2D) is 1366x768 or thereabouts.

[D]

it will then either be 1280X720 or 1920X1080 afaik.
Please let them use plasmas instead of lcds.
Why is it reluctant? Expenses... oh and ermmm, arcade gaming is considered to be dead outside of Japan.
But I too can't wait.

[neorichieb1971]

I doubt cost is an issue for the actual panel. Since I can't buy a tri-sync CRT for less than $1000 in the 25" - 28" range. (in the UK)

The cost factor would be embedded into changing the cabs that support flat panels. I noticed some dedicated cabs like HOTD4 have flat screens.

I would be very very intersted in buying a cab if it were a flat panel screen knowing Cave and others would have to support it.

[elvis]

Taito Vewlix:


16:9 720p capable LCD monitor in a Taito cab. Currently used in Raiden IV, Battle Fantasia, and the loc-tests of Sengoku Basara X (new Capcom/ArcSys fighter) amongst others.

More:
http://images.google.com/images?q=taito%20vewlix

[D]

A ugly piece of doo. The only thing I like are the sticks and buttons. I hate the shape, I hate the colors used. I hate all of the black that was used. vugly. And that's coming from someone who admires Taito and the Egretts are great!

[neorichieb1971]

Doesn't look like its TATE compatible at all.

I don't like 16:9, or the thought of playing on it for arcade games.

[elvis]

Doesn't look like its TATE compatible at all.

I don't like 16:9, or the thought of playing on it for arcade games.

It can handle tate AND 4:3. Raiden IV runs on this, in tate, and with borders on top and bottom (once in vertical orientation) to handle 3:4 ratio.

[edit]
Look at the 4 speaker holes - you'll see lines around them where you can take the LCD panel and set it vertically between the speakers, and two "bezels" (of a fashion) that fill the holes left behind.
[/edit]

Tekken 6, Virtua Fighter 5, Battle Fantasia and Sengoku Basara X are all 16:9 capable games. Whether you like it or not, this is the way the Japanese arcade market is headed.

If you ask me, 4:3 CRT rules the world forever. But progress is progress, and the world moves on without us old fuddy-duddies.

Arcades used to attract people by the bucket load because they were full of cool, expensive hardware that the average consumer couldn't afford at home. Fast forward 20 years, and every man and his dog has tech at home that's 10 times more powerful than what's in a local arcade. Arcade manufacturers have begun to realise that they need to catch up in bling/wow factor, and a part of that is upping the specs of their video outputs.

When dealing with fickle Joe Public, these are the things that must be done to attract the ever-dwindling attention spans of the modern youth.

[edit2]
The white strip along the top of the control panel lights up (fluro light in the CP itself). You can see it in action in any of the Sengoku Basara X loc-test videos on YouTube at the moment. I'm assuming the character move-lists are inserted over this so that it acts like a "backlight" of sorts, allowing you to see the move lists even in dimly lit arcades.

If you ask me, it's not all bad. There's some clever design ideas thrown in there. Plus it's an extremely compact unit. LCD technology does mean bigger screens for less cabinet depth. That makes for less wasted floor space when setting up head-to-head versus cabs.

[Ganelon]

Sounds awful that they're sacrificing color and resolution compatibility for less weight and a pointless shift in aspect ratio. But I guess there's too much demand nowadays for higher res 3D.

[elvis]

Sounds awful that they're sacrificing color and resolution compatibility for less weight and a pointless shift in aspect ratio. But I guess there's too much demand nowadays for higher res 3D.

You make it sound as if every cab coming out is LCD. They're not. So far there's about 3 generic units on the market (dedicated cabs are a different story), compared to the hundreds of candy cabs out there that are still 4:3 CRT.

Games are heading more and more to 3D, including shmups. Changing aspect ratios to 16:9 (or indeed offering dual-mode 16:9 and 4:3 via a dispwitch setting or game option) is not difficult in the land of 3D.

There is a demand for high resolution cabinets that support 16:9. If there wasn't, these cabinets wouldn't exist. 4:3 CRT isn't going to die off tomorrow. Your post sounds quite doomsday. Japanese game centers are still majority CRT, and packed to the brim with retro titles. That's not going to change any time soon, either.

You all need to chill out a little, methinks.

[elvis]

VewLix at HAY:



Thanks to richy13 at KC:
http://www.killercabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9261

[Dave_K.]

Its a shame Taito didn't keep with the cool design of the concept model VewLix, as shown here with sweet lightup panel and funky neon colors.

[elvis]

Its a shame Taito didn't keep with the cool design of the concept model VewLix, as shown here with sweet lightup panel and funky neon colors.

Those differences look largely cosmetic. I'm sure you could get close to that with a marquee swap and some new sticks and buttons. General shape and design is pretty consistent.

[neorichieb1971]

Cost of one of these?

[Strider77]

A ugly piece of doo. The only thing I like are the sticks and buttons. I hate the shape, I hate the colors used. I hate all of the black that was used. vugly. And that's coming from someone who admires Taito and the Egretts are great!

I like the look.... pretty slick and conserved.

I have no issues with 16x9 when the game is designed for it. 16x9 in tate sounds like a fun idea... more room to see means for bullets.

[D]

16x9 in tate sounds like a fun idea... more room to see means for bullets.

EXACTLY!
It means the bullets can go faster, resulting in a more manic experience, but the game will not be harder because the bullets travel longer and thus you have about the same chances. A little more room for developers to create new creative patterns. Is that new parodius papolupius or whatever it is called the first 16:9 shooter? Or is it 4:3? Just checked and it seems to be 4:3. What a bunch of idiots @ Konami

[sven666]

i for one cant wait untill we get 16:9 tated highres shmups

[elvis]

Cost of one of these?

Absolutely no idea. I haven't seen on on offer to anyone in the west yet. If anyone here knows a Japanese arcade operator well, they might be able to find out.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Cost of one of these?

Absolutely no idea. I haven't seen on on offer to anyone in the west yet. If anyone here knows a Japanese arcade operator well, they might be able to find out.

I'm sure Matsu could get price quotes if anyone here in the USA is interested in purchasing such a cool Taito Vewlix cabinet -- it would look mighty fine at home in any prestigious American arcade hangout... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[sven666]

Cost of one of these?

Absolutely no idea. I haven't seen on on offer to anyone in the west yet. If anyone here knows a Japanese arcade operator well, they might be able to find out.

2 viewlix and a tekken 6 setup will run you a smooooooth $36000...

im guessing the cabs alone would retail at around $10 grand ?

[stuntman]

If that cab is standard width, it looks like if the 16:9 screen was tated it wouldn't actually be taller than a regular monitor, just narrower. Reduced side-to-side movement in a shooter wouldn't be my idea of fun.

[D]

If that cab is standard width, it looks like if the 16:9 screen was tated it wouldn't actually be taller than a regular monitor, just narrower. Reduced side-to-side movement in a shooter wouldn't be my idea of fun.

Hey man it's not the size that matters. It's just a matter of how you look at it. It's like saying you don't prefer tate over yoko because in tate you have less room to move as opposed to yoko where the screen is very wide. Vewlix has a 32" monitor right?
So I think it will be taller as opposed to narrower than a more conventional 4:3 monitor, say Naomi 29".
OK that's it. No more Vewlix for you!
No more vewlix for me as well, because I would rather cram a 32" lcd in any other cab I could lay my hands on.

[neorichieb1971]

If they cost $10k thats a bit out of my price range. Its a silly amount of money for a cab imo.

[elvis]

2 viewlix and a tekken 6 setup will run you a smooooooth $36000...

im guessing the cabs alone would retail at around $10 grand ?

Yeah, Tekken 6 retails for around 6-8K, so that would be my guestimate too.

Still, it sounds a touch expensive for what's inside. Although truth be told I've never bought a Candy brand new, so I wouldn't know what others retail for. I've only ever bought second hand, and that's a totally different market.

It makes me wonder what sort of money these game centres must pull.

Assuming you wanted to break even in 12 months:

$36,000 / 365 days per year = ~$99 per day. Assuming you're open 24 hours a day, you'd want at least 4 plays per hour, all day every day for 12 months PER MACHINE.

I guess that's feasible in Japan. I know here in Australia most arcades sit empty for the majority of the day, and are only open 8-10 hours a day anyway. No wonder we just don't get new games here.

[neorichieb1971]

Egret 3 is about $3500 from the factory I believe.

I would think at the very most I'd pay $5k for an LCD unit.

[tada]

2 viewlix and a tekken 6 setup will run you a smooooooth $36000...

im guessing the cabs alone would retail at around $10 grand ?

Yeah, Tekken 6 retails for around 6-8K, so that would be my guestimate too.

Still, it sounds a touch expensive for what's inside. Although truth be told I've never bought a Candy brand new, so I wouldn't know what others retail for. I've only ever bought second hand, and that's a totally different market.

It makes me wonder what sort of money these game centres must pull.

Assuming you wanted to break even in 12 months:

$36,000 / 365 days per year = ~$99 per day. Assuming you're open 24 hours a day, you'd want at least 4 plays per hour, all day every day for 12 months PER MACHINE.

I guess that's feasible in Japan. I know here in Australia most arcades sit empty for the majority of the day, and are only open 8-10 hours a day anyway. No wonder we just don't get new games here.

I was in Tokyo last month, so hear me out...

The majority of the cabs in the arcades I went to were much cheaper models. After a quick Google search, the Egret II is only ~$1,200. After shipping and PCBs, probably only around $3,000. Yet they still charge 100 yen for most games, and a lot of people are willing to pay that much. Which means at the same rates, you'd break even within about a month. Being open 12 hours a day, you'd break even in about two months with some leeway on the 4 plays/hour rate.

It's not all completely brand-new games. Sure, they'll have a cabinet, or two, or 12 of the newest traditional arcade game, but the whole place isn't chock full of them.

There's plenty of other ways that game centers make money. A lot of places have medal games, pachinko, and crane games which will eat up money like nothing else. It pains me to think of how much money I have plunked into Fortune Orb.

Plus, arcades in Japan get much more traffic than arcades in the US. Population density, and the fact that there's just so much more variety in the games are probably factors. In the US, arcades completely lack variety (Pretty much any game there is either a lightgun game or a racing game). Not to mention, at any given time, half the games are broken. In most US arcades, there are maybe a couple games there that I'll play, but at Japan game centers, there are dozens of games that I'll play, and they're places that I could spend all day in...

I really hope I can move there, because I think I'll suffocate to death as a gamer if I continue to live here...

[D]

In the US, arcades completely lack variety (Pretty much any game there is either a lightgun game or a racing game). Not to mention, at any given time, half the games are broken. In most US arcades, there are maybe a couple games there that I'll play, but at Japan game centers, there are dozens of games that I'll play, and they're places that I could spend all day in...

Same in the Netherlands. It's probably the arcade owners themselves who let the industry die outside of japan. They don't care one bit about games, have no respect for them, do not care what the customer wants. And have no clue how to make a profit. They indeed buy only those big bulky exclusive machines. And too little normal joystick games, half of them are broken. Some probably just have a loose wire somewhere or can be fixed relativly easy. Those idiots!
I for one think that arcades could still lead a very healty life outside of Japan

[neorichieb1971]

Arcades died in my town about 1993-1995.

We had tons of normal joystick games. After that it was the snooker/pool halls, bowling alleys and Cinema's that took the baton. Again, something went pear shaped. Now the internet is crippling everything.

The fact remains that in the West, people don't want the mingling society, they want the "stay at home" society. If Daytona was released today it would cost almost £2 a go ($4).

Is it worth it?

What we see of Japan is mostly Tokyo in the electronics district, is it like that in suburbian areas? I doubt it. If you put a massive arcade in the heart of Birmingham, had top quality games from 1980-2007 you would have a good turn out if it was well advertised. Just nobody is doing it.

[Dave_K.]

I really hope I can move there, because I think I'll suffocate to death as a gamer if I continue to live here...

But you'll die from 2nd hand smoke inhalation much sooner if you live your life in Japanese arcades!

[tada]

What we see of Japan is mostly Tokyo in the electronics district, is it like that in suburbian areas? I doubt it. If you put a massive arcade in the heart of Birmingham, had top quality games from 1980-2007 you would have a good turn out if it was well advertised. Just nobody is doing it.

I went to several districts of Tokyo. Shinjuku, Shibuya, Ginza, all had arcades in them. They weren't there as densely as in Akihabara, but still plenty to go around and all still dominated any arcade in the Seattle area where I live. Even some of the lesser-known districts (anyone here heard of Akasaka? Because I sure hadn't) had gamecenters just randomly on the street.

I really hope I can move there, because I think I'll suffocate to death as a gamer if I continue to live here...

But you'll die from 2nd hand smoke inhalation much sooner if you live your life in Japanese arcades!

The secondhand smoke is a little annoying, but you get used to it fairly quickly. Not nearly as annoying as the broken games, loud infants, and loud other demographics that dominate American arcades though.

Japan has the highest life expectancy of any country in the world. I don't see how I'd die sooner. The fact I'd most likely have a better diet too would probably balance things out, or even more than make up for it.

[Dave_K.]

Twas just a joke tada. I'll be in Tacoma for 1 day this weekend, any arcades you can recommend there?