Ketsui PCB reissue petition

cyrille2paris · Post by **cyrille2paris** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:45 am

With increasing price and no conversion scheduled: i open this topic...

stanski · Post by **stanski** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:00 am

/me donates $5 to mame dev's...

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:29 am

No can do. Arika/Cave told mamedev not to emulate it and other Cave PGM games.

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:38 am

It was DOJ specifically.

There could have been two (and a half) reasons:
1) they were still selling DOJ ports (and galuda, which wouldn't have been
far behind in emulation) and didn't want mame to cut into that revenue

2) DOJ had online score submission stuff and mame would have compromised that

2.5) they were already thinking of porting Ketsui and didn't want that to
end up in mame before it was done.

I think at this point all the realistic 'hurting someone's profit' reasons for not emulating Cave PGM games are probably a non-issue.

However. A petition to get Cave/AMI to reissue a PCB from years ago? lolololol.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:07 pm

A reissue won't happen. All new electronics have to be ROHS compliant.

I don't think they will create a new batch of ASIC's to adhere to ROHS.

Emulation is your only bet, but it's not even dumped.

If someone has a Ketsui to spare I know who can dump it

rtw

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:11 pm

man it'd be nice to see ketsui emulated - considering cave seem have firstly shut out the west, secondly normal humans that can't afford PCB's.

kemical · Post by **kemical** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:23 pm

ah its funny, I remember a couple (Few?) years ago when Ketsui was relatively inexpensive.. compared to now.

Post by **nZero** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:40 pm

RoHS applies to Japan? I thought the guidelines were still voluntary there.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:44 pm

nZero wrote:RoHS applies to Japan? I thought the guidelines were still voluntary there.

You are correct in that they are voluntary, but they still have some
kind of rules. Here is some stuff I lifted from Wikipedia:

--
Japan does not have any direct legislation dealing with the RoHS substances, but its recycling laws have spurred Japanese manufacturers to move to a lead-free process. Officially starting from July 1, 2006, Japanese manufacturers have begun phasing out lead and other harmful materials in accordance with RoHS guidelines. Japan does have a marking requirement called J-MOSS, effective July 1, 2006, on some electronic products.
--

rtw

stanski · Post by **stanski** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:35 pm

/me revokes his $5 donation to mamedev and puts out his offer for $5 to anyone willing to make an emulator for new cave games.

kthx.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:37 pm

I do see Play-Asia still selling both DOJ and ESPGaluda new though, so I bet Arika may be thinking of the retailers who still offer copies of these PS2 ports- even if these two games may be out of print at this time.

Since the Ketsui port has been tanked (Damn that PS2 RAM limitation), I don't think Ketsui would be as much of an issue to Arika.

http://wig.cave.co.jp/ranking/default.php Cave's PS2 DDP-DOJ internet ranking page is still up. IIRC you need a Japanese mobile phone to get on there though. Is there an IR for the arcade as well?

Fighting Layer is in MAME now, and that was a game Arika had gotten the MAME team to pull previously.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:46 pm

stanski wrote:/me revokes his $5 donation to mamedev and puts out his offer for $5 to anyone willing to make an emulator for new cave games.

kthx.

If you want Ketsui emulated it will have to be dumped first, there is
only one guy who can do that... Guru. So collect 800-900USD buy
the PCB and send it to him.

rtw

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:00 pm

considering cave seem have firstly shut out the west,

Don't you mean 'the west shut out Cave'?

I do see Play-Asia still selling both DOJ and ESPGaluda new though

Pretty sure a second batch of each were printed, sold off at the Cave Matsuri, and the rest sold to Play Asia where they are selling them for a hefty profit. DOJ & Galuda retailed for 5000 and 6000 yen respectively.

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:14 am

Twiddle wrote:No can do. Arika/Cave told mamedev not to emulate it and other Cave PGM games.

But that was back when a Ketsui port was in forseeable future. Therefore, they need to stop acting like bitches and either put that shit on XBLA/Wii/PSN/DC or put them boards back out. Damn, these motherfuckers must be scared of money or something.

Well, at least we have the DS port to look forward to

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:17 am

rtw wrote:
If someone has a Ketsui to spare I know who can dump it

rtw

The real question is, will he send it back. I know I wouldn't.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:51 am

Never_Scurred wrote:
rtw wrote:
If someone has a Ketsui to spare I know who can dump it

rtw
The real question is, will he send it back. I know I wouldn't.

Well the question is would it even work after getting dumped. He has to take off all the surface mount roms. I'm sure he has the right SM tools to do it, but who knows if he's any good at putting them back on.

Anyway, isn't DDP-BL in more need of a dump and emulation than Ketsui? Lets get our priorities straight!

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:56 am

You guys talk about Cave boards like they are from outer space and as rare as rocking horse shit.

If Ketsui PCB's went into manufacture they would cost $2000 new just like they did way back when. Well for a while anyway.

It makes me wonder how many people would want to play this game if it was ported, or re-issued, or bum fucked? I can just see you getting worked up at the bar over a bottle of beer and shouting out "I wish I could play Ketsui damn it".

Post by **Dave_K.** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:11 am

neorichieb1971 wrote: It makes me wonder how many people would want to play this game if it was ported

Outside of our tiny community, zero.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:23 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
I do see Play-Asia still selling both DOJ and ESPGaluda new though
Pretty sure a second batch of each were printed, sold off at the Cave Matsuri, and the rest sold to Play Asia where they are selling them for a hefty profit. DOJ & Galuda retailed for 5000 and 6000 yen respectively.

The second printing was done long before the Cave festival. It's on the Arika webpage, they basically keep printing copies of both as long as there is interest. If the stores are ever sold out, you can always go to their site and order direct.

I think that's fantastic, as it keeps the price in check and allows those who want a brand new one to buy one easily, even years later.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:51 am

The second printing was done long before the Cave festival. It's on the Arika webpage, they basically keep printing copies of both as long as there is interest. If the stores are ever sold out, you can always go to their site and order direct.

I think that's fantastic, as it keeps the price in check and allows those who want a brand new one to buy one easily, even years later.

If all that is true, that is one of the coolest things i have ever seen a game company do....

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:56 am

It absolutely is true, see Arika's shop page for the lowdown:

http://www.arika.co.jp/shop/shop.html

They sell DDP:DOJ for 5200yen, and Espgaluda for 6200yen.

stanski · Post by **stanski** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:07 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:You guys talk about Cave boards like they are from outer space and as rare as rocking horse shit.

If Ketsui PCB's went into manufacture they would cost $2000 new just like they did way back when. Well for a while anyway.

It makes me wonder how many people would want to play this game if it was ported, or re-issued, or bum fucked? I can just see you getting worked up at the bar over a bottle of beer and shouting out "I wish I could play Ketsui damn it".

If you ever see someone in the bar, stooped over and crying, mumbling about "ketsui, oh how I want to play you," you'll then realize how much CAVE has ruined my life.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:45 am

Damn, these motherfuckers must be scared of money or something.

No, they seem to be afraid of losing it on pipe dream projects. They are the only company to thrive off of this genre at the present. I think they know what they're doing.

RotateMe · Post by **RotateMe** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:26 am

rtw wrote:
stanski wrote:/me revokes his $5 donation to mamedev and puts out his offer for $5 to anyone willing to make an emulator for new cave games.

kthx.
If you want Ketsui emulated it will have to be dumped first, there is
only one guy who can do that... Guru. So collect 800-900USD buy
the PCB and send it to him.

rtw

And even then... wasn't there someone who proved in a similar discussion that PCs won't be capable of running newer cave games for at least ten years or something?

Rather donate five dollars to some Cave employe and make him send you the sources, graphics and stuff.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:34 am

Twiddle wrote:No can do. Arika/Cave told mamedev not to emulate it and other Cave PGM games.

Cave "told them so"?

Since when have MAMEDev listened to any arcade manufacturer?

RotateMe wrote:And even then... wasn't there someone who proved in a similar discussion that PCs won't be capable of running newer cave games for at least ten years or something?

What the hell?

http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=809

20MHz Motorola 68K chip. (To put it in perspective, CPS2 is 16MHz M68K).

Is this thread full of people smoking drugs?

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:04 am

elvis wrote:
Twiddle wrote:No can do. Arika/Cave told mamedev not to emulate it and other Cave PGM games.
Cave "told them so"?

Since when have MAMEDev listened to any arcade manufacturer?

OH I dunno. Why don't you ask about where TGM2/TGM2+ are?

Or how about this:

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sh ... art=1&vc=1

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:05 am

It's just wishful thinking that such a simple petition will convince Cave to do another batch of Ketsui PCBs...the entire shmups community already knows that this ain't gonna happen -- and if those who want a such a Ketsui PCB, be prepared to pay at today's current asking prices..... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

stanski · Post by **stanski** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:20 am

The only reason current gen computers couldn't handle cave games is due to the fact that mame is not very good at playing games optimally, its good at having a lot of compatibility. We should be able to play 10 year old games in mame (i'm looking at you, RS) without any graphical issues, but we can't because mame can't handle 3d polygons AT ALL.

General Martok · Post by **General Martok** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:28 am

I'd rather make a petition for more ports than for reprints of PCBs. Look at where you are...cave has gotten you so far that you are asking for expensive pcbs instead of home ports

But If it's me I'd also settle for that "near-perfect" ketsui port

Concerning the hardware issue with emulation - even the current SH3 boards should be no problem by todays standards , looking at the hitachi SH3 which was introduced in 1998

I have no idea about the rest of the hardware though , but I'd guess it's not much more powerful than a modern japanese cellphone . And the PGM hardware is already emulated , just not the cave games running on it. So i guess the real reason why they didn't do it was the rquest.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:37 am

zakk wrote:OH I dunno. Why don't you ask about where TGM2/TGM2+ are?

Or how about this:

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sh ... art=1&vc=1

That link indicates that the request was made due to the fact that a "TGM collection" home version was planned for sale.

As we all know, the home version Ketsui is dead and buried.

Once again I ask: how do you "steal" a game that isn't available for sale? You can't take profits away if profits aren't being made.

I'd love for Cave to prove me wrong, and release a "Cave collection" on home console. But again, it's pretty obvious they don't give a rat's arse about home users (proven by their last financial report, which says quite specifically that home ports are no longer being done).

[edit] And for the record, I am a fan of Cave games, and own legitimate copies of all the Cave home ports available for PSX and PS2. I would gladly PAY MONEY for a home version of Ketsui (I would go as far as to buy whatever console it appeared on, as well, if I didn't already own it).