Projectiles: Directed or Undirected?

[MathU]

Do you prefer your bullets directed at you or shot in no particular direction? Basically--though not necessarily--mazes of myriad undirected bullets or "twitch gameplay"?

I'm note asking which games you prefer, however. Nearly all games have a combination of the two.

[themachinist]

I prefer bullets that don't hit me.

I voted directed though.

[Rob]

Fixed or aimed patterns + aimed shots. Random, no.

[MathU]

That's a good point. I'm not sure I've ever played a shooter with random bullets. Can you name one?

Perhaps "dumbfire" was the wrong choice of word.

[Andi]

Back when I first started posting here (years and years ago) someone said, in a thread similar to this in reference to the 19XX series (I think), something like: "A few carefully aimed bullets are much more dangerous than whole screen full of a blind fire."

I had never really though about it before he'd said anything about it, but he was totally right and that's mostly why I prefer older shooters (Sky Shark is an excellent example of dangerous aimed bullets) to newer ones. What's even worse than random fire are completely static bullet patterns that are the exact same every time they are fired - this seems to be the trend now, as far as I can tell.

[CMoon]

Yeah, I think you need at least another category.

Sure there's them aimed bullets, then there's bullet curtains/mazes/spam, then there's a whole different category of drifting bullets like in the first half of Giga Wing 2. None of these are really random. Is there a 4th category?

I like the shooters that incorporate more than one type of bullet (and most do.)

[bsidwell]

I prefer unaimed fire. I'm also bad at games. It's possible these facts are related.

[shoe-sama]

As long as there isn't random homing bs anywhere, I'm fine.

[-Bridget-]

A well balanced combination of both seems best to me.


Sometimes both at once. DoDonPachi likes to do that to DRIVE ME UP THE WALL.

[stanski]

A well balanced combination of both seems best to me.


Sometimes both at once. DoDonPachi likes to do that to DRIVE ME UP THE WALL.

95% of bullets in that game are aimed. Level 3 and a few boss attacks are like the only random spots they aren't.

[worstplayer]

both.

[MathU]

The poll is simply between which bullets you prefer, namely aimed or unaimed. Most games (nearly all) have a combination of the two, so I'm not asking that.

[-Bridget-]

A well balanced combination of both seems best to me.


Sometimes both at once. DoDonPachi likes to do that to DRIVE ME UP THE WALL.

95% of bullets in that game are aimed. Level 3 and a few boss attacks are like the only random spots they aren't.

And level 3 is exactly WHEN that game drives me up the wall


Not just that one, either, but DOJ as well, level 3, if Im gonna really screw up, it's ALWAYS in 3.


3 doesnt like me very much.

But at least it's interesting.

[worstplayer]

The poll is simply between which bullets you prefer, namely aimed or unaimed. Most games (nearly all) have a combination of the two, so I'm not asking that.

I like when both appear at the same time ie. spam + aimed streams from sides. Crazy dodging guaranteed.

But if i have to choose one...well, look at my avatar

[D]

Are there any games that fire at where you are going?
That would be awesome.
Let's say you're at the bottom right side of the screen and you start moving left. All fire will miss you.
How about if some certain enemies (not all) could fire ahead of where you are going. So in that case you would have to move right again to avoid the impact of that bullet.
Perhaps this is too hard to explain for some to understand, but I'm sure some can follow.

[Turrican]

Are there any games that fire at where you are going?
That would be awesome.

According to this, there is at least one.

[Frederik]

Aimed fire, with occasional fixed patterns. I love Raizing games for that. It feels good to fly close to bosses and controlling their shots via bullet hoarding. I find TouHou-styled bullet mazes beautiful, but not exciting enough. Well programmed barrages of aimed shots feel much more threatening.

EDIT: Also, shmups with many aimed shots in them feel much more like I am actually interacting with the game, not just running through it like a rat through a maze. I am not saying that there are games that use fixed patterns exclusively, but the whole bullet hoarding means that not only I can dodge bullets, but I can play around with them, tricking huge chunks of fire in safe directions. (The Sky stage in Bakraid is an excellent example of how fun this tactic can be.)

[Andi]

Are there any games that fire at where you are going?
That would be awesome.

According to this, there is at least one.

Yeah, enemies in Tiger-Heli seem lead you pretty well. It's great. Playing it is unlike playing a regular shooter for that reason. Even with just 2 or 3 bullets on screen, it becomes extremely hard to dodge.

Also because your helicopter is slow, but still...

[D]

I had tried this game before, and it was hard. Now I found new respect for this title.
Thanks for the tip Turrican! It indeed appears like it does some clever AI. But not that super clever. I think that bullets are just shot like 10 pixel left and right of where you currently are. Perhaps with these enemies, you just have to freeze. I would love to get a full analysis of which enemies do this. Who can look inot the code or interview one of the Treco guys
The attract mode also has some impressive demoplaying.

[Twiddle]

Enemies shoot in a limited amount of directions in Tiger Heli.

[BrianC]

Are there any games that fire at where you are going?
That would be awesome.

According to this, there is at least one.

Yeah, enemies in Tiger-Heli seem lead you pretty well. It's great. Playing it is unlike playing a regular shooter for that reason. Even with just 2 or 3 bullets on screen, it becomes extremely hard to dodge.

Also because your helicopter is slow, but still...

That review incorrectly refers to the MD Twin Cobra/Kyokyou Tiger as Tiger Heli, though. That version of Twin Cobra sure has some mean AI.

[Andi]

According to this, there is at least one.

Yeah, enemies in Tiger-Heli seem lead you pretty well. It's great. Playing it is unlike playing a regular shooter for that reason. Even with just 2 or 3 bullets on screen, it becomes extremely hard to dodge.

Also because your helicopter is slow, but still...

That review incorrectly refers to the MD Twin Cobra/Kyokyou Tiger as Tiger Heli, though. That version of Twin Cobra sure has some mean AI.

NES Tiger Heli, NES Twin Cobra, and Genesis Twin Cobra (which is a basically a different game from the NES one) all give me the sensation of being lead (I don't know anything about the original arcade versions). Although, you're right, Genesis Twin Cobra is the most insane of the bunch. Does anyone have any experience with other ports of these games?

[j^aws]

Are there any games that fire at where you are going?
That would be awesome.
Let's say you're at the bottom right side of the screen and you start moving left. All fire will miss you.
How about if some certain enemies (not all) could fire ahead of where you are going. So in that case you would have to move right again to avoid the impact of that bullet.
Perhaps this is too hard to explain for some to understand, but I'm sure some can follow.

Stargate (aka Defender 2) does this. The enemies fire intelligently. Use of manual, variable thrust and reverse are needed to dodge fast/ slow bullets... or use of Invisio...

[-Bridget-]

Are there any games that fire at where you are going?
That would be awesome.
Let's say you're at the bottom right side of the screen and you start moving left. All fire will miss you.
How about if some certain enemies (not all) could fire ahead of where you are going. So in that case you would have to move right again to avoid the impact of that bullet.
Perhaps this is too hard to explain for some to understand, but I'm sure some can follow.

Stargate (aka Defender 2) does this. The enemies fire intelligently. Use of manual, variable thrust and reverse are needed to dodge fast/ slow bullets... or use of Invisio...

Aye, that game just LOVES to do that.

Always those blasted mutants.....

And of course, when all the little guys in the area go down, then you get a stage that's nothing BUT mutants..... blargh.


And the controls on the arcade unit dont make it any easier, lol.

Cant just have a stick to control direction and a fire button, noooooo, you get an up/down stick, reverse button, thrust, smart bomb, hyperspace, and I think Inviso is one too.


Of course, considering who designed that game, the craziness isnt any surprise.....

[j^aws]

Are there any games that fire at where you are going?
That would be awesome.
Let's say you're at the bottom right side of the screen and you start moving left. All fire will miss you.
How about if some certain enemies (not all) could fire ahead of where you are going. So in that case you would have to move right again to avoid the impact of that bullet.
Perhaps this is too hard to explain for some to understand, but I'm sure some can follow.

Stargate (aka Defender 2) does this. The enemies fire intelligently. Use of manual, variable thrust and reverse are needed to dodge fast/ slow bullets... or use of Invisio...

Aye, that game just LOVES to do that.

Always those blasted mutants.....

Looks at my pre-mutant avatar!

And of course, when all the little guys in the area go down, then you get a stage that's nothing BUT mutants..... blargh.

The trick is not to get them killed!... Though I do take pleasure in killing them myself sometimes... Of course, after every stage 5 (1st special stage) and stage 10 (2nd special stage), those Mutant stages will fortunately reset back to the planet...

And the controls on the arcade unit dont make it any easier, lol.

Cant just have a stick to control direction and a fire button, noooooo, you get an up/down stick, reverse button, thrust, smart bomb, hyperspace, and I think Inviso is one too.

I personally found the arcade controls instinctive after the learning curve and very satisfying... and going back to an 8-way + fire button setup, felt 'dumbed down'...

The best analogy I can think of is learning to drive in a 'manual' car and then driving an 'automatic' car: You lose a sense of 'control' and ultimately it's less satisfying...

The 'sense' of dodging bullets and enemies 'feels' more satisfying; and taking down enemies (which have extremely small hitboxes), in a 'sniper' like fashion, even more so...

Of course, considering who designed that game, the craziness isnt any surprise.....

Yeah, I know what you mean... but there's a fine line between 'crazy' and 'genius' and in 1981: It was a masterpiece and still is today...

[sfried]

I don't know how to put this, but I like projectiles that seem to start random at first, but end up spreading out like a pattern. Most mid-80's/early 90's display this trait.