Playing for survival VS. Playing for score- Question!

[EOJ]

I only play games for score (from the moment I start a game). If I'm not playing for score, or I don't care for the scoring system, I get ridiculously disinterested in as fast as 30 seconds. I need a deep scoring system too, or at least one with a "high risk, high reward" component. The only reason I play shmups and buy expensive Cave PCBs is for the thrill of blasting into a new higher score. The 1CC is thrilling and satisfying for me as well, but only when combined with high level scoring.

[Ayanami]

I jump into a game playing for score. Don't even try for the 1cc first. The score system does not have to be complex, in fact I am fine with games where all you have to do is blow shit up. (I will just make it a quest to kill every last thing on the screen.) But if there is a score system to be had, then I don't really feel like I am playing the game if I am not partaking in it. I am no pro, I never aim for 1st loop clears or All clears, I just try to get a pretty damn good score. I like a shooter with a good learning curve and flexibility with the scoring system. (i.e. - Something that you can half ass score in, get good results untill you find more difficult but rewarding methods.) This is one of the reasons why I am not too fond of Cave games. Kind of all or nothing as opposed to other games.

[Arvandor]

Which is part of the wide-spread appeal of ESPgaluda. Not only is it CAVE's easiest shooter by a fair margin, but the scoring system is pretty open and free. The different possibilities are pretty numerous, and I've seen fairly diverse scoring methods that yield the same results score-wise. In other words, it's not even half as strict as the DDP games or Mushi or whatnot. Not as much risk involved as I would like, but that's a very VERY minor complaint in an otherwise AMAZING game.

The combination of moderate difficulty, plus freedom in the scoring system, makes ESPgaluda CAVE's most accessable game by a long shot. Good stuff =D The slow mode and uber shield lazer (bomb) also makes it fairly easy to survive, and a hell of a lot of fun to play. I'd really have to say ESPgaluda is my favorite shooter, bar none.

/rant

What were we talking about? Oh yes... score versus survival. I still think it's important to balance the two. If you dive right into the deep scoring, you're handicaping your progress from the start. You have to survive until you feel more comfortable with the first few stages, then work your way into the scoring system. This is the quickest path to getting decent scores, clearing the game, and still having a lot of fun without it being unpaid work.

My two drunken cents.

[RotateMe]

I was getting very frustrated with Ibara Arrange mode. I played for score. I could score more than 20 million in stage 1. 9 out of 10 times I dropped my chain or died too often which made me restart it. 19 out of 20 times the same thing happens for stage 2. So I decided to focus more on survival and only go for score (in this game it means only bomb and collect meddals) when I have no other choice (when rank gets to high). I still get a few extents and I hardly ever die before stage 5. Ibara is Raizing too so I think it's already been covered but still...

[Dave_K.]

I need a deep scoring system too, or at least one with a "high risk, high reward" component.

So why did you sell Ketsui then? Its all about more risk more reward - chip scoring system.

[Shatterhand]

No. You actually it's not good enough to get a good score to have extra lives to throw away to get an even better score.

At first I also thought suicide tactics were stupid. Up until I actually understood them. People saying this is "counter-intuitive" probably don't understand how it works.

And I know, because I've once said this was "counter-intuitive", up until last year's STGT and we played Batrider on Advance. My score still sucked, but suiciding didn't seem so counter-intuitive anymore.

It's minimal in Batrider though and you have to be careful not to toss away certain characters so as not to ruin your chances of triggering a boss. Of course, you can suicide to avoid triggering bosses... that works too. The Raizing suicide issue seems to come up most in Garegga and Ibara. I haven't put much time in Garegga, and I've never played Ibara, but judging from replays it looks like it works much in the same way in both games.

Bakraid is just a strange game because suiciding is an active part of the chaining system as opposed to just rank control and bomb replenishment. You can't chain a whole level, or even a boss, without suiciding.

Very fair, I have experience only with Batrider. But as Batrider converted me, I am pretty sure it's completely logical in both Garegga and Ibara

[sfried]

I tend to succeed at getting alot further by playing for survival than playing for score. That said, that doesn't mean I am a master at 1cc'ing every shmup game I come across (Ikaruga, for example).

I like it when a shmup lets you learn at your own pace, which is why I value infinite continues. That said, that doesn't mean I don't appriciate scoring. But simply completing the game is an entirely different matter. There are different incentives and different motivations for reaching the end than just getting to tack a high score. In a way, it's sort of like telling your brain to stop acting defensively reactive and start being proactively mastering.

The reason I tend to have an aversion with certain games such as Touhou is because of how often they seem to mix up the two elements without having satisfying results. I really wish ZUN didn't make it that survival would be heavily dependant of "forced buzzing." In the end, you either get a "You're too stupid to play shmups! Fuck off!" or a "You're still not good enough" kneejerk sort of reaction. In the end, it doesnt give you a whole lot of incentive for finishing the game, much less playing it.

In other words, playing for survival should never be as hard as playing for score. Enforcing the scoring system too strictly on players not only limits the playing style, but also just plain pisses on their path to playing the game again if they lose.