DDP3 Black Label... Clarification

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:51 pm

Which kind of battery is on the Ketsui board? It looks like some 70 mAh NiMH type one.

I was sure Eight One had said the Ketsui battery is not a suicide one before I had bought the board from him.

LARGE KRO · Post by **LARGE KRO** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:02 am

LARGE KRO it would be interesting to try a normal Dai-Ou-Jou EPROM
in your defect BL PCB.

Sure, so we could see if regular version is encrypted too... Unfortunately I don't have any DDP DOJ board arround me actually.

Besides I did not opened my regular DOJ so I was thinking it has only one rom, so yes the trace might be the same.

Also I should have my board flying back to Japan to see if any repair is possible, I hope it will

I'll keep you informed on the problem when I will know a little more.

Dreadzone · Post by **Dreadzone** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:53 am

I own a regular DDP DOJ and it is still working great without the battery.

LARGE KRO : I can dump the 2 eproms and burn a set if you want to try with your dead BL.

DZ

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:04 pm

Dreadzone wrote:I own a regular DDP DOJ and it is still working great without the battery.

LARGE KRO : I can dump the 2 eproms and burn a set if you want to try with your dead BL.

DZ

Very interesting news, could you please tell me what is written on the chip on your PCB?

Is it 0014 or 0015 ?

rtw

LARGE KRO · Post by **LARGE KRO** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:59 pm

I can dump the 2 eproms and burn a set if you want to try with your dead BL

Hi DZ,
What you say about your non battery DOJ still working worry me a little about mine.
I just got the board on its way back to Japan this afternoon. It will be inspected or perhaps resent to Cave if they would accept to take a look at the problem but if nothing is possible with them I would gladly try your DOJ set. For now I just hope my board only has a rom problem

Merci beaucoup du coup de main ça fait plaisir

Dreadzone · Post by **Dreadzone** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:22 pm

rtw : If it can help, here are some pics of my regular DDP DOJ

DZ

bay · Post by **bay** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:35 am

Dreadzone wrote:rtw : If it can help, here are some pics of my regular DDP DOJ

an IGS sticker on a DOJ board?

Post by **Dave_K.** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:52 am

bay wrote: an IGS sticker on a DOJ board?

Yes ESPGaluda, DDP DOJ, and Ketsui are all special IGS chipsets.

bay · Post by **bay** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:41 am

Dave_K. wrote:
bay wrote: an IGS sticker on a DOJ board?
Yes ESPGaluda, DDP DOJ, and Ketsui are all special IGS chipsets.

well i know it's PGM hardware on a single board, just haven't seen one IGS sticker anywhere before.. guess it makes sense..

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:28 am

Thank you for the images Dreadzone

The device with the 0014 & 0015 seems to be randomly distributed between
normal Dai-Ou-Jou's and Black Labels. Therefore I believe this chip is not
related to the protecton.

I have not yet had the opportunity to determine where the traces go
but I suspect it's powering one of the IGS ASIC's.

The only way they could avoid a multitude of bootlegs would be to
look for a pattern in battery backed RAM or store a key there.

So this is what I believe (needs verification)
. Normal Dai-Ou-Jou, Ketsui & Espgaluda are not protected.
. Dai-Ou-Jou BL is protected and needs a helper battery when changing it.

It would be very nice if some friends of AMI or Cave could ask them
if the BL is protected by a suicide battery.

Comments, ideas, thoughts welcome

rtw

LARGE KRO · Post by **LARGE KRO** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:31 pm

. Normal Dai-Ou-Jou, Ketsui & Espgaluda are not protected.
. Dai-Ou-Jou BL is protected and needs a helper battery when changing it

That's what I think too, so it should have an encryption code and it should be the reason why your DOJ BL rom did not worked on your regular DOJ board.
So maybe some of the chips, even if they are the same, are not used the same way on each other game version ?

It would be very nice if some friends of AMI or Cave could ask them
if the BL is protected by a suicide battery

I asked for it and maybe will be able to get the confirmation when I I will have my board inspected (still in transit to Japan for the moment...).

All the infos we got with your roms swapping experience and mine make me think this way too.[/url]

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:52 am

I tried a Ketsui EPROM in an Espgaluda PCB last night. Lot's of raster images, nothing worked. When I plugged in the Espgaluda EPROM again everything was OK.

rtw

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:39 am

rtw wrote:I tried a Ketsui EPROM in an Espgaluda PCB last night. Lot's of raster images, nothing worked. When I plugged in the Espgaluda EPROM again everything was OK.

rtw

Just the main EPROM? There's a few other socketed chips on the boards right? What happens if you swap those also?

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:52 am

zakk wrote:
rtw wrote:I tried a Ketsui EPROM in an Espgaluda PCB last night. Lot's of raster images, nothing worked. When I plugged in the Espgaluda EPROM again everything was OK.

rtw
Just the main EPROM? There's a few other socketed chips on the boards right? What happens if you swap those also?

Those other chips look like addressing logic i.e. GAL's or PAL's. I was just wanting to determine if an Espgaluda would survive a visit from a Ketsui.

rtw

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:42 am

rtw wrote:
zakk wrote:
rtw wrote:I tried a Ketsui EPROM in an Espgaluda PCB last night. Lot's of raster images, nothing worked. When I plugged in the Espgaluda EPROM again everything was OK.

rtw
Just the main EPROM? There's a few other socketed chips on the boards right? What happens if you swap those also?
Those other chips look like addressing logic i.e. GAL's or PAL's. I was just wanting to determine if an Espgaluda would survive a visit from a Ketsui.

rtw

lol.. secretly i tried this yesterday also with my busted galuda PCB (since i have 2 ketsui eeproms), sadly didnt work

what a discovery that would have been!!

LARGE KRO · Post by **LARGE KRO** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:32 pm

I was just wanting to determine if an Espgaluda would survive a visit from a Ketsui

The idea was cool especialy when you think how a Ketsui is tough to find nowadays and the incredible prices boards sell. Great new for the original stuff owners, such a pitty for my case

Besides I am now also asking about IBARA KURO, I know it's a different hardware but would the battery also keep an encryption code on this too ?

Post by **Dave_K.** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:59 pm

zakk wrote: Just the main EPROM? There's a few other socketed chips on the boards right? What happens if you swap those also?

There are unsocketed surface mount roms you'd have to swap as well.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:12 pm

LARGE KRO wrote:Besides I am now also asking about IBARA KURO, I know it's a different hardware but would the battery also keep an encryption code on this too ?

The battery is only for the real time clock, all game setup data is inside a serial EEPROM.

rtw

LARGE KRO · Post by **LARGE KRO** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:38 am

The battery is only for the real time clock, all game setup data is inside a serial EEPROM

Thanks, here's a good new

LARGE KRO · Post by **LARGE KRO** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:52 pm

Just to update with a bad bad new for me,
getting a DOJ BL back to life by Cave, what means only getting the encryption code reprogrammed, costs the same price you would pay to get a DOJ BL pcb on the second hand market

To conclude I won't probably never repair it at all. Even if the game is great I can't consider getting abused by sendind such a high amount of money to this guys

Also Dreadzone if there is any posssibility to convert it in a regular DOJ edition, if you are still down for burning an eprom set I would gladly be going on for it.

zak · Post by **zak** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:35 pm

Any chance of a battery holder for these boards (like the cps2 ones)?

Post by **Dave_K.** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:56 pm

Sorry LARGE RKO that really sucks.

I agree and don't see how DDPDOJ BL is worth it if we have now confirmed it can suicide. White label is still awesome, and the mostly widely played game anyway (and is actually harder).

LARGE KRO · Post by **LARGE KRO** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:57 pm

I don't think since actually there was such a low quantity of PCBs produced to have someone testing it on a working board and taking risk to loose it like I did

Besides I still think the board can be kept alive for years like CPS3 cartidges but we need to know where a second battery needs to be soldered during the replacement.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:44 pm

LARGE KRO wrote:Just to update with a bad bad new for me,
getting a DOJ BL back to life by Cave, what means only getting the encryption code reprogrammed, costs the same price you would pay to get a DOJ BL pcb on the second hand market
To conclude I won't probably never repair it at all. Even if the game is great I can't consider getting abused by sendind such a high amount of money to this guys

Also Dreadzone if there is any posssibility to convert it in a regular DOJ edition, if you are still down for burning an eprom set I would gladly be going on for it.

how much was it exactly?

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:13 pm

LARGE KRO wrote:Just to update with a bad bad new for me

Been on vacation, just saw the sad news

. How much did Cave say
it was going to cost exactly ?

Another member here has also lost a BL, this might indicate that
the batteries are approaching end of life. I have just ordered batteries
so I can upgrade my own BL.

http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/dyndok.pl?l ... _69_323_39

I am going to do the upgrade with a helper battery there are
lot's of places to solder the wires for the helper battery.

If there exists such a thing as a bootleg Dai-Ou-Jou Black Label
now would be a good time to get it dumped.

rtw

LARGE KRO · Post by **LARGE KRO** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:24 pm

Hi,

Got a new work and less time but I have just checked a few things.
I have asked for more details about the repairs and it seems I did not understand well and stressed myself for nothing

To update clearly the price for the repair by Cave is a little bit more than the price of a REGULAR DDP Dai Ou Jou board on the second hand market and not the black label one, between 30000 and 40000 Yens depending of what must be done or replaced on the board.

Sorry for the intox guys, it is not cheap but I'm glad that I will finally got it repaired as it is just a little bit more that what I expected

I am going to do the upgrade with a helper battery there are
lot's of places to solder the wires for the helper battery.

Hi rtw.

That's really fine man, don't hesitate to show us where the solder points are located when you got time.
Thanks for the replacement batteries link too

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:48 pm

While trying to define proper solder points I started
measuring the voltage on my Espgaluda's battery. To my surprise
it was 0.96V. So I fired up the PCB and measured again,
this time it was 3.8V. When I measured the voltage after
I disconnected the PCB it was around 3.4V.

I did the same test on my Ketsui and got the same behaviour.

This indicates the battery is rechargable! So by powering your
PCB you will charge the battery and thus prolong the life
of your BL

LARGE KRO, did your contact in Japan confirm that it was
the battery which needed to be replaced ?

rtw

LARGE KRO · Post by **LARGE KRO** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:07 pm

No, still not at the time because the board has been sent to Cave by an arcade reseller and has still not come back from them but I asked him for it and also for a new battery. I hope they will tell him or include a note or something...
Plus we are in July so he told me the repair could take to a month ...

For the battery yes it is rechargeable like on the PGM motherboard, but does it mean that even if it is new the game is in a critical situation if you don't play it regulary ? Or do the batteries loose faster their charge due to their advanced age ? In the worst case maybe a non-rechargeable 3.6 V Lithium battery, same as on CPS2 boards? should be working, no ?

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:03 am

original battery data sheet : life expectancy 3 to 6 years, 1000 cycles
http://www.varta-microbattery.com/en/mb ... S55608.PDF

original pgm Varta battery pack $5.66@mouser
http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.asp ... 5608303012

LARGE KRO wrote:30000 and 40000 Yens depending of what must be done or replaced on the board.

the board has been sent to Cave by an arcade reseller

Sounds a little higher than normal. The starting rate is 21000y for any Cave service work, which would cover things like memory flashing for the Ketsui-Mushi-etc bug fixes. Perhaps this shop has tacked on a fee for sending it on your behalf (not unreasonable, just pointing out).

LARGE KRO · Post by **LARGE KRO** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:11 am

Sounds a little higher than normal. The starting rate is 21000y for any Cave service work, which would cover things like memory flashing for the Ketsui-Mushi-etc bug fixes. Perhaps this shop has tacked on a fee for sending it on your behalf (not unreasonable, just pointing out).

Sure it might be that, and they know arcade collectors spend sometimes crazy amounts to do their thing so I suppose they get on it.
Such a pitty I don't speak japanese and could not contact Cave directly.

Thanks for link on the Varta battery, I have been searching this one in France for my PGM mobo but without any result