I thought I was getting decent at shooters, and then...

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:55 am

I started putting more time into Dodonpachi. Holy crap this game rips me a new asshole. After not too much time in Mushihime-sama maniac mode, I can make it to the Stage 5 midboss at least fairly consistantly. I've got a handful 1cc's under my belt, and only Triggerheart was really easy. But in Dodonpachi I have a hard time making it to Stage 4 consistantly, let alone beyond that. Plus I get bad cases of restartitis with DDP. There's one part in Stage 3 where I almost always have to bomb or die, Stage 4 isn't so bad until the boss, who kicks my ass in new and interesting ways. I've never made it more than halfway through Stage 5 (and I've only even been there about 4 times in a lot of hours).

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:58 am

BOMBS

use them

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:00 am

Set us up the bomb and you fire.

mirkvid · Post by **mirkvid** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:12 am

try playing some mars matrix or DOJ, then go back. should be a breath of fresh air for ya!

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:15 am

That's how I usually make it to Stage 5... By bombing once in Stage 3, maybe once in Stage 4, then a bunch on the Stage 4 boss. I don't like relying on bombs for trouble spots though. Feels like a crutch, and is almost a bigger blow to my shooter's ego than just taking the bullets like a man and dying.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:15 am

mirkvid wrote:DOJ

death label... no bombs or hypers

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:20 am

mirkvid wrote:try playing some mars matrix or DOJ, then go back. should be a breath of fresh air for ya!

I've single credit cleared Mars Matrix ^_^

DOJ kicks me in the groin too... Haven't even seen the third boss without using continues, but I also haven't put much time into it. It's the fact that I've been putting a lot of time into DDP, and still have problems at the same spots. It feels like I'm improving more slowly in DDP than I ever have in another shooter.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:54 am

Arvandor wrote:It feels like I'm improving more slowly in DDP than I ever have in another shooter.

You just have to get used to it, the Pachis play very different from other shmups. DDP isn't too hard in the first loop if you just play for survival. DDP:DOJ is another story entirely.

And did someone actually say Mars Matrix is in the same league as DDP: DOJ in terms of difficulty?

LMAO

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:57 am

My advice is to pick games you enjoy learning. I never really enjoyed learning how to play DDP "properly" even though it's one of the games that got me really interested in the manic subgenre.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:59 am

Twiddle wrote:My advice is to pick games you enjoy learning.

Sagacious!

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:02 am

TWE wrote:Sagacious!

excellent post, good job

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:04 am

Thank you.

themachinist · Post by **themachinist** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:05 am

Arvandor wrote:Feels like a crutch, and is almost a bigger blow to my shooter's ego than just taking the bullets like a man and dying.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:14 am

TWE wrote: And did someone actually say Mars Matrix is in the same league as DDP: DOJ in terms of difficulty? LMAO

I bet I could clear the first round of DOJ more consistently than I could Mars Matrix and I barely play Cave games. The difficulty in DOJ is so overstated. The game is so slow when not cranking out hypers, there are a few more extra lives and more effective bombs.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:35 am

If I can 1cc Mars Matrix, it can't be too terribly difficult -_^ I haven't spent much time on DOJ at all (less than 10 hours for certain), so if I were to try and comment on it it'd all be hearsay.

As for games that I enjoy learning. I'm definitely enjoying Dodonpachi, I find it to be tons of fun. It's just that I suck at it more than I do other shooters =/

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:35 am

Rob wrote: I bet I could clear the first round of DOJ more consistently than I could Mars Matrix and I barely play Cave games.

I'd take that bet. And by the way you have to clear both loops in DOJ to really clear the game. Good luck at that.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:42 am

Yeah, comparing a one round game to the loop of another game is not at all retarded. Continuing the speculation though, I know for a fact that I could all clear DOJ before Gunbird 2 or Dragon Blaze.

A fact.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:43 am

Wow... if anyone needs a shooter to cut their teeth on for a 1cc, go for Perfect Cherry Blossom. I just cleared it, and it took me even less time than it did to clear Triggerheart Exelica o_O Which is to say, about a week of off and on play (with other shooters thrown inbetween, which doesn't help).

I need to get a bigger flash drive, then get MAME up and running and get a ROM of Dodonpachi so I can take it to work and play it here. >=D

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:54 am

Rob wrote:Yeah, comparing a one round game to the loop of another game is not at all retarded.

No, it isn't. We're talking about a game's difficulty, any two games are comparable regardless of number of loops. A game with 2 loops will in many, but not all, cases be harder than one with without a loop. For example, 1CCing Mushi Futari's Ultra mode is much harder than clearing any Psikyo game's second loop.

I know for a fact that I could all clear DOJ before Gunbird 2 or Dragon Blaze.

A fact.

Well if it's a fact, prove it. Shouldn't be too hard, eh?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:59 am

TWE wrote:1CCing Mushi Futari's Ultra mode is much harder than clearing any Psikyo game's second loop.

lol

-Bridget- · Post by **-Bridget-** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:08 am

I dont have TOO much trouble with DOP.

I can get through to the stage 5 boss ATM...... probably I could clear that first loop (it loops, right?) if I were actually practicing at that particular game (currently playing Strikers and Progear).

I'll agree, though, that stage 3 is a giant pain in the ass.

That section with those green ships that teleport in and then cover the whole screen with that red spam..... very dang annoying.

I've found that the best way to clear that is to only try to kill the ships on HALF of the screen..... that way that half isnt as spammy and you get through there easily. Just take it slow, it's not as bad as it looks. But do bomb if you're about to go down....

Anyway, DOJ is another story; That game doesnt like me very much.

I dont have NEARLY as much trouble with Mushihime, unless Im playing on Ultra, where the bosses will cause me some grief (specifically the 2nd and 3rd.... personally I think the 5th isnt nearly as bad as those two nightmares).

Im pretty convinced that DOJ hates all life in existence. And decides to take it out on whoever is playing it.

Tackling stage 3 right now in DOJ myself..... oh, the BOSS is easy.... but the 2nd half of the level is ARGH.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:09 am

Rob wrote: lol

Says the man who's never played Mushi Futari's Ultra mode.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:17 am

-Bridget- wrote:That section with those green ships that teleport in and then cover the whole screen with that red spam..... very dang annoying.

That's not even the trouble spot for me. I've found a pretty good path through that part. It's the very beginning of the giant red ship where all the popcorn enemies come in. A couple of those popcorn enemies (especially the ones with the spread shots) will usually corner me and I have to bomb or die. I think I need to remember where they come in and kill them faster really. At least... I'm HOPING that'll solve my problems with that part ^_^

Then the stage 3 boss always gives me some trouble. I'm still trying to find the best order to take out parts in, but I always end up getting killed by a destructable turret once the main part starts the circular waves of large blue bullets. There always seems to be a pink turret bullet where I need to go through the blue ones. Unless you can squeeze through the blue bullets where they look like they're connecting Mushihime style. Perhaps I'll have to try that =D It's so difficult to make those kinds of dodges with the A-type ship though (which I actually prefer for its speed... figures eh?)

I do pretty good on Stage 4 itself, but the boss just rapes me. I have a pretty hard time with all of his patterns (especially since I rarely get there to practice them... Perhaps I should increase my self imposed credit limit to one or two instead of zero just for practice on those later parts -_^)

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:21 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nscP9QpXoFM

I know, watching videos. But again you've got patterns after patterns that barely require the player to move. Really slow and steady stuff. Not remotely intimidated by this vid. Was expecting to eat my words since I skimmed past "Futari." People getting off on how many thousands of bullets they don't have to dodge.

I'm not at all saying Psikyo's loops are a great thing. I hate them for the most part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-JLyxifS4E

edit: here's one the wasn't massacred by screen stretching

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:35 am

Rob wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nscP9QpXoFM

I know, watching videos. But again you've got patterns after patterns that barely require the player to move. Really slow and steady stuff. Not remotely intimidated by this vid. Was expecting to eat my words since I skimmed past "Futari." People getting off on how many thousands of bullets they don't have to dodge.

That video you linked to only shows the first last boss. There are 3 of them in a row, the second form is harder (but the third is easier than the first).

Have you seen some stage vids? Anyway, the game is much harder than it even looks. I too watched the vids before I played it on my board, and I thought, eh. "It's doable". Then I found out how hard it is to consistently even get past the second stage. You of course have to memorize the bullet patterns, but you also need killer dodging skills to stand a chance.
The bullets in Ultra are very fast (perhaps not Psikyo loop 2 fast, but fast), and in an even greater multitude than any other shooter out there.
Stage 1 will slam you back over and over like no other game out there.

You know, I'm tempted to let you borrow my Futari board sometime because I think you're one of the few people here who could do something with Ultra mode. You might like it as there's no chaining, just gem collection used as a growing multiplier (it carries over each stage).

AFAIK only a couple players in Japan have 1CCed Ultra on defaults (SWY, Dame K.K., and I think one other) after 7+ months since it was released. Most people in Japan don't even play with default extends anymore, they just gave up due to the absurdity of it all.

EDIT: yeah in the second vid you link to, the guy has extends set at every 80mil (with a max of 7 lives at any time). The default extends are at 250 and 650mil, and that's all you get. 5 lives for the whole game.

KNTain · Post by **KNTain** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:39 am

edit: here's one the wasn't massacred by screen stretching

For any ratio-stretched videos, just use the button to the right of the volume.

themachinist · Post by **themachinist** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:44 am

Gradius should be infinitely harder

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:46 am

Didn't Treasure program 256 loops into Gradius V? Yes, I think that would be fairly difficult (and also take you about a month from start to finish).

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:48 am

TWE wrote: You know, I'm tempted to let you borrow my Futari board sometime

That's a really cool thought, but I wouldn't dare. I don't even have a supergun.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:49 am

Is it limited to 256? -_^ I'm pretty sure the difficulty stops ramping after loop 10, so if you can consitantly beat loop 10, then you should theoretically be able to go on forever (or until you lose your mind, which most assuredly will come first). Though, this is of course in theory. I can handle Tetris on it's highest speed (level 16 was it?), but one mistake will usually finish me =D