Why Arcades have failed

[popawell]

(I know the title to this topic sucks, open for suggestions here)
Just checked out prices for arcade machines, some of the prices boggled my mind.

I mean $6,500 dollars for a DDR machine? Most places it costs two quarters to play this. That means this particular game would need to be played 13000 times before it pays for its self. And thats not including the cost of maintaining the machine (broken pads, coin slots, electric bill, mechanic/employee wages etc.)

Most decent size arcades carry an entire room full of machines that probably cost around that much if not more. Unless the arcade gets an incredible amount of people every day I can't imagine one staying in business very long. (or how some of you forum members can afford to buy the machines for private use)

[Fighter17]

(I know the title to this topic sucks, open for suggestions here)
Just checked out prices for arcade machines, some of the prices boggled my mind.

I mean $6,500 dollars for a DDR machine? Most places it costs two quarters to play this. That means this particular game would need to be played 13000 times before it pays for its self. And thats not including the cost of maintaining the machine (broken pads, coin slots, electric bill, mechanic/employee wages etc.)

Most decent size arcades carry an entire room full of machines that probably cost around that much if not more. Unless the arcade gets an incredible amount of people every day I can't imagine one staying in business very long. (or how some of you forum members can afford to buy the machines for private use)

I herd that new Tekken 6 cab will cost $30,000.

[captain ahar]

something to note, at least from my experience is that arcades that i've been to don't actually own the games. they use a regional distributer that way they can keep their games rotating and not have to absorb the increasing cost on arcade cabinets. also good for the distributer because they are able to cover more ground with a single machine and it seems this would be good for sales as well.

it seems that this would more apply to the smaller american arcades.

[popawell]

I herd that new Tekken 6 cab will cost $30,000.

WOW

[Fighter17]

http://kotaku.com/gaming/kick-punch-blo ... 270026.php

[DEL]

popawell wrote;

I mean $6,500 dollars for a DDR machine? Most places it costs two quarters to play this. That means this particular game would need to be played 13000 times before it pays for its self. And thats not including the cost of maintaining the machine (broken pads, coin slots, electric bill, mechanic/employee wages etc.)

For Arcades it depends whether you're talking about the thrill ride driving and FPS dedicated cabinets or simply keeping your costs low by swapping Jamma PCBs in and out of generic cabs.

I'd guess that over 90% of remaining Western arcades follow the 1st option. ie. Thrill ride cabinets for the family with a Virtua Striker/Tennis and a Dance Dance .
This is formulaic and expensive. I can only figure that the operators think that these are the only games that the public will play in arcades nowadays.
However......the operators haven't even tried the far more economical Jamma PCB/Naomi etc option for the last 14 years. After all, the public will only play what they are exposed to.
So, if its not tried, no-one can truly know. Although I do have a fair inkling that nothing will really work for arcades these days (at least not in terms of video games). Reason:- The move towards home consoles & PCs has created an 'at home' culture. Kids would rather play online FPSs in internet cafes than go and play an arcade game. For example and arcade opened in Southampton (UK) not long ago, with Radiant Silvergun and other PCB titles. The story is that the local kids bypassed the arcade and spent their time and money in the internet cafe upstairs, playing online FPSs. The arcade soon closed down.

Popawell's point about the large number of credits that have to be played to pay for each game is of course true. So in this day and age, its wise for arcade operators to buy as cheaply as possible.
Tekken 6 will indeed require a ridiculous amount of competitive play to pay for itself .

Personally, I go stir-crazy at home. I've gotta get out. But I'm lucky with my local arcade. it still has a lot of 2D games and a community of players (mostly Fighter players, but HEY....nobody's perfect ).

[Ed Oscuro]

http://kotaku.com/gaming/kick-punch-blo ... 270026.php

Maybe operators will start asking to for loans...

[Specineff]

I'd guess that over 90% of remaining Western arcades follow the 1st option. ie. Thrill ride cabinets for the family with a Virtua Striker/Tennis and a Dance Dance .
This is formulaic and expensive. I can only figure that the operators think that these are the only games that the public will play in arcades nowadays.
However......the operators haven't even tried the far more economical Jamma PCB/Naomi etc option for the last 14 years. After all, the public will only play what they are exposed to.

Agreed.

Proof:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... ht=bowling

[GaijinPunch]

Title should say, "Why arcades have failed". There is no present tense about it.

[gameoverDude]

I don't think we'll be seeing THIS version of Tekken 6 in the USA, especially if it's $36,000- that makes a DX Time Crisis 4 look cheap (probably less than $20,000). More likely, we'll get a standard 2P cab version. I see this one going for 200 yen a play in Japan.

Operators need to start having a few JAMMA type cabinet games. Even if they may not be as popular as other fare, surely they'd have to get played- especially on a busy Friday or Saturday night.

Tekken 5 can suck up credits damn fast even in the Time Attack mode- where you can beat the game in as little as 2 minutes. Some world record holders don't even take one minute.

[popawell]

Title should say, "Why arcades have failed". There is no present tense about it.

Agreed. Very few true arcades survive in America today. Do they still thrive in UK? Or is the arcade doomed to be a Japanese exclusive in a few years?

[D]

Indeed. Arcade operators are idiots. They probably rely on some magazine or an impression they got at some fair as to how much profit a certain game/machine makes. They should have an expert advisor to help them decide, but they are probably to narrow minded to consider this. In alot of countries an arcade owner has to pay the same taxes for an arcade machine as for a gambling machine. A gambling machine makes way more profit, they sell arcade machines to get more gambling machines. Thank you government for ruining the arcade scene and stimulating youth to go down the path of crime (a bit dramatic, I know )
A while ago Greece had a ban on all gambling machines AND all arcade cabs. All arcade cabs were outlawed.
I think this was already said, but arcade machines get bought and traded in for other newer machines. Here in the netherlands they do think that people only want to play big exclusive arcade machines. But it ruins the atmosphere. You will walk around an arcade either in Scheveningen or Almere (Dutch cities) and all you see is dedicated hardware. I want some fighters, platformers, shmups, puzzle games, etc.

[JoshF]

Indeed. Arcade operators are idiots. They probably rely on some magazine or an impression they got at some fair as to how much profit a certain game/machine makes.

Ever compare a Japanese arcade flyer to an American one? The American ones usually have a stupid catchphrase with the word "profits" (e.g. Soar Into Profits with Afterburner Climax!) and not much else.

[P_HAT]

Personally, I go stir-crazy at home. I've gotta get out. But I'm lucky with my local arcade. it still has a lot of 2D games and a community of players (mostly Fighter players, but HEY....nobody's perfect ).

no love for fighters?

[DEL]

P_HAT wrote;

no love for fighters?

Scrolling fighters yes.
VS fighters no, not me.

-----------------
Specineff wrote;

Agreed.

Proof:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... ht=bowling

Ah yes, I see.

-----------------

GaijinPunch wrote;

Title should say, "Why arcades have failed". There is no present tense about it.

Or

"Why Arcade Operators have failed arcades".

------------------

popawell wrote;

Agreed. Very few true arcades survive in America today. Do they still thrive in UK? Or is the arcade doomed to be a Japanese exclusive in a few years?

Japan/Eastern exclusive.

They don't thrive in the UK either. My local arcade in Central London is a one-off. It has a large number of 2D games due to The Owners' links to Taito and Capcom, being the test arcade for Electrocoin.
Plus the lucky fact that the Owner tells me that "The old games were better". - So that helps .

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The local arcades around here in the Modesto, CA area are either serviced and maintained by Patton Vending Co. or another local arcade vending company. They make their local rounds of emptying out the arcade/pinball machines and restocking the money changer/token machines. Profits are split 50/50 between the said arcade operator/street location route and the arcade distributor. So if said local arcade has the newest arcade machine, he or she will only see 50% of profits (unless he or she owns the said arcade machine -- then will he or she claim 100% of the profits).

Once, I called up Patton Vending Co. to inquire about buying an arcade Jamma PCB from them and the reply back was: Sir, we only sell the full-sized arcade cabinet with the said arcade PCB in it. (So it isn't possible to buy just a lone PCB from them which sucks big time but that's the way they do business). I told the secretary that I really didn't have the room or space for such an arcade cabinet but just wanted the PCB but she wouldn't sell it as a "barebones" PCB. And I asked how much for the said arcade cab with said PCB inside it -- $400.00 USD was the selling price. I politely declined the offer... ^_~

Plus the fact that I've noticed that all the arcade and pinball machines are funneled through C.A. Robinson & Co. (based in Southern CA) before being distributed throughout the Western part of the USA (CA, OR and WA areas).

And are there still USA arcade trade shows like the AMOA and what not these days? (I do recall that they were strictly trade shows for those who work in the American arcade industry & the general public wasn't invited anyways...)

The small independent local arcades (at least in the Modesto, CA area) have vanished -- the last one closed it's doors back in March of 1998 due to losing it's rental lease. Gives you an idea of how long that type of business has been gone...and yet the youth complain that there's nothing to do around here.

I'd rather risk some $$$ to open up an state-of-art local independent arcade joint and see what happens...it's been said if your small business can survive the first five years in business, then you have nothing to worry about. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Erinu]

People prefer entertainment from the comfort of their own home. If they can avoid making a trip somewhere to enjoy themselves, they will.

Society is becoming lazy.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

People prefer entertainment from the comfort of their own home. If they can avoid making a trip somewhere to enjoy themselves, they will.

Society is becoming lazy.

Words that perfectly sum up what the American society is heads towards in the horizon...what a sad day for the American arcades -- it's being said that back in 1982, there were 22,000 arcades across the USA and nowdays, less than 2,000 remain to this very day. What must be done to revive it?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[DEL]

I'd rather risk some $$$ to open up an state-of-art local independent arcade joint and see what happens...it's been said if your small business can survive the first five years in business, then you have nothing to worry about

Two things arise from that:-

1. Risking some $$$ to open one up would simply be a magnanimous gesture with you being the Benefactor, unless you combined the business/arcade with slot machines or some other revenue gaining service to bolster up the lack of revenue coming from the vids.

2. Yes its true that a small business that survives the first 5 years has a better chance. But the World changes F-A-S-T. Many small businesses have to re-invent themselves every 5 years or die.
Globalisation is a real killer...and its gaining pace every day. The large corporations are pushing small businesses out (but that's another story ).


Like I mentioned before, video games in arcades are pretty much a thing of the past. Kids aren't growing up with arcades any more. There's no arcade culture left in the West.
Just take another look at the membership number of shmups.org = Its tiny! Considering it represents English speaking people who have an interest in the genre in the Western World and beyond.


Marginalized is the word of the day.

[Sonic R]

The large corporations are pushing small businesses out (but that's another story ).

Indeed another story for another time

I am sure the state of California does not allow for money issuing slot machines or any other machine or devise for the use of gambling - My family and I have made the drive from the bay (San Jose) to Reno for gambling needs.

The best option for arcade machines in the USA may be to have them at other venues. This exist already but it is really not profit generating - places like the bowling alley, billiards hall, and movie theater.

The last two arcade games I played were while waiting to view a movie - Zero Gunner 2 (player 1 stick was broken/player 2 was ok) and Tekken Tag Tournement (player 1 stick was junk for left movement)

I actually played Tekken Tag yesterday while waiting to go view the Transformers movie with my daughter. She only watched as she is not like fight games - I played 7 rounds on one credit then it was time to view the film.

[captain ahar]

1. Risking some $$$ to open one up would simply be a magnanimous gesture with you being the Benefactor, unless you combined the business/arcade with slot machines or some other revenue gaining service to bolster up the lack of revenue coming from the vids.

if i had some undgodly amount of money, i'd do this. get a decent space, some nice japanese cabs, loaded with great games. and i'd have a membership program for entrance. with terms to protect my equipment, and i'd collect id's at the door.

when of my more pipe-ish dreams.

[iatneH]

1. Risking some $$$ to open one up would simply be a magnanimous gesture with you being the Benefactor, unless you combined the business/arcade with slot machines or some other revenue gaining service to bolster up the lack of revenue coming from the vids.

if i had some undgodly amount of money, i'd do this. get a decent space, some nice japanese cabs, loaded with great games. and i'd have a membership program for entrance. with terms to protect my equipment, and i'd collect id's at the door.

when of my more pipe-ish dreams. :)

If _I_ had some ungodly amount of money, I'd do this. But have it set up so I can play in the comfort of my own home like the lazy North American I am. Wouldn't be open to the public, either. Not like the public would want to play nothing but shooters anyway.

[EOJ]

Ever compare a Japanese arcade flyer to an American one? The American ones usually have a stupid catchphrase with the word "profits" (e.g. Soar Into Profits with Afterburner Climax!) and not much else.

You must not have looked at many Japanese fliers, as many of them do the same thing-- "Amazing Income potential!!".

[kengou]

Arcades used to have better games than you could get at home. Now, home consoles are as good, if not better, than a lot of arcade games (arguable... I mean that MOST people have this viewpoint nowadays).

Also why go out when you can game at home?

Also why pay a few dollars every time you want to play a few games, when you can make a 1-time payment and probably save money in the long run (if you're a hardcore gamer).

I'll admit I'm not part of the 'arcade generation', I grew up with a SNES. Sure I went to an arcade occasionally but it was never a regular thing and I never obsessed over beating scores or meeting people at arcades. I can play shmups at home. I can play fighters at home. I can play FPSes at home (replacement for light-gun games). I can play racing games at home. What reason is there for me to drive 10 minutes to my local arcade in order to play games?

[DEL]

What reason is there for me to drive 10 minutes to my local arcade in order to play games?

Just the social aspect I guess.

You might meet people....shock....Horror!!

[JoshF]

You must not have looked at many Japanese fliers, as many of them do the same thing-- "Amazing Income potential!!".

But they tell you what the game actually is.

[stuminator]

What reason is there for me to drive 10 minutes to my local arcade in order to play games?

Just the social aspect I guess.

You might meet people....shock....Horror!!

The atmosphere. Playing games in an arcade is just... different. I suppose the best analogy is a restaurant. Doesn't it feel different to sit down and eat in a restaurant, as opposed to calling an order in, picking it up and eating at home? The food is the same, but the experience of eating it isn't.

[kengou]

The atmosphere. Playing games in an arcade is just... different. I suppose the best analogy is a restaurant. Doesn't it feel different to sit down and eat in a restaurant, as opposed to calling an order in, picking it up and eating at home? The food is the same, but the experience of eating it isn't.

If the food is the same, then I probably would just eat it at home. More convenient.

I'm not saying I'm right or anything like that. I'm showing you what the thought process is for someone who doesn't go to arcades very much. Maybe I can help you all better understand why arcades are failing.

[JoshF]

I really don't think arcades are essential, it's the accompanying design philosophy that's important and it's not impossible for a console game (port or exclusive) to use the model.

[GaijinPunch]

I think for arcades to survive, they would have to be aimed at older people. There's not an arcade in Japan that you cannot smoke in. In fact, there's very fe that don't make you cough upon walking in due to all the second hand smoke.

And DEL's comment about slots & other medal games. There are no "games only" game centers anymore. All the larger ones have at least as much floor space devoted to medal games as our kinds of games. The smaller ones will have some type of print club floor or something to get the hos in and spending the money they make from smoking pole or whatever it is young women do for work.