Shmupping with a Keyboard

[Icarus]

One thing you keyboard people should bear in mind: arcade cabinets use sticks by default, and there are no cabs I know of that have a USB connector for external peripherals. Remember that when you go to play on someone else's cab or visit Japan. -_-;;

Also, don't you think it's weird how all the top WR holders use sticks/pads and not keyboards? Probably because, like keyb players, that's what they've been using for years and are comfortable with? It has nothing to do with "co-ordination" or "reacting/moving faster with three fingers as opposed to one", it is what they have a lot of experience with. You use any system for an extended period of time, and you will naturally find more comfort with it.

One control system is not better than another, no matter what arguments you use.

[Shatterhand]

And dont even get me started on trying to use keyboard for FIGHTING games...... that's a whole other rant.

Please, if you ever come to Rio de Janeiro, you'll be my guest You'll be able to watch me unleashing Raising Storms one after the other using a keyboard.


Of course, I'd prefer a stick anyday, but I can play without much problems with a Keyboard (since I grow up playing on keyboards anyway). Supers, DMs, LDMs or whatever , I can throw them without much problem... I actuallty PREFER playing fighting games on Keyboard than on the shitty Dualshock2, for example.

I find 6 buttons game harder to play than 4 buttons game though.

[Shatterhand]

Actually, now that I thought more about it... I didn't grow up using a keyboard.

I used lots of different kind of controls. Guess that's why I can adapt do different controlers so quickly.

I've used this
and this
and this
and this
and this
and this
and this

and a lotta more different controllers. All those were used in my "childhood", in my MSX and Amiga times.

And I've also played many games with te QA-OP-Space scheme. It works very well too.

[PROMETHEUS]

One thing you keyboard people should bear in mind: arcade cabinets use sticks by default, and there are no cabs I know of that have a USB connector for external peripherals. Remember that when you go to play on someone else's cab or visit Japan. -_-;;

Also, don't you think it's weird how all the top WR holders use sticks/pads and not keyboards? Probably because, like keyb players, that's what they've been using for years and are comfortable with? It has nothing to do with "co-ordination" or "reacting/moving faster with three fingers as opposed to one", it is what they have a lot of experience with. You use any system for an extended period of time, and you will naturally find more comfort with it.

One control system is not better than another, no matter what arguments you use.

I disagree with the last statement but agree with the experience thing.

Some controllers can be definitely better than others. For example, don't try to tell me you can be a pro at any serious RTS or FPS with a gamepad or stick. Maybe someone who played a lot with a gamepad can win a match against a newbie, but passed a certain skill level no one can compete with anything else than a keyboard and mouse.

For shmups, the difference in quality between keyboards / sticks / game pads is much less significant, but we can still find arguments pointing out why one controller is better or what are its positive and negative points.

[PROMETHEUS]

And I've also played many games with te QA-OP-Space scheme. It works very well too.

This is a god damn good idea O_o!, I wonder why I've been playing dumbly with QASD for so long lol, QA-OP sounds obviously better~! I'll give it a try soon (guess I'm gonna eat some bullets -_-)

[Icarus]

Some controllers can be definitely better than others. For example, don't try to tell me you can be a pro at any serious RTS or FPS with a gamepad or stick. Maybe someone who played a lot with a gamepad can win a match against a newbie, but passed a certain skill level no one can compete with anything else than a keyboard and mouse.

For shmups, the difference in quality between keyboards / sticks / game pads is much less significant, but we can still find arguments pointing out why one controller is better or what are its positive and negative points.

The only thing more ridiculous than comparing a keyb to a stick or pad, is using games that were obviously designed with a mouse and keyboard in mind to illustrate a comparison between controllers.

Because that is exactly what you just did.

To reiterate for the illiterate, no controller type is better than another for shootemups. It all depends on how comfortable you are with a particular controller type and your particular level of skill with that controller. Since you yourself have more experience with a keyb, of course you will think that a keyb is better than a joypad or stick, just as a Japanese player will think you're a bit of a weirdo for using a keyboard over a stick/pad, simply because said Japanese player has been using a stick/pad more often for shooting games.

Trying to find faults with one controller over another smacks of elitism and stupidity. If you don't like a stick, fine, don't use it. Just don't complain if you jump on the stick/pad bandwagon because "everyone else is" and find that it somehow doesn't live up to the great expectations.

[kengou]

Some controllers can be definitely better than others. For example, don't try to tell me you can be a pro at any serious RTS or FPS with a gamepad or stick. Maybe someone who played a lot with a gamepad can win a match against a newbie, but passed a certain skill level no one can compete with anything else than a keyboard and mouse.

For shmups, the difference in quality between keyboards / sticks / game pads is much less significant, but we can still find arguments pointing out why one controller is better or what are its positive and negative points.

The only thing more ridiculous than comparing a keyb to a stick or pad, is using games that were obviously designed with a mouse and keyboard in mind to illustrate a comparison between controllers.

Because that is exactly what you just did.

To reiterate for the illiterate, no controller type is better than another for shootemups. It all depends on how comfortable you are with a particular controller type and your particular level of skill with that controller. Since you yourself have more experience with a keyb, of course you will think that a keyb is better than a joypad or stick, just as a Japanese player will think you're a bit of a weirdo for using a keyboard over a stick/pad, simply because said Japanese player has been using a stick/pad more often for shooting games.

Trying to find faults with one controller over another smacks of elitism and stupidity. If you don't like a stick, fine, don't use it. Just don't complain if you jump on the stick/pad bandwagon because "everyone else is" and find that it somehow doesn't live up to the great expectations.

Chill out. Prometheus is making a good point, which is that it depends on the game how good one controller is compared to another. A blanket statement like "all controllers are equal always, it only matters what your personal preference is" just isn't true; games are designed with a controller in mind. Controllers also are different; some have better features than others. In the case of RTS, it's a mouse, and no joystick can give you better control. In the case of a shmup, they are indeed designed for a joystick. This thread is about the viability of playing with a keyboard, and I personally think keyboards work quite well. I grew up on both computer games and consoles, so it's not like I've never handled controllers before; I just play as well (if not better) with a keyboard.

Saying all sticks or controllers are created equal simply isn't true. Try playing well on a sticky D-pad or a really slippery analog stick, for example; some controllers simply aren't as good as others. Some controllers aren't as accurate or quick as others.

[-Bridget-]

And dont even get me started on trying to use keyboard for FIGHTING games...... that's a whole other rant.

Please, if you ever come to Rio de Janeiro, you'll be my guest You'll be able to watch me unleashing Raising Storms one after the other using a keyboard.


Of course, I'd prefer a stick anyday, but I can play without much problems with a Keyboard (since I grow up playing on keyboards anyway). Supers, DMs, LDMs or whatever , I can throw them without much problem... I actuallty PREFER playing fighting games on Keyboard than on the shitty Dualshock2, for example.

I find 6 buttons game harder to play than 4 buttons game though.

Oh, dont get me wrong, I CAN use a keyboard for fighters........ Guilty Gear is my main game, I can do complicated combos with it if I see the need.....

........but I dont see the need. I use a basic controller for the speed of it and refuse to use arcade sticks (which slow me down and also just tire me out).


Honestly, Im not too fond of Sony and their stupid Dualshock controllers either myself, but...... Well, it does the job once you get used to it.

Of course, getting used to it is the problem......


As for Shmups, Im finding I actually prefer the 360 controller over Sony's stupid thing.

But then, I usually prefer other brands over Sony.



Also, I tend to agree with the general sentiment of "just use whatever works best for you", even despite my earlier ramblings (a bit too much caffiene last night, sue me).

In the world of Fighting games, which is where I spend most of my time, the general (annoying) sentiment is "You're a total NOOB if you dont use an arcade stick!!!111".


Now, I can understand the logic behind some of the arguements for a stick for fighters. It's not that they dont make sense.

But I use a D-pad, and until somebody with a stick can completely defeat me....... which hasnt happened yet....... I'll stick with the D-pad, thank you. The stupid sticks make my arm hurt.


BUT, at the same time, each option should at least be given a try...... and I mean a FULL try, not "well I messed with it for an hour and it's annoying". Takes time to get used to any of these well enough to use them fully.


And I had more here, but I forgot what it was......

[Icarus]

A blanket statement like "all controllers are equal always, it only matters what your personal preference is" just isn't true; games are designed with a controller in mind.

ORLY?
You don't say.

Controllers also are different; some have better features than others. In the case of RTS, it's a mouse, and no joystick can give you better control. In the case of a shmup, they are indeed designed for a joystick.

Well duh. Of course an RTS is made with a mouse and keyb in mind. Especially considering the mass of hotkeys and key combinations required to play something like C&C3 at any real level. That is miles different from a shootemup that only requires something to move your character and a couple of fire buttons.

30 keys and a mouse.
Four movement buttons and three fire buttons.
Huge world of difference.

Not to mention the fact that a keyb can be configured in so many different ways, while a pad/stick only gives you a certain amount of combinations. Keybs are suited to more complex button-heavy games, but can be used for shooters as well. That doesn't mean to say that a keyb is superior to a stick/pad, because it isn't. It is equal to a stick/pad, and the only thing that seperates the three is the comfort a particular player has with it.

Thought that would have been obvious by now.

This thread is about the viability of playing with a keyboard, and I personally think keyboards work quite well. I grew up on both computer games and consoles, so it's not like I've never handled controllers before; I just play as well (if not better) with a keyboard.

*clap clap clap*
Congratulations, Captain Obvious.
Thanks for pretty much confirming my point of no controller is better than another, all that matters is a player's skill and comfort with it.

Saying all sticks or controllers are created equal simply isn't true. Try playing well on a sticky D-pad or a really slippery analog stick, for example; some controllers simply aren't as good as others. Some controllers aren't as accurate or quick as others.

That goes into the quality of the controller (how well the controller is made, and how well it has been kept), not the controller type itself. Obviously a sticky d-pad or a loose throw joystick will feel less responsive than a tight d-pad or a short throw joystick. That goes without saying. I could argue that a larger keyboard is better than a smaller keyboard for shooting games, but that would be a waste of my time.

Why do you think so many players here lament on Saturn-style pads or the Seimitsu LS-32? Because their build quality is second to none and they are extremely responsive. They are considered the best in their class of controller types. If you buy cheap knock-off sticks/pads, you're likely to see a decrease in responsiveness.

This argument is moot. Keyb, pad, stick, whatever.

[PROMETHEUS]

The only thing more ridiculous than comparing a keyb to a stick or pad, is using games that were obviously designed with a mouse and keyboard in mind to illustrate a comparison between controllers.

O RLY?

Well duh. Of course an RTS is made[...]
[...]This argument is moot. Keyb, pad, stick, whatever.

I guess it's no use repeating what we said to make you understand our point... just try and re-read the posts we wrote before, and give another shot at arguing.

[Icarus]

The only thing more ridiculous than comparing a keyb to a stick or pad, is using games that were obviously designed with a mouse and keyboard in mind to illustrate a comparison between controllers.

O RLY?

YA RLY.

Well duh. Of course an RTS is made[...]
[...]This argument is moot. Keyb, pad, stick, whatever.

I guess it's no use repeating what we said to make you understand our point... just try and re-read the posts we wrote before, and give another shot at arguing.

And it's no use repeating what I've been saying just to make you understand my point. Go and reread my posts before you go and shortquote me, and completely miss my point as a result. If you think a keyb works better than a stick/pad, then more power to you. You could argue that a trackball is the best shootemup controller ever, and it wouldn't make a difference. All that matters in the end is comfort and skill. A controller is merely a means to an end.

[freddiebamboo]

Quality stuff here

Keyboard, dpad, stick - it doesn't really matter, if you are comfortable with it, you'll do well.

Icarus, get on the sega fission rod and put on a show

[Ko.oS]

well, the only "tip" i can give is this - once you switch to a different controller (keyb > stick), try choosing an entirely new game (or games) to practice with / get warmed up, else you will only get frustrated (in the sense that you might not be able to pull of the same shit you could before). and yea, if you got some free cash, switch to a stick, you wont regret, promise. ;)

[Bloodreign]

I play by keyboard, and by pad, neither affects my play on most shmups, I just feel like being stubborn and using the keyboard sometimes (the only PC pad I have is a Gravis GameshittyPro Pad), boy do I need to get myself a PS2 to PC adaptor.

[PROMETHEUS]

omg Ko.oS isn't your avatar the little guy that does silly stuff in the middle of the screen in Dr. Robotnik's Meanbean Machine in an attempt to make the players lose focus ?!

[Shatterhand]

His name is Carbuncle ! He's in most, if not every Puyo Puyo game

[themachinist]

zomg HAY PAD R BETTAR! I play on pads the best but want to switch to stick because it's more fun IMO. Calm down guys . Who cares what you use to shmup in your own home? I highly doubt you guys will convince each other of which is "better" regardless of how well formed each respective argument may be.

[Bloodreign]

Whatever you use to play shmups, play well with, each player has their method of play, and have their method of playing games with different sorts of pads, keyboards and sticks.

In the end it doesn't come down to which pad you use, but how good you are with said pad/stick/keyboard.

[Pirate1019]

This thread was veering straight down the path the old one (The one I linked to). It's less vehement now, but all of the same points are being made.

[angrycoder]

Just remember this, no matter how awesome your joystick, pad, or keyboard is, there is probably some 7 year old kid in Korea who can beat Mushi Ultra mode using a DDR mat and a Wiimote.