Is it just me or is Raiden III just like Raiden II?

[kengou]

I've had Raiden II on PC for a while and it's fun and all. I just today got Raiden III for PC, and it seems EXACTLY the same as Raiden II. The mechanics are identical. Some of the bosses are the same. The only differences I see are: only 1 type of bomb; awesome purple beam gun replaced by crappy green beam gun; blue missiles added that seem like a cross between the yellow and green missiles. Other than that, are there seriously any differences worth noting? It annoys me when they package the exact same game with updated graphics as a new game.

Also, while the game is still very fun to play, is there anything deeper to the scoring mechanic than killing everything and getting all the bees and coins?

[Pirate1019]

Is it just me or...

You're just asking for it.

[MX7]

In after you're just asking for it.

[shoe-sama]

It's just you.

[kemical]

I feel like Raiden 4 is even more like Raiden 2 than raiden 3. Which is a good thing.

[shinsage]

Raiden III is Raiden II with ugly graphics and a remixed Vampire Killer.

[kengou]

Raiden III is Raiden II with ugly graphics and a remixed Vampire Killer.

I like the graphics myself. The yellow bullets and yellow explosions blend together often which is annoying, but the rest is very nice to look at.

I realize sequels are supposed to sort of feel like the same game, but not THIS much. DDP feels like a much improved version of DP; the mechanics of the game are improved. I don't feel like they significantly changed or improved anything in Raiden III though.

[Rob]

Should've read some impressions.

Doesn't add much of anything: yes. "Exactly" the same: no. It would be better if that was the case. Seems horribly bland 10 years after DX.

[kengou]

I read some impressions. I was just expecting more of a change/improvement than what I encountered. Good thing I didn't buy it (advantage of the PC version... )

[gameoverDude]

It's not exactly the same. Stages 4 and 5 have some new kinds of stuff there. Raiden III does seem to back off on difficulty a bit compared to II, and it doesn't loop after you finish it (I don't mind that, since after 7 stages I'd rather have the game end).

I do miss the Miclus in Raiden III. Hopefully they'll have him hidden somewhere in IV.

Moss needs to bring out a new Raiden Fighters after RIV hits the home systems.

[Rob]

Good thing I didn't buy it (advantage of the PC version... )

So you made a thread complaining about something you didn't buy? Seemed slightly less retarded when I thought it was an I wasted money on THIS? type of thread.

We covered Raiden 3's mediocrity a long time ago.

[angrycoder]

maybe you can call your cable internet provider and they can refund you for the bandwidth you used up downloading it.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Taito used the same idea in creating it's Raystorm game (3-D polygonal-based graphics) when looking back at it's RayForce game (2-D based sprites) -- it managed to pull it off quite wonderfully. Is this what Seibu/Moss intended to do with Raiden III (by giving it a 3-D polygonal treament while still resembling a bit like the classic 2-D sprite based Raiden II game)?

The third and final one, RayCrisis, is both a sequel and a prequel to the RayForce/Raystorm universe/timeline...sounds confusing but it's true. At the end of RayCrisis, the shmupper is told of the unfolding events that leads up to the current situation of "Operation RayForce"...so much for Taito messing with our poor ol' noggins with the Ray/Force/Storm/Crisis series storylines..... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[kengou]

I'm complaining because there's a reasonable expectation that game companies should design sequels that actually improve on the game design in a meaningful way, otherwise it's essentially a remake. How many of you play arcade games using MAME? You'd complain about the same thing for any MAME shmup sequel if the same thing happened. Paying has nothing to do with it.

[shinsage]

Raiden III is Raiden II with ugly graphics and a remixed Vampire Killer.

I like the graphics myself.

I like them too.
Still ugly Type-X.

[Bloodreign]

Also, while the game is still very fun to play, is there anything deeper to the scoring mechanic than killing everything and getting all the bees and coins?

Medals (not to be confused with coins) I see, bees I've not seen in the game, you're playing the wrong game then. Perhaps you're really playing the Donpachi series. :O

And it's just you.

[kengou]

Maybe they're fairies or something, I really can't tell. I figured they were bees because of the ones in DDP.

There's one right in the middle of level 1 inside this burning crater on the right side of the screen. Raiden II had them as well.

[Rob]

Maybe they're fairies or something, I really can't tell.

I'm no graphics obsessive, but maybe it's time for a new TV. Or glasses.

[Goemar]

It was more how the cool level blending was taken out. And how only 2 player could use the toothpaste laser or something like that. I didn't play it much as compared to DX it was nothing. Even the music isn't as good.

[themachinist]

I like it....

[MikeB]

I like it also but I miss the toothpaste gun

I'd direct you to Stuart Campbell's Raiden III review on my site for an extremely well thought-out argument in its defense.

Mike B

[hikarutilmitt]

Honestly, I really liked the first 2 Raiden games as well as the Fighters series, so when I first played III I was fairly unimpressed.

Thing is, the more I play it the more I enjoy it. I do miss the toothpaste gun as most do, but the game is still a lot of fun, making me want IV that much more.

[kengou]

I never said I didn't like it. In my opening post I said it was a lot of fun, just like Raiden II was. I just wish they had changed or added more to it, to truly make it a sequel. It feels like Raiden 2.5, instead of Raiden 3.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

I like it as a game. It's not the best shmup graphically or gameplay wise but many would argue that the first two aren't either. Yet I keep coming back for more. Sometimes it's nice to have a more realistic military shmup. It's a fine game and I feel that it captures the feeling of the first two. It's not really a "modern" feeling shmup, which is why many people dislike it.

[kengou]

I like it also but I miss the toothpaste gun

I'd direct you to Stuart Campbell's Raiden III review on my site for an extremely well thought-out argument in its defense.

Mike B

While an interesting review, I'll point to the single part of the review that mentioned the changes in this version to previous instalments to actually prove my own point:

There are a couple of important changes, though, and like Gradius V (a game Raiden 3's designers clearly took notice of in more ways than one) they're changes in favour of the player. Firstly, this is - at last! - a Raiden game which comes with rapid continuous autofire as standard on all weapons, so there's no more painful perpetual pummelling of the fire button. Secondly, you no longer start out with a feeble pop-gun firing only a couple of weak bullets - your initial Vulcan cannon is the equivalent of the original Raiden's one powered up about four times, pumping out a quite formidable three-way spread of fire from the word go. And most significantly of all - finally fixing one of the most annoying quirks of the original games - your weapons' power levels are now interchangeable.

Now, I've never played any arcade versions of Raiden II, but the version I have on my PC has two of these features already. I can hold the fire button for autofire on any gun in Raiden II. It also has interchangable power levels for the different weapons. If I power up red to max, then get a blue powerup, I have max blue now. (for me at least) This wasn't new in Raiden III. Now, if all three of these features have somehow not shown up in any Raiden game before Raiden III, except for this obscure PC version that I alone posess (unlikely), then I can understand; these would be great changes if they hadn't been implemented before. But they were.

I actually found an answer to my initial question about the scoring system in this review, too. Here's another quote.

In earlier games, the "medals" left behind by some destroyed enemies had a complicated points-value equation depending on when you collected them. Here that's gone, replaced by a straightforward score, in addition to the bonus you get for your medals at the end of each level. Really hardcore players might bemoan this change, but it makes for a much purer game. You lose all your accumulated medals every time you die, so it's still a risk to go for them if you want to maximise your end-of-level bonus.

The points value of each enemy is determined by how quickly after its appearance you destroy it - blowing something up the instant it appears on the screen is worth double points, with the multiplier decreasing closer to 1.0 the longer the enemy survives.

I don't like that they "simplified" the medal system, but I do like the multiplier for speedily killing enemies.

My take on Raiden III is nestled into one of the first couple paragraphs of this review:

And the first things you notice are that in the intervening eight years, (a) not very much seems to have changed, and (b) one of the things that HAS changed is a huge and catastrophically-wrong butchering of the previous game's most iconic and loved feature.

[God]

So you made a thread complaining about something you didn't buy?

Your NES thread is full of low scores and games you didn't buy.

[sven666]

why is everyone always complaining about the lack of a toothpaste lazer?

nobody plays with that shit in raiden2/dx anyways because aside from looking cool its absoluteley pants!

[kengou]

The toothpaste laser is representative of Raiden games. It looks cool and it's great for taking down swaths of popcorn enemies while at the same time concentrating fire on a single larger enemy, due to how it bends and loops around. The green-crap laser they replaced it with is one of the most useless weapons I've ever used in any Shmup. Seriously.

[themachinist]

If I power up red to max, then get a blue powerup, I have max blue now. (for me at least) This wasn't new in Raiden III.

What was new in Raiden III was that if you had Red powered at lvl x, if you THEN got a Blue power up, it'd be at lvl (x + 1). In previous Raiden games it'd just be x again, but blue, meaning no increase in power.

I miss the purple laser too. It's like everyone's favorite weapon in that game. Iconic!

Anyway, I can finally reach Stage 4 somewhat consistently... sort of.

[FRO]

I think the pacing in III is more intense than 2 from the start. I don't know about the later stages (haven't passed 3 yet), but lat least from the start, the more modern setting & more quick pacing (in terms of enemies & how much gets thrown at you) makes things different. Other obvious differences would be the absence of the "toothpaste" laser, as well as the soundtrack having a different feel/vibe to it.