Most influential shooters

DazTM · Post by **DazTM** » Tue May 22, 2007 9:42 pm

Hi guys, I'm slowly putting together my super duper shmups feature, and would like to hear your views on the following.

I'd love to know what you think are the most influential shooters and why.

So far I've been thinking of titles like Scramble, R-Type, Do-Donpachi, Radiant Silvergun and Ikuraga.

I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions though.

Oh, and apologies if I've not been back in touch with you yet, I've only just come off a deadline.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Tue May 22, 2007 9:53 pm

Ikuraga?

And, for the life of me, I can't think how the latter half of those games have influenced much of anything outside the rather small genre. Sure, they've had lots of influence (DDP especially) in the genre, but I don't think you could argue that Ikaruga's light/dark influenced Metroid Prime Echoes.

On the other hand, Gradius-style powerup progression has been seen in a fair number of games, with a fair number outside the shmup genre.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Tue May 22, 2007 10:14 pm

Further discussion here:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6495&start=0

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Tue May 22, 2007 10:30 pm

- Space Invaders
- Galaga
- Xevious
- R-Type
- Dodonpachi

Those are the 5 most influential, no need to discuss further.

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:11 am

I think Ikaruga counts as influential. Even if it's mostly for helping the genre get some public attention.

CIT's list works pretty well as a top 5. Although I have to wonder if Gradius belongs to R-Type's spot.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:23 am

Selective power-ups over weapon charging? I think not.

Dodonpachi over Batsugun Special Ver.? I dunno, I'd say small hitbox and crazy firepower beats chaining.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:11 am

A few more:

- Defender (1980): First horizontal scroller; first smart bombs; first 'collecting-type' chaining score system; first multi-paths via Outer Space route if all humanoids die (?)...

- Stargate (aka Defender 2, 1981): First secondary weapon (Invisio) for defence/ offence; first level selecting mechanism via 'Stargate' (?)...

- Solar Fox (1981): First controllable, dual speed (fast/ slow) ship (?)...

- Space Wars (1977): First 'versus' shmup; First 2-player shmup...

- Robotron: 2084 (1982): First 'dual sticks' control for independent, multi-directional firing and movement...

- Image Fight (1988): First controllable, multi- directional 'satellites' (?)...

- SWAT (Sega/ Coreland, 1984): First 'puzzle-em-up' (?)...

- Fantasy Zone (1986): First weapon shops...

- Space Duel (1980): First 'double-play', aka dual ship control with one player; first 2-player co-op mode...

- Moon Cresta (1980): First ship upgrade...

- Galaxian (1979): First enemy 'chaining' scoring system (?) or Space Invaders (?)...

... some are 'Arena' shmups and not your 'conventional' type... Well, these are off the top of my head and some elements would be more influential than others obviously...

All these are AFAIK... You could try cross-referencing with other sources etc...

EDIT:

Added 2-player co-op first, for Space Duel.

DazTM · Post by **DazTM** » Wed May 23, 2007 8:45 am

Thanks for the ideas so far guys, it's really helpful. Keep em coming

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:44 pm

Also Stargate could be considered the first with proximity/ melee/ buzzing (depending on definition) with it's "invisio" weapon...

Defender predates Moon Patrol with parallax scrolling, i.e. the star-field scrolls at a different speed to the foreground... Also first multi-directional scroller and with variable scrolling speed with 'manual-thrust'...

- Asteroids Deluxe (1980): First with shield...

I'll add more as they come...

scrilla4rella · Post by **scrilla4rella** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:01 pm

Radiant Silvergun, hellow!

roker · Post by **roker** » Wed May 23, 2007 11:53 pm

where does Battle Garegga fit in?

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Thu May 24, 2007 1:28 am

behind Gun Frontier and Batsugun, ahead of Dodonpachi. :p

roker · Post by **roker** » Thu May 24, 2007 3:49 am

oxtsu wrote:behind Gun Frontier and Batsugun, ahead of Dodonpachi. :p

I like your style of thinking!

Dandy J · Post by **Dandy J** » Thu May 24, 2007 11:02 am

roker wrote:where does Battle Garegga fit in?

Battle Garegga inspired Cave to make DoDonpachi with tons of bullets and a small hitbox.

exquisite_torture · Post by **exquisite_torture** » Thu May 24, 2007 3:58 pm

It's an excellent game, but even the name Ikaruga is becoming something of a cliche now - as is trying to find the most influential shmup.
I'd count the old Nihon Busan stuff.

Andi · Post by **Andi** » Thu May 24, 2007 4:01 pm

What game had the first boss? Xevious has some early boss-like bases. Phoenix had the mothership battles. Anything earlier?

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Thu May 24, 2007 4:07 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote:Ikuraga?

You FAIL.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Thu May 24, 2007 4:42 pm

As does everyone else for not mentioning Darius.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Thu May 24, 2007 5:31 pm

Andi wrote:What game had the first boss? Xevious has some early boss-like bases. Phoenix had the mothership battles. Anything earlier?

I always considered the 'mothership' in Space Invaders (1978) akin to a 'boss'...

Phoenix has enemies that could be destroyed in 'multi-parts'... Defender also has something similar when 'pods' get destroyed and several 'swarmers' get released. It predates Phoenix AFAIK...

Phoenix also has a 'shield' button... as does Asteroids Deluxe, which also predates it AFAIK...

On a side note: Is there a database of arcade release dates that are more accurate than just the 'year' of release?

exquisite_torture · Post by **exquisite_torture** » Thu May 24, 2007 5:49 pm

Commando

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Thu May 24, 2007 5:55 pm

Blade wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:Ikuraga?
You FAIL.

DazTM wrote:So far I've been thinking of titles like Scramble, R-Type, Do-Donpachi, Radiant Silvergun and Ikuraga.

More like DazTM failed that one since Ed was quoting him... sorry Daz.

I would however rate Gradius above R-Type, since Gradius had a more widespread audience as R-Type I don't made as much of an impact until later on. If anything it's a contest perhaps between R-Type and Darius, although R-Type may win that out. I'd choose Darius personally.

It's worth noting most influential doesn't necessarily mean first game to do blah blah blah. Ikaruga, for example being such a new game, wasn't the first to enable chaining, although the colour swap it could very well have been the first. It's influence however is much greater than what it could've started first. Coming out long after the West mainstream audience forgot about shooters and being of such quality people had took notice and it brought the spotlight back on the genre. That speaks volumes for influence. Since Ikaruga I cannot think of many games that have left an impression such as that, not even Gradius 5.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Thu May 24, 2007 6:27 pm

What do you guys say Darius is most influential with though? The wiiidescreen? That didn't really catch on though. Just the big bosses? Warning screens?

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Thu May 24, 2007 6:36 pm

No love for X-Multiply? Vanguard? River Raid?

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Thu May 24, 2007 6:42 pm

Sales penetration/ exposure is an obvious measure for influence. Is there an all-time list for something like that?

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Thu May 24, 2007 7:04 pm

szycag wrote:What do you guys say Darius is most influential with though? The wiiidescreen? That didn't really catch on though. Just the big bosses? Warning screens?

Presentation. The sum of all you quote is what makes Darius so epic and grand in scope. Before Darius, I had never felt so involved into the theme of a shmup. It really conveyed the feel of an exodus war.

Branching zone system.
Widescreen.
Cool tunes for their time.
Detailed graphics.
Huge-ass bosses (with unique names)
Level-up weapons.
And the Silverhawk is just plain cool.

I don't think any other shooter before that had put all of those features together.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:44 pm

szycag wrote:What do you guys say Darius is most influential with though? The wiiidescreen? That didn't really catch on though. Just the big bosses? Warning screens?

What about non-linear levels and introduction of cinematic qualities?

EDIT: Read Specineff's explanation instead.

gigadrive32 · Post by **gigadrive32** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:55 pm

Defender
Xevious
Gradius
1942
R-Type
Raiden
Thunder Force III
RayForce / Layer Section

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Thu May 24, 2007 9:10 pm

Raiden was the first doujin shmup.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Thu May 24, 2007 9:24 pm

Some people seem to mistake "first to do something" with influential.

You do not need to be first to do something in order to be influential.

Rather you need to popularize a certain overall style or concept to the extend that it will cause a sort of paradigm shift in the entire field.

For example:

Although Batsugun Special Version was the first to do the mass bullets with tiny hitbox, people didn't actually get the play the game until a couple years later, when it was included in the Saturn release, which already was targeted towards a niche audience.

Dodonpachi on the other hand, is really only an expansion of ideas from Batsugun and Donpachi (made by the same ppl as we all know) and didn't bring that much new to the table, but it perfected the formal move towards danmaku and was the first wide-release game to gain such popularity that the style was adopted by many other games from different creators.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Thu May 24, 2007 9:30 pm

CIT wrote:Some people seem to mistake "first to do something" with influential.

You do not need to be first to do something in order to be influential.
...

Off course you don't.

The OP was asking for your opinion on the matter.

E.g. Game A could do something first and innovative and not be a success. Game B 'steals' idea from game A and gets all the 'credit'. I'd rather give credit to the 'originator' of said idea...

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