Ketsui for DS?!

Sensato Kurai · Post by **Sensato Kurai** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:10 pm

To me, handhelds are good as long as its about exclusive titles. I'm not interested in handheld ports of games that have seen home system releases. Basicaly because of the small display, controls issues and the fact that I seldom use handhelds in cars, planes or buses. I mainly play portables inside the house or, on sunny days, at the nudist camp, showing my "skills".

That said, handheld shmupping can still be pretty interesting if you ask me, Judgement Silversword for exemple has shown that to myself. When It comes to the port of an arcade-born manic though, I find it hard to think that it could work well. I'd still be interested in trying it.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:32 pm

Sensato Kurai wrote:To me, handhelds are good as long as its about exclusive titles. I'm not interested in handheld ports of games that have seen home system releases. Basicaly because of the small display, controls issues and the fact that I seldom use handhelds in cars, planes or buses. I mainly play portables inside the house or, on sunny days, at the nudist camp, showing my "skills".

That said, handheld shmupping can still be pretty interesting if you ask me, Judgement Silversword for exemple has shown that to myself. When It comes to the port of an arcade born manic though, I find it hard to think that it could work well. I'd still be interestedin trying it.

Good points about JS. But Ketsui might never see a home port, and if the DS is the platform that gets one, why not? And as far as home system to handheld releases, look at GBA Steel Empire. When I gave that a try on Visual Boy, it was literally like playing an arcade shmup in MAME. I was blown away by the quality; particularly the sound. GBA Phalanx is also superior to the SNES port, try it out and you'll see.

Monk 0 Nuggets · Post by **Monk 0 Nuggets** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:09 am

SFKhoa wrote:
Monk 0 Nuggets wrote:
No way dude. I have an original DS and the lite blows it out of the water in every category. Not only is the original DS top heavy, making it somewhat awkward, but the difference in screen quality between the original and lite is so great that there is no contest. Lite is king.
You're missing the point that the Original DS's D-Pad owns the Lite's any day.

The difference of feel in the two d-pads does not out weight the upgrades else where in the machine.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:42 pm

They're a real tossup for me. The lite has MUUUUUCH better picture, better built in stylus, superior shoulder buttons, and a better battery life. The DS has better built in speakers, a MUUUUCH better d-pad, and I like the face buttons better too. I like the bulky feel of it better to for some reason, but that's more personal preference.

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Tue May 08, 2007 6:15 pm

Mihara talked some more about Ketsui DS in his latest blog. (I think) he says he'll get around to making progress on it one of these days, but it's still undecided whether this will be actually released. However, he does say he'd like to have it out by the end of the year so we may see some form of the game before too long.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue May 08, 2007 6:19 pm

NTSC-J wrote:Mihara talked some more about Ketsui DS in his latest blog. (I think) he says he'll get around to making progress on it one of these days, but it's still undecided whether this will be actually released. However, he does say he'd like to have it out by the end of the year so we may see some form of the game before too long.

NICE!! Thanks for that update! Here's hoping that we will see it by the end of the year!

I thought that he had initially said that it might get a PS3 release, which would be nice for PS3 owners, since most (or all?) PS3 games so far seem to be region-free.

I love everything about the DS Lite better then the original, including the D-Pad and buttons. I was pretty much sold on the Lite over the original when I had a chance to play the Lite at GDC '06.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue May 08, 2007 10:55 pm

I thought that he had initially said that it might get a PS3 release, which would be nice for PS3 owners, since most (or all?) PS3 games so far seem to be region-free.

He specifically said that the chances of it appearing on a current gen system are almost zero, due to problems selling an arcade shooting game on these systems.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue May 08, 2007 11:01 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:He specifically said that the chances of it appearing on a current gen system are almost zero, due to problems selling an arcade shooting game on these systems.

Yep. The age of the console Cave port has come to an end. For everything post-Ibara, you either have to invest in the PCBs now, or wait 10-15 years for MAME emulation.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Wed May 09, 2007 12:44 am

Good thing I have enough shmups on the Saturn/Dreamcast/PS2 to keep me occupied for the next 30 years or so =)

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:05 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
I thought that he had initially said that it might get a PS3 release, which would be nice for PS3 owners, since most (or all?) PS3 games so far seem to be region-free.
He specifically said that the chances of it appearing on a current gen system are almost zero, due to problems selling an arcade shooting game on these systems.

Actually, what he meant was unless you're rich or Japanese, please go back to playing Halo and Madden.
I guess its time to say,

Shmups R.I.P.

Dann · Post by **Dann** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:27 am

can ketsui be played on MAME? or does everyone in the highscore thread have a PCB?

the allett · Post by **the allett** » Wed May 09, 2007 8:09 am

Dann wrote:can ketsui be played on MAME? or does everyone in the highscore thread have a PCB?

Just PCB i'm afraid

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:11 am

Dann wrote:can ketsui be played on MAME? or does everyone in the highscore thread have a PCB?

There's a grand total of zero PGM boards cracked/emulating. Each one has different encryption to break as well. It'll be a while.

eretsua · Post by **eretsua** » Wed May 09, 2007 7:35 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:
Dann wrote:can ketsui be played on MAME? or does everyone in the highscore thread have a PCB?
There's a grand total of zero PGM boards cracked/emulating. Each one has different encryption to break as well. It'll be a while.

...but theoretically it's possible, yes though sadly not very likely.

velocity7 · Post by **velocity7** » Wed May 09, 2007 8:42 pm

You guys forget the Wii.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Wed May 09, 2007 8:53 pm

velocity7 wrote:You guys forget the Wii.

...

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:16 pm

velocity7 wrote:You guys forget the Wii.

So did Cave.

I wonder though, if the Wii could handle the newer games that Cave are putting on the market. I am still holding out hope that the future of XBLA and whatever the fuck Nintendo and Sony are doing will yield some good shooter games.

glitch · Post by **glitch** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:17 pm

velocity7 wrote:You guys forget the Wii.

shmuppers wanna shoot the core, not shake a stick at it...

no actually i'm with you on this.
if we all buy wii Karasu maybe Cave will notice? -_-;;

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:27 pm

velocity7 wrote:You guys forget the Wii.

How easy is the Wii to develop for? This is the only reason that I could see Cave making games for it. Ninty are bastards about third party's. But, if this Ketsui Death Label thing goes ahead, depending on what form it takes, I wouldn't rule out the possibility we might see a Cave home conversion over the net few years.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed May 09, 2007 10:58 pm

First: It's obvious Cave doesn't care about any home platform.

Second: An install base of 3 million people that play Wii Sports is still a bunch of people that play Wii sports. None of the Cave games sold well on the PS2, which had the most varied library in game history.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:24 pm

Gaijiinpunch is right, Cave could care less about the home market. And why should they? Their current business plan is obviously quite profitable for them. They release a PCB in large numbers, all the arcades buy it, they lower the price by 50%+ months later and lots of consumers buy the PCB as well (I'm absolutely sure Cave are aware consumers are buying their PCBs in good numbers once the price drops to a certain level). Then they release a superplay DVD and/or OST and sell about half as many copies as any of their console ports sold. But they actually make more money on them than with the console ports because it's pure profit for them. No licensing fees to Sony or Taito, no extra development costs, etc. Cave is completely autonomous.

Cave is pretty smart. They know their genre is a niche one, and they know the best way to make a profit in this genre. Since they use their own proprietary hardware, it simply isn't economically feasible to spend development costs to port the games to home hardware, especially considering how low of a user base would be interested in buying such ports. They must have learned their lesson from the Mushi and Ibara ports, as I doubt they made much money from either of those (especially Ibara, which had crap sales).

eretsua · Post by **eretsua** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:30 pm

TWE, i fear you're hitting the nail right on it's shinny, bold head.

thought it's good that they make money this way and with that can still exist, of course.

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Thu May 10, 2007 2:28 am

eretsua wrote:TWE, i fear you're hitting the nail right on it's shinny, bold head. thought it's good that they make money this way and with that can still exist, of course.

what good is that if you can't enjoy their games?
Oh well, time to man up and start my pcb collection......

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Thu May 10, 2007 2:31 am

Never_Scurred wrote: what good is that if you can't enjoy their games?

You can if you get a job.

After a few years, most of the bare Cave PCBs drop to the $500 and lower level. Cheaper than a PS3 and much more useful!

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Thu May 10, 2007 3:19 am

TWE wrote:
Never_Scurred wrote: what good is that if you can't enjoy their games?
You can if you stop paying your bills, quit your job, move to japan and become an otaku. After a few years, most of the bare Cave PCBs drop to the $500 and lower level. Too bad you still need to drop another $500 or enroll in trade school to play them-if their still in good enough condition since you're gonna be buying second or third hand. Oh, btw, good luck finding a seller! Brush up on them japanese skills!

Fixed for truth

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu May 10, 2007 3:33 am

Ketsui is the only really hard one to find. Pink Sweets is jut now hitting a year old. Everything before that isn't too expensive. Besides, it's not like you lose the money. Those PCBs hold their value quite well.

velocity7 · Post by **velocity7** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:29 am

DJ Rectal Prolapse wrote:How easy is the Wii to develop for? This is the only reason that I could see Cave making games for it. Ninty are bastards about third party's. But, if this Ketsui Death Label thing goes ahead, depending on what form it takes, I wouldn't rule out the possibility we might see a Cave home conversion over the net few years.

From what I understand, like GaijinPunch said, Cave could care less about home ports. As long as they don't have to do anything nasty about it, they don't really care. We saw Taito release a half-assed port of Mushihime and Ibara, and I don't see ESPgaluda II around the corner.

On the other hand, Mihara does care about making Cave ports (especially how they are made, as evidenced by the PS2 problems).

And the Wii is supposedly easy to develop for, perhaps similar to GameCube. You don't need the Wiimote to play games though (as indicated by Virtual Console and word about SSBB). Of course though, you could always rotate the Wiimote and just play that way, right?

Like GP said, the chances of it appearing on a current-gen system (e.g., PS3 and Xbox 360) are close to nil. Sony and Microsoft don't want a 2D game on their system as far as I can tell, unless it's one of those microtransaction downloads. Wii's got good chances, but that's just me talking.

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:03 am

velocity7 wrote:
DJ Rectal Prolapse wrote:How easy is the Wii to develop for? This is the only reason that I could see Cave making games for it. Ninty are bastards about third party's. But, if this Ketsui Death Label thing goes ahead, depending on what form it takes, I wouldn't rule out the possibility we might see a Cave home conversion over the net few years.
From what I understand, like GaijinPunch said, Cave could care less about home ports. As long as they don't have to do anything nasty about it, they don't really care. We saw Taito release a half-assed port of Mushihime and Ibara, and I don't see ESPgaluda II around the corner.

On the other hand, Mihara does care about making Cave ports (especially how they are made, as evidenced by the PS2 problems).

And the Wii is supposedly easy to develop for, perhaps similar to GameCube. You don't need the Wiimote to play games though (as indicated by Virtual Console and word about SSBB). Of course though, you could always rotate the Wiimote and just play that way, right?

Like GP said, the chances of it appearing on a current-gen system (e.g., PS3 and Xbox 360) are close to nil. Sony and Microsoft don't want a 2D game on their system as far as I can tell, unless it's one of those microtransaction downloads. Wii's got good chances, but that's just me talking.

Hell, Wii is already getting ported to death. It's stronger hardware than PS2? Maybe the combination of that with programming ease could make that work. I wish more devs who couldn't get on the PS2 & Xbox bandwagon could dump their goods on the Wii. May as well since nobody else in the industry seems to know what the fuck to use that console for.

*sigh* maybe it was better if that footage never came out.

What a tease

ReKleSS · Post by **ReKleSS** » Mon May 14, 2007 6:11 am

velocity7 wrote:We saw Taito release a half-assed port of Mushihime and Ibara, and I don't see ESPgaluda II around the corner.

Yet again... those ports were by Cave, not Taito. Taito just did the publishing.

Anyway,

Mihara wrote: I need neither the drug nor the pornography commodity.

But more importantly,

Mihara wrote: 近日中にケツイDSの進捗公開予定。
...
一応、年内に出したいと考えておりますが、私は。

I wouldn't give up hope just yet. The post is here.

Necronom · Post by **Necronom** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:03 am

A Wii version would certainly be a blast for the people who own a JP system but the rest would be screwd. Unfortunately Nintendo is still doing the region code bullshit and last time I checked mod chips still had problems with running games from another region. Don't expect Nintendo US or EU to bring something like this over to its western customers.
Imho, from a fan's point of view it would be best if somebody would finally emulate Ketsui and end this tragedy. Cave themselves clearly doesn't give a shit.
I still hope for a DS version though because it would finally show that there is a demand for (new) arcadestyle stuff on the DS while the right people are getting payed.