IMO, Gradius III and IV both are derivative pieces of junk compared to Gradius II and Gradius Gaiden. III is only loved so much because everyone has rose-tinted memories of the toned-down SNES version.
And the pixel art of the other games looks a million times better than the ugly 3D art of IV.
Why the Gradius IV hate?
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Herr Schatten
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Klatrymadon
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IV's takes most people much longer to nail, mate. I think it's to do with the fact that you can't actually destroy the bubbles as they're splitting up, and that they're usually coming right at you as they do it.The Bubble stage in IV is way easier than the one in III.
You do get used to 'em both, though. People are too intimidated by III and IV...
By the way, do things like this:
Annoy you chaps as much as they do me?Originally found on the Super NES in 1991
I'm not being elitist, you understand - I've nothing against people whose only exposure to Gradius is through the console games. What steams my clams is the ceaselessly poor quality of their written reviews. The writer goes on to say that it's an arcade port in the same paragraph. Do these chaps even proof-read their stuff?
We piss away money on your IGN Insider (most of the time the only luxury it affords me is a little icon next to my username), and you can't do two minutes of Google research to make sure you don't sound like a wittering ol' giffer?
Like I said, I haven't played much of the earlier Gradius installments so this obviously wasn't an issue for me. I completely understand why long time fans of the series would be disappointed/unimpressed/whatever with it.SFKhoa wrote:Why the hate? The time it took from Gradius 3 to Gradius 4 and all they can give us is 'Armor Piercing' and 'Vertical Mine'.
I just bought the Gradius Collection for the PSP yesterday. It's got Gradius 1,2,3,4 and Gradius Gaiden It's been A WHILE since i last played these
Though I wish I got Salamander as well
It's been A WHILE since i last played these Though I wish I got Salamander as well
Online PvP Shmup - Mix Colors and Sound
~ www.Harmotion.com ~
~ www.Harmotion.com ~
PFG 9000, its cheating to pick the coolest and probably best looking stage from Gradius IV. 
Actually weren't these games always on the ugly side? Supposedly II looked great (I wouldn't know) but III is drab and the first game makes 1942 look interesting! Gaiden and V are of course gorgeous but they seem so, different, from the other games in a lot of ways, like a catagory of thier own. Salamander 2 is also purty.
Anyway, I dislike IV. I really like the music, for some reason, I mean, its different and thats something. But graphically its mostly boring (minus the second and fourth stages) and heck the STAGES themselves are boring. Stage four is awesome, I mean, who expects the volcanoes to go insane and the stage to start breaking apart! - but its probably the only really creative moment in the game. Also, hard and sometimes quite cheap - and the weapon selections are total shite.
Actually weren't these games always on the ugly side? Supposedly II looked great (I wouldn't know) but III is drab and the first game makes 1942 look interesting! Gaiden and V are of course gorgeous but they seem so, different, from the other games in a lot of ways, like a catagory of thier own. Salamander 2 is also purty.
Anyway, I dislike IV. I really like the music, for some reason, I mean, its different and thats something. But graphically its mostly boring (minus the second and fourth stages) and heck the STAGES themselves are boring. Stage four is awesome, I mean, who expects the volcanoes to go insane and the stage to start breaking apart! - but its probably the only really creative moment in the game. Also, hard and sometimes quite cheap - and the weapon selections are total shite.
!
On the subject of handhelds, I tried the Gradius pack on the PSP in a shop and found the pad and mini stick to be useless.
The handheld PC Engine GT on the other hand, is almost workable for shooters (in a limited way). A couple of years ago I set myself the task of 1CCing Salamander and Truxton/Tatsujin on the PC Engine GT. I managed a loop of both, but thats as far as it goes. You need a full sized setup to play them properly.
The handheld PC Engine GT on the other hand, is almost workable for shooters (in a limited way). A couple of years ago I set myself the task of 1CCing Salamander and Truxton/Tatsujin on the PC Engine GT. I managed a loop of both, but thats as far as it goes. You need a full sized setup to play them properly.
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reversalmushroom
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Re: Why the Gradius IV hate?
I believe I can answer that question. Gradius 4 has 2 huge, crippling problems:
1. Every level in this game is from a previous game. Of course, we have our mainstays like the 1st Gradius stage, Easter Island, biological, and mechanical stages, but the 1st stage is just a redo of Gradius 2's 1st stage with a different aesthetic, we get a plant stage even though the immediate last game had a plant stage, the 3rd stage is just a combination of Gradius 2&3's crystal&bubble stages, and Gradius 3 arcade also had a lava stage. Having the levels that always come back becomes a liability when EVERY stage has been brought back. Gradius 4 doesn't have an original idea in its head. Gradius 1, being the 1st game, had all original ideas, and while 2&3 brought some of those stages back, they also had a bunch of new, awesome ones. That makes them memorable. Almost nothing in this game is unique to this game or memorable, so it has no identity of its own and doesn't stick out. It also adds very little new to the gameplay. It's by far the most by-the-numbers, standard game in the series. Almost nothing in this game has ever been brought back in later games unlike 1-3 because there is almost nothing to bring back. They even said in an interview for Gradius 5 that they handed that off to 3rd parties because they felt the series was getting stale, and that is very apparent here. I heard that Gradius 3 was originally supposed to be the final game, which means this game was obligatory and not a passion project and decided by Konami for money and not the developers because they had so many ideas, and they just loved this game so much. I saw someone in this thread say they hadn't played the previous games, so it was all new to them, but for someone who has, you feel like you're just doing the same thing again. So why bother? Why put these repeated ideas in this game on par with the last games and love Gradius 4 just as much if not more? What is there even unique in it to love?
2. The music sucks. The 1st 3 games had far better soundtracks. Those tried to be catchy, memorable video game music. This decides to forgo that for atmosphere, and that was entirely the wrong decision. Only 2 of the songs are actually good (the 1st 2 level themes, because they try to be memorable); the rest are so meandering and never go anywhere. It's boring. The 1st 3 games had energetic, adventurous soundtracks, not slow-paced nothing. Also, some of the time, the instruments actually sound bad and actively make the song sound worse. An epic, original soundtrack like 2&3 would've really elevated this game in peoples' opinion and given it its own identity. Since every stage in this game is ripped off from a previous game, just compare every level theme (after the 1st 2) with its equivalent. Compare Challenger 1985 to Cronos and Hades to Fire Scramble. Compare Crystal World to Oceanus. Compare Prometheus&Athena to Final Attack, Into Hostile Ship, and Mechanical Base. Feiton&Apollon to Shooting Star, A Way Out Of The Difficulty, and Departure For Space. And Gradius Gaiden's Sky 1. Gradius 2 has a vastly better ending. There is no contest. I read a review of a compilation album of the 1st 4 games, and they said Gradius 4 was definitely the low point, and I completely agree. There are almost no Gradius 4 remixes to speak of from Konami or fans, and every song in the 1st 3 games has more remixes than all of Gradius 4 put together. Number of remixes is the ultimate indicator. What do the bubble, moai, and cell stages sound like? You don't know!
Gradius 3 also didn't do nearly as much to innovate as Gradius 2, but it excels in these 2 important areas: having lots of new level types and memorable, original songs, and that's why fans and Konami feel it has a place among Gradius 1&2.
Other minor gripes:
1. They zoomed out the camera. Now, this might seem like a good idea because you can see more world, but it will occasionally cause you to die. When you have the gun, you can't shoot again until your bullets go off the side of the screen. But because the screen is longer, that takes longer to happen. So just holding down the fire button will every so often get you killed because you fire, didn't hit anything, put yourself right in front of an enemy while holding down the fire button, but it crashes into you because your bullet is still on the screen. And I just know someone's gonna say "Well, that adds challenge 'cause you gotta line up your shots. It's strategy because you can't just fire willy-nilly." No. There is a different between challenge and inconvenience. That just bogs down the gameplay because now I have to make sure to be consciously aware of something I didn't have to think about. Something that used to work perfectly without any thought no longer does. It's annoying to have to make sure every individual enemy I fire at is hit or the 1st of my 2 bullets has gone off the screen for every enemy I want to move in front of.
2. I hate how the bubbles in this game's 3rd stage work. As someone else said, they can't be destroyed as they're breaking up unlike their Gradius 3 equivalents and are often flying at you while they're splitting up. I have died so many times in this level because of this. Again, it's not challenge so much as it is inconvenience. Challenge is asking of your ability. This isn't so much asking of your ability so much as hampering it.
3. Why is the 6th boss so much harder than every boss after? What is difficulty progression?
4. The weapon variety is such a downgrade from Gradius 3. It bothers me that it never got that good again.
5. The 1st stage is an inferior version of Gradius 2's 1st stage. That had floating space stations that ships came out of, and then a horizontal section where you were dodging solar flares; this has just that 1st section with just the stars that spawn dragons. It's just a stripped down ripoff. Where was all the ambition to come up with all these different ideas? It's liquid; they could form it into so many shapes and do so many things with it, but they literally just formed it into circles and 1 enemy from a previous game. That's this game's problem: it has no ambition. No drive to top everything that came before. I know the developers said they hit a snag with trying to get that effect onto complex polygons, but if they could get it onto bosses and enemies, they coulda got it onto things like cubes, pyramids, dodecahedrons, etc. so there'd be more level variety, and they coulda made other types of enemies with that many polygons or less. I guarantee you that if this concept had been in the 1st 4 games, they would've done a lot more things with it.
6. Armor piercing laser sucks. I know that's like "no, duh" because everyone says that, but what does it even do? I tried googling it, and I still can't find an answer. When I play the game, it doesn't go through anything the normal laser can't, and "armor piercing" tells me nothing, and Google just says "it goes through multiple enemies. But the normal laser already does that. What does this do that that doesn't (besides suck)?
I think there might've been a couple other things, but I can't remember.
1. Every level in this game is from a previous game. Of course, we have our mainstays like the 1st Gradius stage, Easter Island, biological, and mechanical stages, but the 1st stage is just a redo of Gradius 2's 1st stage with a different aesthetic, we get a plant stage even though the immediate last game had a plant stage, the 3rd stage is just a combination of Gradius 2&3's crystal&bubble stages, and Gradius 3 arcade also had a lava stage. Having the levels that always come back becomes a liability when EVERY stage has been brought back. Gradius 4 doesn't have an original idea in its head. Gradius 1, being the 1st game, had all original ideas, and while 2&3 brought some of those stages back, they also had a bunch of new, awesome ones. That makes them memorable. Almost nothing in this game is unique to this game or memorable, so it has no identity of its own and doesn't stick out. It also adds very little new to the gameplay. It's by far the most by-the-numbers, standard game in the series. Almost nothing in this game has ever been brought back in later games unlike 1-3 because there is almost nothing to bring back. They even said in an interview for Gradius 5 that they handed that off to 3rd parties because they felt the series was getting stale, and that is very apparent here. I heard that Gradius 3 was originally supposed to be the final game, which means this game was obligatory and not a passion project and decided by Konami for money and not the developers because they had so many ideas, and they just loved this game so much. I saw someone in this thread say they hadn't played the previous games, so it was all new to them, but for someone who has, you feel like you're just doing the same thing again. So why bother? Why put these repeated ideas in this game on par with the last games and love Gradius 4 just as much if not more? What is there even unique in it to love?
2. The music sucks. The 1st 3 games had far better soundtracks. Those tried to be catchy, memorable video game music. This decides to forgo that for atmosphere, and that was entirely the wrong decision. Only 2 of the songs are actually good (the 1st 2 level themes, because they try to be memorable); the rest are so meandering and never go anywhere. It's boring. The 1st 3 games had energetic, adventurous soundtracks, not slow-paced nothing. Also, some of the time, the instruments actually sound bad and actively make the song sound worse. An epic, original soundtrack like 2&3 would've really elevated this game in peoples' opinion and given it its own identity. Since every stage in this game is ripped off from a previous game, just compare every level theme (after the 1st 2) with its equivalent. Compare Challenger 1985 to Cronos and Hades to Fire Scramble. Compare Crystal World to Oceanus. Compare Prometheus&Athena to Final Attack, Into Hostile Ship, and Mechanical Base. Feiton&Apollon to Shooting Star, A Way Out Of The Difficulty, and Departure For Space. And Gradius Gaiden's Sky 1. Gradius 2 has a vastly better ending. There is no contest. I read a review of a compilation album of the 1st 4 games, and they said Gradius 4 was definitely the low point, and I completely agree. There are almost no Gradius 4 remixes to speak of from Konami or fans, and every song in the 1st 3 games has more remixes than all of Gradius 4 put together. Number of remixes is the ultimate indicator. What do the bubble, moai, and cell stages sound like? You don't know!
Gradius 3 also didn't do nearly as much to innovate as Gradius 2, but it excels in these 2 important areas: having lots of new level types and memorable, original songs, and that's why fans and Konami feel it has a place among Gradius 1&2.
Other minor gripes:
1. They zoomed out the camera. Now, this might seem like a good idea because you can see more world, but it will occasionally cause you to die. When you have the gun, you can't shoot again until your bullets go off the side of the screen. But because the screen is longer, that takes longer to happen. So just holding down the fire button will every so often get you killed because you fire, didn't hit anything, put yourself right in front of an enemy while holding down the fire button, but it crashes into you because your bullet is still on the screen. And I just know someone's gonna say "Well, that adds challenge 'cause you gotta line up your shots. It's strategy because you can't just fire willy-nilly." No. There is a different between challenge and inconvenience. That just bogs down the gameplay because now I have to make sure to be consciously aware of something I didn't have to think about. Something that used to work perfectly without any thought no longer does. It's annoying to have to make sure every individual enemy I fire at is hit or the 1st of my 2 bullets has gone off the screen for every enemy I want to move in front of.
2. I hate how the bubbles in this game's 3rd stage work. As someone else said, they can't be destroyed as they're breaking up unlike their Gradius 3 equivalents and are often flying at you while they're splitting up. I have died so many times in this level because of this. Again, it's not challenge so much as it is inconvenience. Challenge is asking of your ability. This isn't so much asking of your ability so much as hampering it.
3. Why is the 6th boss so much harder than every boss after? What is difficulty progression?
4. The weapon variety is such a downgrade from Gradius 3. It bothers me that it never got that good again.
5. The 1st stage is an inferior version of Gradius 2's 1st stage. That had floating space stations that ships came out of, and then a horizontal section where you were dodging solar flares; this has just that 1st section with just the stars that spawn dragons. It's just a stripped down ripoff. Where was all the ambition to come up with all these different ideas? It's liquid; they could form it into so many shapes and do so many things with it, but they literally just formed it into circles and 1 enemy from a previous game. That's this game's problem: it has no ambition. No drive to top everything that came before. I know the developers said they hit a snag with trying to get that effect onto complex polygons, but if they could get it onto bosses and enemies, they coulda got it onto things like cubes, pyramids, dodecahedrons, etc. so there'd be more level variety, and they coulda made other types of enemies with that many polygons or less. I guarantee you that if this concept had been in the 1st 4 games, they would've done a lot more things with it.
6. Armor piercing laser sucks. I know that's like "no, duh" because everyone says that, but what does it even do? I tried googling it, and I still can't find an answer. When I play the game, it doesn't go through anything the normal laser can't, and "armor piercing" tells me nothing, and Google just says "it goes through multiple enemies. But the normal laser already does that. What does this do that that doesn't (besides suck)?
I think there might've been a couple other things, but I can't remember.