Are these games shmups ?

[rtw]

KikiKaiKai : http://www.mameworld.net/maws/romset/kikikai

Magical Crystals: http://www.mameworld.net/maws/romset/mgcrystl

In both games you walk around shooting at enemies much like Guwange. There is an end of level boss which has to be defeated.

So what is the verdict, are these shmups ?

rtw

[D]

A shmup has fixed scrolling.
Commando and mercs are not shmups.
Gun Smoke is a shmup
So it depends if these games have fixed scrolling, if so they are welcomed by the shmups community, if they do not have fixed scrolling we frown upon them .

[junkeR]

A shmup has fixed scrolling.
Commando and mercs are not shmups.
Gun Smoke is a shmup
So it depends if these games have fixed scrolling, if so they are welcomed by the shmups community, if they do not have fixed scrolling we frown upon them .

What about the Fantasy Zone Series? They don't really have fixed scrolling, yet are considered a shmup.

[Kiken]

A shmup has fixed scrolling.
Commando and mercs are not shmups.
Gun Smoke is a shmup
So it depends if these games have fixed scrolling, if so they are welcomed by the shmups community, if they do not have fixed scrolling we frown upon them .

Kaitei Daisensou/In The Hunt would like to have a word with you.

[GaijinPunch]

Never played Magic Crystals. Kikikaikai is indeed a "shooting game". Whether it's a shmup or not is another story. It's kind of a dipshit word anyway.

[Atamosk]

Contra
Contra: hard corps
Contra: alien wars
Contra: shattered soldier

Certainly these great games are not frowned upon?

[Ceph]

Contra
Contra: hard corps
Contra: alien wars
Contra: shattered soldier

Certainly these great games are not frowned upon?

Not at all. However, they are run and gun games, possibly jump and runs or platformers, but not shoot em ups.

[GaijinPunch]

Contra JP. First line: An action shooting game series by Konami. Perhaps Japanese lump too much stuff into one genre. Perhaps we space stuff out too much.

[Kiken]

Contra JP. First line: An action shooting game series by Konami. Perhaps Japanese lump too much stuff into one genre. Perhaps we space stuff out too much.

"Shooting" is such a vague term.

[GaijinPunch]

"Shooting" is such a vague term.

I don't make the rules.

EDIT: But if you want to get technical, there are subdivisions which I think work much better:
Fixed screen shooting
vertical scroll shooting
horizontal scroll shooting
3D shooting
etc., etc.

[shinsage]

Eh, I don't consider In the Hunt a shmup.
Just a run 'n gunner without legs.

[CIT]

For me "Shooter" is a general term, that includes everything from Ikaruga, to Bangaioh to Gears of War and Afterburner.

Then you can take it from there and use a more specific term, like "horizontal scrolling shooter", "run n gun", "FPS", "3D Shooter", "tube shooter", "single screen shooter", etc, etc.

And let's face it, "shmups" is a term for shmucks.

[professor ganson]

And let's face it, "shmups" is a term for shmucks.

Good point. But I'm having a hard time figuring out whether certain people are shmucks. Is Dick Cheney a shmuck? (He's clearly an asshole.) And what about people who give up their personal information in response to scamming emails? Or is that a chump? And what's the difference between a shmuck and chump anyway?

[cigsthecat]

And what's the difference between a shmuck and chump anyway?

A schmup!

[shinsage]

I feel embarrassed when I say the word shmup in real life.
That's why I just call them shooters now.

[jp]

I feel embarrassed whenever people call "shmups" "shumps" and I get irritated.

Every shooter fan I've met in the really-real world says "shumps".

[rtw]

The reason I thought that these games would fit under the shmup label is that the protaganist is seen top down. However the playing field does not scroll automatically. In Magical Crystals there is a timer and in Kiki Kai Kai skeletons pop up from the ground if you use too much time.

rtw

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Eh, I don't consider In the Hunt a shmup.
Just a run 'n gunner without legs.

I'd have to say that "In The Hunt" is a shmup -- sure I've played the USA Bios region version of the PCB at the arcades back in the early 1990's. And when I finally found a used PSX copy of "In the Hunt" at my local Gamestop for a mere three bucks, I was overjoyed!

Just by playing the first 12 "intial" credits & it was mine to keep forever + the fact that it's one of the more harder-to-find PSX game titles due to it's limited production run from the likes of Kokopeli Studios, 3rd-party PSX game publisher & a subsidairy of THQ Inc. (Toy Headquarters Incorporated). ^_~

Sure, the overall factor that propels the player to try to beat each stage in the shortest time possible is the simple but effective "countdown timer" device method that Irem/Nazca employs. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[JBC]

I still love games like that though - especially Pocky and Rocky. It almost feels like a traditional shmup. ^___^

[EatenByGrues]

Don't forget the first two Thunder Force games were also free-scrolling (or at least multi-directional).

[Pixel_Outlaw]

Well I think flying is a key element. Of course shmups can go a little outside the genre sometimes, however there are games that just have too many strikes agianst them to be called shmups.

[ubersaurus]

Asteroids has no scrolling, but it is quite clearly a shooter.

Commando certainly seems shooter enough to me

[shoe-sama]

I'd say these walking games that may be similar to shmups would be action rpgs. Shmups nowadays tend to be characterized by their dodging element, and there are distinct gameplay differences between shmups and these things (mostly due to character speed being bleh in action rpgs and compensation for that present in the bullet patterns).

[GaijinPunch]

- especially Pocky and Rocky.

Now that, is a title that really makes my asshole pucker.

[JBC]

Now that, is a title that really makes my asshole pucker.

Gross

[sfried]

What about games like GunRoar and Geometry Wars? The scrolling is completely arbitrary.

[Pirate1019]

- especially Pocky and Rocky.

Now that, is a title that really makes my asshole pucker.

That, good sir, I agree with.

[system11]

I'll throw this one out here - it's been discussed a little on the mod forum.

I had an idea to form a small council of Shmup Procaimers (or somesuch other name). Something like a Klingon court room if you've seen that film.

Anyway, the idea was that where things are borderline and lead to continued disagreement, a game can be referred to this group who will decide whether it's on topic or not. Their word would be final. Games which have had to be decided upon either way, would be in a sticky list somewhere, probably attached to the rules one as to avoid cluttering up the board.

These people would be uneven in number, and not necessarily be mods (and indeed being a member of this group infers no moderation powers), just people who have reasonably proved themselves to have a good feel for what fits and what doesn't. No definition can ever work, we've seen this year on year.

While the list would not apply to the current top 25 voting, it would apply to the next one, and it would directly affect whether or not threads get moderated into off-topic or shmups chat. I had a few people in mind for this role if they were interested.

So - does anyone think this is a particularly good or a particularly terrible idea? Overkill perhaps? Would it bring any value to you, the community?

[rtw]

I'll throw this one out here - it's been discussed a little on the mod forum.

I had an idea to form a small council of Shmup Procaimers (or somesuch other name). Something like a Klingon court room if you've seen that film.

Anyway, the idea was that where things are borderline and lead to continued disagreement, a game can be referred to this group who will decide whether it's on topic or not. Their word would be final. Games which have had to be decided upon either way, would be in a sticky list somewhere, probably attached to the rules one as to avoid cluttering up the board.

I think it's a good idea, let's define what we mean by shmups

rtw

[Acid King]

As long as the decisions were made using science! then I have no problem with it.