Guwange contest @ Arcade Extreme

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:50 am

Ok I am in too.

I probably won't have so much time as I am running a little German tournament in April as well, but I will surely contribute new scores for each checkpoint. I dunno which tier I am, in the STGT I finished with a score of 6'xxx'xxx.

Neverland · Post by **Neverland** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:06 am

Please sign up in a topic on aEx and Welcome in adventure

do you Want insert in top o low tier list?

LUNardei · Post by **LUNardei** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:53 am

Welcome

Here's another tier problem. But this time I suggest low tiers: the score is lower than the freddie's one and you're not in a top level team. But if you want to change feel free to ask

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:33 am

Maybe in wolf99 you change Defaul Game options for ALL games but not for Guwange? Click right mouse on Guwange and enter to Guwange Options.
I never had problems with wolf99, it excellent version. You can dowload it from there too:
http://wolfmame.marpirc.net/

Neverland · Post by **Neverland** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:15 am

my version come 99% from marpic but for honest i dont remember
thanks for segnalition DES

powerfuran · Post by **powerfuran** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:07 pm

Use the mame linked above whitout any setting-change, except for TATE and autofire settings. Check if auto-frameskip is turned ON. I've experienced some problems with inp recorded with non-default frame skip!

Come on, enjoy the tournament guys!

Noobs allowed!!!! I'm a noob too!!! True!

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:56 pm

DON'T set frameskip to AUTO. Best if will be set to 0. You can have problems with playing back inps with autoframeskip.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:18 pm

Right, I downloaded destructors link for wolf99 and it works fine. I just checked the play-in-a-window box and then fired it up and it's fine.

I haven't bothered trying yoko full screen yet though, I prefer windowed mode if I'm listening to music at the same time (guwange has a good soundtrack, but it gets repetitive after a while).

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:41 pm

You can disable sound in Guwange options and play in full screen while you can hear music from Winamp for example.
But remember that you must say to us about using no sound in your recordings for properly playback.

CHI · Post by **CHI** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:27 pm

cheers for the heaps of help guys.....

ive tried other mames and changing settings, still have this minor problem, but not to worry, i will post my scores.....

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:33 pm

Downloaded the emu and rom from your first post and seemed to work fine for me.

LUNardei wrote:Welcome
Here's another tier problem. But this time I suggest low tiers: the score is lower than the freddie's one and you're not in a top level team. But if you want to change feel free to ask

No, no, I am comfortable with low tier as I wouldn't put myself into the top tier. I guess I am probably something like middle Tier, so I wasn't sure where you draw the line but low tier makes probably more sense.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:57 pm

CHI wrote:ok ive downloaded it.....
but theres a problem!
is there a chance i dont need to tate/put my laptop on its side cos im playing this on my laptop?
ive been fiddling with the display settings but its either on its left or on its right..... please help.....

What knows "tate"? Is your screen rotated or what? If yes, this can be problem with your graphics card/drivers for graphics card. Do you have winXP?

powerfuran · Post by **powerfuran** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:24 pm

destructor wrote:DON'T set frameskip to AUTO. Best if will be set to 0. You can have problems with playing back inps with autoframeskip.

I can't get it. You mean it's better to set frameskip=0? I thought ileaving everything on default was the best choice. Anyway it's a good suggestion. Maybe it must be put in the official rule. But I had problems playbacking inp with frameskipping set to a value different than auto. Need to check.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:13 pm

You don't must check. I say that it is true. If you don't believe go to MARP forum.

When you use autoframeskip, game speed can be different sometimes - will jump from one value to next (because hard drive read or something) and then when you will try to playback it will be wrong.
When frameskip is set to one const value will not be problem with it.

Why frameskip 0 is the best? Because in inp file are recorded input signals for every frame. If it will be set, signals will recorded for ever second frame ... for framsekip 11 every 10 frame. For autoframeskip it can be randomly, randomly knows very bad.

In later wolfmame versions it's repaired and default value is 0. Auto value is old settings from regular/plus MAME version.

Today I recorded and I playbacked 4 inps using wolf99 and frameskip 0. No problems. Remember say us what frameskip settings you use when you record game.

This problem isn't for every game, but better use frameskip 0 (or other const value) always.

maco · Post by **maco** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:20 pm

I might enter, but it depends if I can get a new pc before the start of the competition.
Also I have no experience with the game and won’t have until I get the new pc, though I’ll still enter the Top Tier (be better if there were a middle tier though.).

powerfuran · Post by **powerfuran** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:24 pm

destructor wrote:You don't must check. I say that it is true. If you don't believe go to MARP forum.

When you use autoframeskip, game speed can be different sometimes - will jump from one value to next (because hard drive read or something) and then when you will try to playback it will be wrong.
When frameskip is set to one const value will not be problem with it.

Why frameskip 0 is the best? Because in inp file are recorded input signals for every frame. If it will be set, signals will recorded for ever second frame ... for framsekip 11 every 10 frame. For autoframeskip it can be randomly, randomly knows very bad.

In later wolfmame verions it's repaired and default value is 0. Auto value is old settings from regular/plus MAME version.

Today I recorded and I playbackde 4 inps using wolf99 and frameskip 0. No problems. Remember say us what frameskip settings you use when you record game.

It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that I thought it was different. I Thought that setting a specific value for frameskipping would result in a somewhat "forced" slowdown while playing, because the game is forced to draw every frame. Autoframeskip assure a constant game speed, IMO, But I see that these are not very important matters, for playback, but I still think they're important while PLAYING, as to avoid slowdown advantages. BTW, since we need inp to be playable by everyone, to me it's fine to set frameskip=0.

How about setting it as a rule?

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:32 pm

One thing more. For MAME replays must be minimum average recorded speed. For MARP tournaments it's 95%.
Why? Because some players have weak PC and some games using FS (frameskip) 0 works very slow.

If someone have weak PC can:
1. disable sound
2. use higher frameskip
3. there are more options

Recorded minimum average speed must be add in rules. I think 95% is good. You can check average speed when you playback your inp using commandline wolf99 version or second method - use wlfview.exe file available in archive with wolf99.

EDIT
You can press F11 during game and you will see your current game speed.

EDIT1
For MAME replays best if wlf file (created with inp file in inp directory) will be required for send too (in one archive: guwange.inp and guwange.wlf).

powerfuran · Post by **powerfuran** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:41 pm

destructor wrote:One thing more. For MAME replays must be minimum average recorded speed. For MARP tournaments it's 95%.
Why? Because some players have weak PC and some games using FS (frameskip) 0 works very slow.

If someone have weak PC can:
1. disable sound
2. use higher frameskip
3. there are more options

Recorded minimum average speed must be add in rules. I think 95% is good. You can check average speed when you playback your inp using commandline wolf99 version or second method - use wlfview.exe file available in archive with wolf99.

EDIT
You can press F11 during game and you will see your current game speed.

I totally agree with you.

Let's wait for some other opinion and then the rule can be made official.

LUNardei · Post by **LUNardei** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:18 pm

I'm going to updated the rules with what Destructor said!
Maco: great, I'll add you in a second. If you don't get the new pc in time, feel free to give up the competition, but at the moment I consider you in

CHI · Post by **CHI** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:41 pm

destructor wrote: What knows "tate"? Is your screen rotated or what? If yes, this can be problem with your graphics card/drivers for graphics card. Do you have winXP?

i dont know how to say this but.....
the gurange game is tated, no matter what i do its either on its left or on its right!
no my laptop is not rotated.
yes i do have windows xp.

dont worry too much about it, ill sort something out.....

Neverland · Post by **Neverland** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:45 pm

rotate a laptop and under this put a pillow

i make this hundred times and all ok

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:48 pm

Delete all cfg and ini files in main wolf99 directory and in Ini and Cfg directories. Delete all files from Nvram directory (if it exist).

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:43 pm

CHI wrote: i dont know how to say this but.....
the gurange game is tated, no matter what i do its either on its left or on its right!
no my laptop is not rotated.
yes i do have windows xp.

dont worry too much about it, ill sort something out.....

I remember a friend had the same problem with the rotation settings not working at all. I think we finally could get these option to work with enabling/disabling direct 3d or maybe direct draw. Dunno exactly, but I am pretty sure it was one of those graphics settings.

I think it could be solved by enabling direct 3D.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:49 pm

I really think edge should be top tier Lun, if we have players completely new to the game and in some cases new to shooters - the lower tier should maybe just be for them. Edge is as good a player as most round here and will break 10 million in 2 months of play, or at the very least his current score will challenge for first place in the low tier.

Ideally, we should have a mid tier, but sadly there isn't enough players to warrant that right now

EDIT: Also, @CHI - Can you get it working in a window yet? If you can, it's maybe not worth muddling about for ages trying to get the full screen version.

LUNardei · Post by **LUNardei** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:01 am

Yes, net time I'll arrange a contest (well, not that soon I think

) I'd like to have 3 leagues, with 3 prizes, with the best one accessible to everyone, of course.
But anyway, about Edge I still think he's ok for Low Tiers, for the abovementioned reasons. But given your opinion, I definitely let the decision to Edge himself!

Anyway, this kind of things are difficult. We should have a shmups.com official ranking or something, lol.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:18 am

LUNardei wrote: Anyway, this kind of things are difficult. We should have a shmups.com official ranking or something, lol.

I know what you're saying, if you say "top tier" people might think you're arrogant or punching above your weight - and if you say "lower tier" people will think you're going for the easy ride or you're just being modest.

It's the same for you guys who have to decide the league a player goes into, you might offend someone by saying lower, or you put them into the lions den with top

Its a no win situation

LUNardei · Post by **LUNardei** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:23 am

freddiebamboo wrote: I know what you're saying, if you say "top tier" people think you're arrogant or punching above your weight - and if you say "lower tier" people will think you're going for the easy ride or you're just being modest.

It's the same for you...

You totally got the point!

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:31 am

I agree that in some cases it is pretty difficult where to draw the line between top and low tier. I couldn't decide which tier I am in, since I don't know how experienced some low/upper tier players are. So, I am going to trust in LUNs judgment, as he has entered most players and had a vague decription what everyone was thinking about his skill.

But maybe you should make jumping tiers possible after the first checkpoint? If someone feels out of his tier he could simply move up or down then. As you can't accurately decide which tier everyone is in advance. You could then use the checkpoint to change the tier formations. If you like that idea, you could put that into the rules as well.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:16 am

I think every player should can to say: I want to play in Top Tier or I want to plan in Low Tier if LUN place him in wrong tier.

Two tiers are enough in my opinion.

PS. I want to play in Top Tier otherwise

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:54 pm

I'm in as well !