Read these books or go to hell.

Minzoku · Post by **Minzoku** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:06 pm

shinsage wrote:Any Vonnegut fans?
I've only read Slaughterhouse-Five but to be honest it wasn't that great. I expected so much more after hearing everyone go on about him.

I've read all but Mother Night of his. It's mostly absurdist commentary on the world. I think The Sirens of Titan was better, but if you didn't like Slaughterhouse-Five, you might not like that one, either.

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:54 pm

freddiebamboo wrote: I am Legend - Richard Matheson (@Edge - Good vampire story if you

thanks for the tip. Just checked it on google and it seems the German translation is pretty rare, well might as well pick it up in English. But I am currently busy with studies, so I won't be able to read anything for my pleasure so soon. But I'll try to keep that title in mind.

About 1984:
I found the general pressure through that degree of control by the government very interesting. Living in a society like this would be a true nightmare, actually there would be nothing left to make the lifetime worth anything. I didn't know there's a movie from 1984. Or do you mean the movie Equilibrium?

ktownhero · Post by **ktownhero** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:38 pm

There is a movie 1984. It was changed to have a "happy" ending though. I've read that there was government influence in changing the story for the silverscreen so that it ends on a happy note. I'm not sure if that's ever been proven.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:52 pm

Popbot TPB, get it.

Last Guardian · Post by **Last Guardian** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:22 am

shinsage wrote:War and Peace sucked. Way too many characters, for one thing. I always hear people who read it say 'Yeah, it was all right..epic' and you can tell they were bored to hell with it. I consider it the Great Expectations of Russianry.

Hehe, introducing over 500 characters in a single book is a bit much, giving them specific character traits didn't help much in the end. I gave up.

Like in the previous book thread I'd like to pimp Boelgakov's Master and Margherita though, absolutely weird and brilliant, especially the bits where Judea confronts Pontius Pilatus, it's almost like he was there.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:23 am

This thread must LIVE:

I was re-exploring some of my love for pulp and recognized that the best, most completely fucked-up, totally-gonzo-out-of-its-fucking-gourd (do I hear a 'bat fuck insane'?) book I've ever read, period, is Edgar Rice Burroughs' Beasts of Tarzan.

Now the truth is that most of burroughs books are completely insane in general (actually the first couple Tarzan books barely hint at how really nuts burroughs was, you get a better picture reading his 'mars' books.) But 'Beasts' is somehow even better than John Carter beating up everyone on Mars with his FISTS! A revenge story, Tarzan enlists the aid of his wild beasts (too viscious and ruthless to be called gorrillas or chimpanzees) and huge fucking wild cats to chase down and eat the people who stole his son and marooned him on an island.

This sort of nonesense--barely enough plot for a video game like Final Fight--somehow sustains a full length novel that reads more something someone might have transcribed from sweat-dream rather than actually compose properly. Seriously makes Lovecraft and Howard seem well entrenched in the 'respectable' side.

Yeah, no one writes shit like this anymore...

Last Guardian · Post by **Last Guardian** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:58 am

CMoon wrote:This thread must LIVE:

I was re-exploring some of my love for pulp and recognized that the best, most completely fucked-up, totally-gonzo-out-of-its-fucking-gourd (do I hear a 'bat fuck insane'?) book I've ever read, period, is Edgar Rice Burroughs' Beasts of Tarzan.

Will definately look into this. I've read too few good 'pulp' but remember totally loving C. Buchowski's insane ramblings when a friend lend me one of his books once. Actually forgot his name until this post of yours. Thanks for that.

Yeah, no one writes shit like this anymore...

It's not a very popular style these days apperantly.......

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:59 am

CMoon wrote:This thread must LIVE:

I was re-exploring some of my love for pulp and recognized that the best, most completely fucked-up, totally-gonzo-out-of-its-fucking-gourd (do I hear a 'bat fuck insane'?) book I've ever read, period, is Edgar Rice Burroughs' Beasts of Tarzan.

Five words: Tits out Teenage Terror Totty

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:38 pm

It's not a very popular style these days apperantly.......

The problem with a lot of our favourite pulp writers, like Burroughs, Lovecraft and Howard, is that there's a lot of inherent racism in their works that the modern reader has to try to stomach or ignore. Many can't, and I don't blame 'em...

Still, Tarzan of the Apes is a fantastic romp, and is well recommended.

Edit: Oops, Beasts of Tarzan! Tarzan of the Apes is great, though.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:44 am

I think the racist thing can for the most part be forgiven--they were in general falling in line with current thinking (and it is worth noting that in Mountains of Madness Lovecraft essentially retracts/apologizes for his racist ramblings--though you must read between the lines a bit.) These guys weren't hate mongering, cross burning, violent men. For the most part, they just wrote things meant to capture the imagination of their readers who by in large we would call racist by today's standards, but if they lived today would probably carry none of this stupid baggage with them. Write it off as a sign of the times--I hope people from the future are so forgiving of us!

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:47 am

Oh aye, definitely. Lovecraft's views in particular were almost entirely a product of his fairly sheltered childhood in 19th-century Providence, and I've always happily disregarded them as such.

There are a few crackpots who actually buy into their views wholesale, but I don't think we have to worry about those chaps too much...

Style-0 · Post by **Style-0** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:41 pm

SF talk,

SpooN wrote:Everyone needs to read Stanislaw Lem.

That's right! The perfect vacuum and the futurological congress...

ktownhero wrote:I 've read a ton of books, I could recommend a lot. I was a philosophy major in college.

...hm, and what has this to do with reading

,I get the feeling that you use it to show that you read a lot !?

Arvandor wrote:The Dune books by Frank Herbert

Arvandor wrote:Any Heinlein or Asimov

szycag wrote:Foundation/Empire/2nd Found. - Asimov

yes yes, especially the first Dune , Asimovs foundation's books (the robot books are also great), and Heinlein is just awesome.

CMoon wrote:Re: Lem. Yes, I've read Solaris. That is the problem, isn't it. I DO like sci-fi, but find most of it is terrible. I see myself leaning toward the 'hard' sci fi, with a taste for Arthur C. Clark (Rendevous with rama/childhood's end).

You should read Robert L. Forward, thar's hard and his book "Dragon's egg" is brilliant. I wouldn't call Clark a hard SF writer, but his good, no question about that!

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:54 pm

szycag wrote:I've been reading

Our Band Could Be your Life - Azerrad
Foundation/Empire/2nd Found. - Asimov

I ordered a Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking cuz I've never read the whole thing.

Word, I LOVE Asimov! Amazing science fiction!

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:11 am

Excellent Reads

White Guilt by Shelby Steele

Dopefiend and White Man's Justice, Black Man's Burden by Donald Goines

48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene

Worst Case Scenario and Worst Case Scenario Extreme

Rich Dad, Poor Dad

The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams(the only science fiction I can read without getting bored and wating to punch the author. I really enjoy his writing style.)

The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand

Chambers Science Factbook- Excellent material for making yourself feel smart.

The Atlas of Human Anatomy and Physiology(I think thats the name of this book, I don't have it in front of me right now. The photos in this book are disgusting at first glance but very descriptive if you have a strong stomach. Best textbook ever)

Black Rednecks and White Liberals by Thomas Sowell

1984 and Animal Farm by George Orwell (those who know ,know. Those who don't, find a library or a book store)

Behold a Pale White Horse(I think thats the title)-I read this book in highschool and it made me mad dopefiend paranoid. I doubt much of its true but still....

and last but not least...
My college algebra textbook. I fucking love math.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:16 am

Style-0 wrote:
ktownhero wrote:I 've read a ton of books, I could recommend a lot. I was a philosophy major in college.
...hm, and what has this to do with reading ,I get the feeling that you use it to show that you read a lot !?

I had to study greek philosophers in uni and it made me better at reading into meaning and symbolism.

I'm not saying that because you've read certain things you're instantly intelligent and have a valuable opinion on everything ever written - it can make you more informed though.

Style-0 · Post by **Style-0** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:57 am

You're absolutely right, bamboo. But I still think it's pretty funny

, but then again I wrongly understod the topic to be about novels, not books of any kind.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:16 am

Hokuto no Ken wide-ban vol. 1. No furigana, so I'm not sure how much of this will actually be read.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:33 pm

Started reading some Conan the other night...why the hell did I wait so long? A lot of lovecraft influence here surprisingly, and outright skepticism regarding the nature of society itself. Very subtely the thing becomes social commentary--is it better to be a free beast or learned man in a cage?

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:12 am

What happens if you're not reading any of these books, and Jewish (we don't believe in hell)?

So where I'm going now?

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:33 am

Jigoku? Hades?

Just take a time out.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:50 am

Now we need a thread:

Read these books AND go to hell

These are probably the books I want to read.

the2bears · Post by **the2bears** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:57 am

Any of Gene Wolfe's 3 series, Book of the New Sun, Book of the Long Sun, or Book of the Short Sun. Fantastic stuff, strangely set in the future yet... not? You just can't get a feel for the time, as if it's so far in the future that it doesn't matter.

And any of China Mieville's stuff... steam-punk new weird

Bill

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:09 am

SpooN wrote:Everyone needs to read Stanislaw Lem. Seriously he is very underrated and if known then only for Solaris which is in my opinion one of his weaker works.

Lem's "The Investigation" is the best book I ever read. "The Chain of Chance" aims in a similar direction but is not as mind-boggling.

If you are into Science Fiction read "The Invincible", the ending sucks but the rest is amazing especially if you consider that it was written 1964.

There is (or at least was for me) deeper moral in the mentioned books that makes them so much more "read worthy" than normal fiction.

Hmm. I've read through some of his shorts, and tried to slog through a bit of Memoirs Found in a Bathtub. Not my *favorite* author, but English isn't the work's native language. Hard to put my finger on it, but there's definitely a slightly different angle than you normally see in sci-fi.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:15 am

CMoon wrote:I think the racist thing can for the most part be forgiven--they were in general falling in line with current thinking (and it is worth noting that in Mountains of Madness Lovecraft essentially retracts/apologizes for his racist ramblings--though you must read between the lines a bit.) These guys weren't hate mongering, cross burning, violent men. For the most part, they just wrote things meant to capture the imagination of their readers who by in large we would call racist by today's standards, but if they lived today would probably carry none of this stupid baggage with them. Write it off as a sign of the times--I hope people from the future are so forgiving of us!

Odd! I was thinking about Lovecraft a few days ago for some reason or other, and that's pretty much the conclusion I arrived at.

That said, here's something from everybody's favorite authority, teh Wiki:

'He married a woman of Ukrainian Jewish ancestry, Sonia Greene, who later said she had to repeatedly remind Lovecraft of her background when he made anti-Semitic remarks. "Whenever we found ourselves in the racially mixed crowds which characterize New York," Greene wrote after her divorce from Lovecraft, "Howard would become livid with rage. He seemed almost to lose his mind."'

On the whole, Lovecraft was pretty harmless, but his irrational fears and hatreds should stay buried.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:14 am

Ed Oscuro wrote: On the whole, Lovecraft was pretty harmless, but his irrational fears and hatreds should stay buried.

Yeah, your average Joe doesn't need to be stumbling upon those non-euclidian cities of prehuman origin who's masters lie in perpetual slumber--who's sleep itself spins the very fabric of our time/space. Let that stay buried!

No seriously, about lovecraft, he exhonerates himself in mountains of madness--and I don't think you can find his silly ramblings anywhere else after that story. It seems somewhere he learned his lesson.

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:54 am

First:

Lovecraft was a PASP invoking eugenics until he moved to New York and married his jewish friend (Sonia Green). Two years outside the Providence cocoon must have changed him, e.g. all tales after that period have the "doesn't matter the colour of your skin, we're all temporary witnesses of a bigger game".

I don't read narrative but I invite you to buy "Hellstrom's hive", very thought-provoking minor work by Frank Herbert, it will be reprinted within a few weeks.

Since I have a good library at disposal (uni's one), I am completing my "wide" education. Suggested authors:

- Richard Dawkins, first and foremost (I am close to finish "God's delusion" as well);
- Stephen Pinker. Pinker has become the cultural idol of the moderate soccer moms who want to "show off" culture to get fresh dick, and his political positions make no sense for the most part. He is also excellent at making "literature reviews" though, i.e. he can put together vast masses of literature and turn them into a coherent stream of information with respect to a given field of inquiry, e.g. cognitive neurosciences;
- Daniel Dennett, Especially "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" and "Brainchildren". Dennett is how philosophy should be done, and that's all I need to say;
- Noam Chomsky, the dangerous Communist who sticks to facts (typical of dangerous eversives). Steer clear off his linguistic books, he can't make clear comments for the life of his (but he still remains the founder of the field). Ted Rall and William Blum are also excellent in this respect;
- Pr0n (?!)

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:59 am

Randorama wrote:First:

Lovecraft was a PASP invoking eugenics until he moved to New York and married his jewish friend (Sonia Green). Two years outside the Providence cocoon must have changed him, e.g. all tales after that period have the "doesn't matter the colour of your skin, we're all temporary witnesses of a bigger game".

So in 'hood terms, he went soft?
I need to get into some Lovecraft. Until now, I thought of him as the guy responsible for Cthutlu(is that right?) and the Re-Animator.

any recommends for getting started?

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:13 am

Never_Scurred wrote: any recommends for getting started?

Mountains of Madness is easily his best work, but it is also his next-to-longest (novella length.) Most of his stories are satisfying, and I strongly recommend just buying in. But it is mountains of madness that truly shows all his literary skill and sets him easily apart from his contemporaries. It is probably unmatched--a work of pure genius.

Edit: slight correction of facts

Dale · Post by **Dale** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:17 am

Just out of curiosity has anyone here read the book "Heat Shock" by Robert Geer? Its a pretty fun action drama, that has a very unique style.

Krooze L-Roy · Post by **Krooze L-Roy** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:43 am

Dostoevsky. God, I got tired of hearing that name in college. Luckily I took an easy major and managed to avoid reading a single word of his. Sounded like the sort of stuff that would turn me off reading forever.

I tried reading through Dracula and never finished it. Such a dissappointment because it started out SOOO good. Then all the characters inexplicably became retarded and the book when downhill for me.

I can't believe that anyone who has read anything by Vonnegut could possibly have not liked it, especially Slaughterhouse. For any of you who have read anything by him and enjoyed his sense of humor, I very highly recommend Breakfast of Champions. Probably my favorite book of all time; certainly the funniest. He does such bizarre things as taking a moment out of the story to tell you the length and girth of each of the male characters' penises, drawing crude pictures of cows and "beavers," and other similarly wacky stuff. His writing style is, as always, pretty sloppy and crude, but it's about as entertaining as it gets.

I'm currently reading through God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater by the above, and it's pretty good as well. Some of his other stuff is a bit lackluster though, I must admit.

Anyone looking for a damn good piece of literature needs to pick up East of Eden by Steinbeck. It's a really beautiful book if you have the patience to really savour it. Definately the best thing he ever wrote.