IGN posts Top 10 Shmups article

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:58 pm

Wait, what's wrong with the list? You know, if that list was slightly reordered, it could almost pass off as a Shmupsforum top 10. If I had to write a top 10 shooter list for a magazine, mine would probably look quite similar.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:01 pm

Ganelon wrote:Wait, what's wrong with the list? You know, if that list was slightly reordered, it could almost pass off as a Shmupsforum top 10. If I had to write a top 10 shooter list for a magazine, mine would probably look quite similar.

Yes, it's a good list - someone should call a doctor, Ign editors got a fever.

Any top ten with Salamander in it deserves respect. Well done.

Post by **system11** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:21 pm

jp wrote:
CMoon wrote:Seemingly their top 10 list are the ONLY 'schmups' they've played. RSG and DDP seem to be mentioned only because someone told them to mention them.

My thoughts exactly. IGN needs to keep their mouth shut about genres they obviously know nothing about.

Absolutely. Exposure of a genre still losing players is BAD, and nobody should write about them unless they have the cabals permission.

Seriously, WTF?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:11 pm

Coulda been a lot worse.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:06 pm

Ganelon wrote:Wait, what's wrong with the list? You know, if that list was slightly reordered, it could almost pass off as a Shmupsforum top 10. If I had to write a top 10 shooter list for a magazine, mine would probably look quite similar.

OK, it just wouldn't be my top ten list.

It's not like I'm pissed by their article, rather it just comes off as very naive. I'd have rather seen the same list with the same comments, only it simply mentioned as representative shooters that are out there. Maybe a 'beginner's' guide?

Still, it is a VERY pedestrian list.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:15 pm

The three consecutive Treasure games ruin it, especially since Bangai-O is not a 2D space schump. They almost redeem themselves with the first documented praise for Gunbird 2 in gaming media, but their reasoning is pretty... shall we say unrefined (when not talking about dinosaurs).

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:37 pm

CMoon wrote: OK, it just wouldn't be my top ten list.

It's not like I'm pissed by their article, rather it just comes off as very naive. I'd have rather seen the same list with the same comments, only it simply mentioned as representative shooters that are out there. Maybe a 'beginner's' guide?

Still, it is a VERY pedestrian list.

Yeah, but people don't seem to pay attention to lists that aren't "top something." I wouldn't have any of those games on my top 10, and only 1 on my top 25, but I respect it as a very representative list of the non-JP online shooter audience. And while the comments are primitive, knowing IGN's audience, it seems entirely possible that the writer just held back on delving into score mechanics and other newbie put-offs in order to appeal to more readers.

Now, if it had SNS2 or R-Type Final (or even the unspectacular yet ubiquitous Raiden), I'd be questioning its integrity. But it's thankfully free of such blatant ignorance. In fact, this list is probably even more refreshing than most in that it appreciates Life Force whereas even many here don't really think too highly of such "older" shooters, for better or worse.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:49 pm

CIT wrote:WTF!? Treasure still exist! And they made Gradius V after Ikaruga!

Perhaps they confused "swan song" with "magnus opus" or something. It's called the schmup-effect I believe.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:08 am

Ganelon wrote:this list is probably even more refreshing than most in that it appreciates Life Force whereas even many here don't really think too highly of such "older" shooters, for better or worse.

Yes, I meant to mention that too... nice to see classic 8-bit / 16-bit era shmupping not being completely forgotten.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:38 am

"Treasure's swan song." haha Wow. Missed that. Apparently the author exists in another dimension where Bonk is the most popular shmup and Treasure's sunset was in 2002.

bVork · Post by **bVork** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:22 am

IGN's writing is putrid, news at 11.

Despite that, this list actually isn't too bad. I disagree with a lot of it, but that's my personal opinion - they selected mostly very good games. The only ones that really shouldn't be on there are Einhander (betcha the writer is a Square fanboy) and Bangai-O (it isn't a shooter!).

I think the original R-Type is still the best of that series. R-Type 3's incredibly dull first level is a major knock against it, though the rest of the game is certainly very good.

Still, it's certainly a decent list. Hope it gets more IGN readers to check out Dodonpachi and Life Force. It would have been better if they had either focused entirely on domestic home shooter releases or looked at some import shooters besides Radiant Silvergun and Dodonpachi, but I can't really complain about this - unlike a lot of mainstream shooter coverage, it isn't completely off-base and wrong.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:29 pm

sometimes i think the people here like to disagree with anything for the sake of it. let's make this thread interesting: post your top 10 2d space shooters (in order) and see what comments *you* get

HeWhoGoverns · Post by **HeWhoGoverns** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:23 pm

I personally prefer R-Type 3 to the original. R-Type 3 was my first R-type

. I am saddened by the lack of Thunder Force or Gradius on the list, but I agree with most of the other games there, especially since I am a Treasure fanboy. I really need to get a hold of Do Don Pachi and Gunbird, I've been hearing a lot of good things about them.

jp · Post by jp » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:59 pm

bloodflowers wrote:
jp wrote:
CMoon wrote:Seemingly their top 10 list are the ONLY 'schmups' they've played. RSG and DDP seem to be mentioned only because someone told them to mention them.

My thoughts exactly. IGN needs to keep their mouth shut about genres they obviously know nothing about.
Absolutely. Exposure of a genre still losing players is BAD, and nobody should write about them unless they have the cabals permission.

Seriously, WTF?

My bad! I completely forgot about all the stock I have in Cave plus the apparent fact that the people that are STILL playing 2D shooters in the 21st century are quitting left and right (you know, as opposed to the '90s when the genre actually fell off commercially).

Granted, my comment was more towards the shit writing than the list itself. The list itself, while lame because every game under Einhander rapes it on that list (yes, even DDP and G.Darius, so no "You only hate it 'cuz of the console dur!" drivel please) isn't too bad. Though I completely disagree with it and view it as more of a "Top 10 Shmups In so far as Name Recognition" list as opposed to having much of anything to do with quality comparison (because its painfully obvious that one game is on there because Square made it and two more are there because they're part of a big series. Hellooo, Border Down anybody?).

And don't even bother with the "But for non-importers/budget types..." because Radiant Silvergun is on there as is DDP.

But I digress. My comment was aimed towards this:
"Despite its limited availability, " + "...that is, if you can manage to find yourself a copy." - Radiant Silvergun bit

"Ikaruga is essentially Treasure's swan song." - Ikaruga bit

I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm being idealistic here... but I tend to like to think that, you know, journalist, you know, research shit or something. Because RS isn't "rare" by any means, and Ikaruga certainly wasn't Treasure's swan song.

And I mean honestly, this would be like me making a list for top 10 FPS games of all time and posting it on a major website or something. And I don't see how posting a bunch of well known shmups (or schmups I guess I should say) is really helping the genre. Introduce people to something thats a bit more obscure but worlds better (especially now that everyone has released a bajillion collections), not just something that'll make your readers go, "Oh yeah, I remember that game." or "Oh yeah, I've heard of Radiant Silvergun."

My main complaint is they didn't get someone that knows jackshit about the genre to do the list. They could've easily gotten say... Frog to do the list. And while I wouldn't agree with his list either, at least it would be competent and wouldn't just be "Top 10 Most Heard of Shooters".

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:07 pm

every game under Einhander rapes it on that list (yes, even DDP and G.Darius

Oh please, Einhander is so much better than G Darius.

adam76 · Post by **adam76** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:22 pm

The trouble with lists like this is that entirely subjective, therefore making them entirely easy to disagree with. I'd applaud them for writing about a (now)marginalised genre of gaming, were their list not so jawdroppingly average. Not for the standard of the games selected - they're mostly good games - but for the lack of research it took to plump for them in the first place. Its been compiled for the casual gaming fan, meaning that most of the titles are widely available in Pal releases while others are recommended(in R-Type III's case), as they can be downloaded for Wii. On top of this - as has been pointed out already - Dodonpachi and Radiant Silvergun appear to have been included for the kudos their names lend to the list, rather than how good a game they actually are. I mean how many shooting fans would honestly put Einhander above DDP?