Sorry, I shouldn't have said you like R-Type Final; probably better to say that you didn't hate it. I can remember distinctly a series of posts from you around the time you got R-Type Final that were on the positive side, with plenty of qualifications. Don't ask me why I remember. I suspect I found the comments interesting.BulletMagnet wrote:Actually I'm not a huge R-Type fan in general (not a hater either though): you might be thinking of someone else.
The one thing I can recall saying about RTF that might be considered "interesting" is that I view it more as a tribute to the rest of the series than a "game" in itself, at least in one sense anyways. Otherwise, no clue, heh heh.professor ganson wrote:I can remember distinctly a series of posts from you around the time you got R-Type Final that were on the positive side, with plenty of qualifications. Don't ask me why I remember. I suspect I found the comments interesting.
One more important distinction to make is the field in which you can control the "camera." In Fantasy Zone it is linear, it's still a side-scrolling shooter. In Bangai-O you can move in any direction the map will allow. The fact that you can save between stages and resume where you left off is another check against.j^aws wrote:Stargate has push-scroll and I voted for it last year. So does Fantasy Zone, Bangai-O, Ikari Warriors etc...iatneH wrote:So would OutZone be disqualified due to push-scroll? We even have a review on Xenocide files
By linear, you mean Horizontal axis right? Fantasy Zone scrolls on both X and Y axis. It's basically a Defender clone with 'dumbed' down controls...Rob wrote:One more important distinction to make is the field in which you can control the "camera." In Fantasy Zone it is linear, it's still a side-scrolling shooter.j^aws wrote:Stargate has push-scroll and I voted for it last year. So does Fantasy Zone, Bangai-O, Ikari Warriors etc...iatneH wrote:So would OutZone be disqualified due to push-scroll? We even have a review on Xenocide files
Bangai-O is like Thrust, a multi-directional gravity/ thrust based shmup crossed with basically Robotron controls... all from the early 80's...Rob wrote: In Bangai-O you can move in any direction the map will allow. The fact that you can save between stages and resume where you left off is another check against.
No. Each stage is self-contained, it doesn't matter how well you did in previous stages. If you lose stage 22, start over, and not at stage 1. The arcade and every console game modeled after is based on a continuous session until the credit or game ends. The entire genre is based on that core challenge. Bangai-O is more like console action/platform games.j^aws wrote: And saving between stages is no different than pausing a game...
Okay, you're referring to scoring... fair enough, just start over. It's just you mention "move in any direction the map will allow", then follow with saving as a "check against", didn't make sense to me in the context of an Arena shmup being allowed this year...Rob wrote:No. Each stage is self-contained, it doesn't matter how well you did in previous stages. If you lose stage 22, start over, and not at stage 1. The arcade and every console game modeled after is based on a continuous session until the credit or game ends. The entire genre is based on that core challenge. Bangai-O is more like console action/platform games.j^aws wrote: And saving between stages is no different than pausing a game...
Ibara (Arcade and PS2) Vs. Ibara Arranged (PS2) Vs. Ibara Black Label (Arcade) is another case where people will have to be careful to vote specifically.CIT wrote:Only post the system if there are significant structural differences, such that two games with the same title can actually be considered two entirely different games.
For example:
Gradius III (Arcade) Vs. Gradius III (SNES) => some stages are completely different.
They play on a three-dimensional space. While in Defender, Tempest, Donpachi your bullets are on the same plane of their targets (and games like Twinbee or Xevious have different fields of depth, but just in an illusory way), in Space Harrier they are not.The Coop wrote:I have a question...
Since my arrival here, I've seen mention of something that's bugged me a bit. Why are games like Galaxy Force II, After Burner, Space Harrier and their ilk considered "not shmups"?
And yet the gameplay is much the same in something like Galaxy Force II. Fly a ship, dodge and fire, kill everything, weapon power ups, avoid crashing into the scenery, shields, ship speed adjusting, you move your ship on the x and y axis as the game auto scrolls you... the only real difference is the direction of the scroll. That one thing seems to be the sticking point for some. Interesting.Turrican wrote:They play on a three-dimensional space. While in Defender, Tempest, Donpachi your bullets are on the same plane of their targets (and games like Twinbee or Xevious have different fields of depth, but just in an illusory way), in Space Harrier they are not.The Coop wrote:I have a question...
Since my arrival here, I've seen mention of something that's bugged me a bit. Why are games like Galaxy Force II, After Burner, Space Harrier and their ilk considered "not shmups"?
Oh, I wasn't looking to start one. Everyone has their own opinion on the matter, and nothing I or they say is going to change either of our minds. It kind of falls into the "What makes a movie/song/painting/whatever good?" to me... personal views are always going to get in the way of making everyone happy with a universal set of guidelines that can be applied to everything across the board. Sure, some things in shmupdom are pretty cut and dry, but there's a lot of gray area on the subject, and arguing those gray areas just gets tiresome (like what is and isn't a good/bad shmup). I figure while we'll all have some parts that we agree on, there will always be spots of disagreement... no matter how many "rules" or traits get thrown about by either side.Turrican wrote:... but be aware that people would not welocome another "what is a shmup" debate...
Zaxxon isn't really an exception, nor other isometric shmups like Viewpoint, IMO.Turrican wrote: ...Of course Rob is right when he says there's not a strict rule, and in this case I guess Zaxxon is considered the exception.
...
I like how Solar Assault and Zoradius are not considered shmups.Turrican wrote:They play on a three-dimensional space. While in Defender, Tempest, Donpachi your bullets are on the same plane of their targets (and games like Twinbee or Xevious have different fields of depth, but just in an illusory way), in Space Harrier they are not.The Coop wrote:I have a question...
Since my arrival here, I've seen mention of something that's bugged me a bit. Why are games like Galaxy Force II, After Burner, Space Harrier and their ilk considered "not shmups"?
^ Verdict? Can of Worms?...Of course Rob is right when he says there's not a strict rule, and in this case I guess Zaxxon is considered the exception.
http://www.johnberman.com/pics/funny/no ... _again.jpgj^aws wrote:stuff
