Best Shooting On Mega Drive ?

[Rob]

It's a bland game. The graphics, the music, the challenge. There is a technosoft quality about it and some similarities with TF3, decent bosses... that's it.

[stratos]

Hey, Rob, I see you like very few games!!

Not that's a bad thing... but you seem to dislike so much games just because they are memorizer... you can't say a game is bad or be strict with it just because you don't like the subgeenere

[Rob]

Hey, Rob, I see you like very few games!!

Not that's a bad thing... but you seem to dislike so much games just because they are memorizer...

I'd say it's more that I dislike games that are poorly designed (with my own criteria, like too much repetition, flickering bullets, etc.), "memorizer" isn't enough to hold something back. If challenge is contained strictly within having to memorize something and repeating 5-10 minute sections for the next dead end passageway to avoid or ridiculous guillotine-esque (Gaiares) trap, that's bad. Wasting time on nonsense like that is not cool when other games cut right to the fun (Psikyo!).

[stratos]

Ok, psykio games are particular shmups with its own style and gameplay, they are designed for survival play but they surpass the memorizer style of design putting in some modern bullet patterns, so they are more technical and less repetitive; but, we can say psykio produces modern shmups, while, for example, Eliminate Down belongs to an older trend of games that took inspiration from R-Type: it's like saying that Mushi is crappy because it's similar to DDP.

Interesting discussion, though

[BulletMagnet]

but, we can say psykio produces modern shmups

Some, myself included, would argue to a point on that one.

it's like saying that Mushi is crappy because it's similar to DDP.

The thing is, Rob would probably say that.

[CIT]

Psikyo is the second worst shooting game developer of all time (after Pack-In-Video). All they did was recycle Sonic Wings more than 10 times. The challenge in their games comes entirely from mindless memorization of enemy appearances and bullet patterns, and requires no tactical thinking whatsoever. The difficulty level of their games comes not from a fair challenge or a risk-reward relationship with scoring, but simply by jumbling the first 4 stages and speeding up bullets in later stages so they can barely be seen. The scoring systems are at worst nonexistant at best a tired rip-off of Raiden DX. Worst of all, their games have shitty graphics (such as the dirt-brown to shit-brown color range of the Strikers games) and absolutely horrid music. The only Psikyo games that are good are Sengoku Blade, because it's horizontal, has great graphics and most importanty tits, and Zero Gunner 2, because it's so different from all the other Psikyo games. Part of the reason the Megadrive is such a great system for shooting games is the fact that there are NO Psikyo games on it. [/polemic]

[Shotgunfacelift]

Just go gleylancer and lock the thread.

[Rob]

Psikyo is the second worst shooting game developer of all time (after Pack-In-Video). All they did was recycle Sonic Wings more than 10 times. The challenge in their games comes entirely from mindless memorization of enemy appearances and bullet patterns, and requires no tactical thinking whatsoever. The difficulty level of their games comes not from a fair challenge or a risk-reward relationship with scoring, but simply by jumbling the first 4 stages and speeding up bullets in later stages so they can barely be seen. The scoring systems are at worst nonexistant at best a tired rip-off of Raiden DX. Worst of all, their games have shitty graphics (such as the dirt-brown to shit-brown color range of the Strikers games) and absolutely horrid music. The only Psikyo games that are good are Sengoku Blade, because it's horizontal, has great graphics and most importanty tits, and Zero Gunner 2, because it's so different from all the other Psikyo games. Part of the reason the Megadrive is such a great system for shooting games is the fact that there are NO Psikyo games on it. [/polemic]

So you're saying Sonic Wings is bad? I'll agree with that.

[stratos]

but, we can say psykio produces modern shmups

Some, myself included, would argue to a point on that one.

Ok, I intended to say that they are modern if compared with R-Type like shmups, since they are more bullet pattern-oriented and don't have the tipical traps of older games, so they are a sort of evolution.

Obviously, compared to Cave or Raizing games, they seem older; I simply wanted to say that Rob can't say that ED is a bad game because he compares it with Gunbird (however I like both )

[stratos]

Definitely, we can say Psykio games are shooter with an old school feel but more dense bullet patterns and less scenery traps.

They compare most to Toaplan games that to memorizers, but they have a differnt feel...

[professor ganson]

Psikyo is the second worst shooting game developer of all time (after Pack-In-Video). All they did was recycle Sonic Wings more than 10 times. The challenge in their games comes entirely from mindless memorization of enemy appearances and bullet patterns, and requires no tactical thinking whatsoever. The difficulty level of their games comes not from a fair challenge or a risk-reward relationship with scoring, but simply by jumbling the first 4 stages and speeding up bullets in later stages so they can barely be seen. The scoring systems are at worst nonexistant at best a tired rip-off of Raiden DX. Worst of all, their games have shitty graphics (such as the dirt-brown to shit-brown color range of the Strikers games) and absolutely horrid music. The only Psikyo games that are good are Sengoku Blade, because it's horizontal, has great graphics and most importanty tits, and Zero Gunner 2, because it's so different from all the other Psikyo games. Part of the reason the Megadrive is such a great system for shooting games is the fact that there are NO Psikyo games on it. [/polemic]

You raise some valid complaints, though I disagree with your conclusion. I just want to respond to a few things. First, the graphics in Strikers are an acquired taste. I didn't think much of them at first, but now I think think they are great. They offer a mechanistic, dark, soulless atmosphere-- distinctive and interesting. Second, the memorization complaints are a bit too strong. Yes, getting a truly excellent score or beating some of the harder bosses is largely a matter of memorization, but many stages are just fun opportunities to play dodge ball. Also, I really enjoy the sort of memorization that is needed for getting better in Psikyo verts-- it's like getting to know a somewhat complex piece of music. Third, I can't comment on the game music because I always have to play with the volume off (so as not to annoy my family). I do agree that the random-level thing sometimes feels a bit cheap, and I positively dislike it in the case of Dragon Blaze. But, speaking of DB, I think the dragon shot is a very nice innovation. And with shmups I'm happy with gradual improvement that culminates in masterpieces like Strikers II and Dragon Blaze. Think of a great artist like Paul Klee-- many of his works are similar in character and some are not so deep. But his gradual working through of similar themes and returning to similar ideas yielded some real masterpieces. Similar remarks can be made for any creative discipline-- returning again and again to similar issues/problems sometimes yields remarkable results. I've been thinking about some of the same problems for the past 10 years in my own work.

[Ko.oS]

well, generally I prefer arcade shmups to console shmumps, but i prefer console shmumps to non-console shumps -- if that makes sense.


so, here's my overopinionated 2cents on some genny shooters (mostly played via emulators, by the way)


*Eliminate down;
much better than it seems first - cool explosions, i like the way the BGM changes according to the change of scrolling direction (giving it a 'cinematic' feel, much like later stages in Guwange, etc), and the weapon switching is nice too - the game's nothing earth shattering, of course, but good enough to keep you entertained for a weekend or two (the first time i reached the final boss i actually thought you were supposed to time him out. yea, im dunce like that). similarly to TFIII and IV it has some (little) room for 'refinement' (going for a onelife clear while picking up all excess powerups ), which is always nice.
by the way, in the ending credits, it says on of the designers is J. INOUE; not sure if that is the joker guy or not.


*GleyLancer;
reminiscent of the castlevania series, decent blast'em up alloverall and lenght is just alright. (not too long, not too short). and yea, it's not particularly mentally stimulating, but you're supposed to sit back, relax, and enjoy the excellent AUDIOVISUALS anyway. think of it as an adventure shooter! it does what it does pretty well. there's always the hidden MANIA difficulty setting, if you need to prove yourself.


*Sagaia;
only a shade of the original, but good enough. multiple paths are always a plus for replay value. too bad there's no sound test.......


ive played most of the other horzies as well, but im too tired to comment on them......

--

TOAPLANs vertical offerings are fine too, i think.
daisenpu is okay, as long as you dont play it on stupid easy, and quite different than the arcade version (in a good way), and fire shark is okay too, on 'hard' anyway. the fully powered up red weapon is , by the way (eat this, beltiana). the game is a bit too long for my tastes, but still better than musha and co.
(no offense to COMPILE (RIP))


re: V-Five/Grindstormer;
im probably on of three people who actually prefers the latter....
of course, the first round is boring as all fuck (since its soooooooo empty), however, as i said in the GENERAL DISCUSSION thread, the game has some neat scoring tricks, and playing the 2-X stages from scratch (using the stage select mode) and finding new ways to rack up the digits is quite a bit of fun (try it yourself).

[for the two of you who care, my best score for stage 2-6 on normal (normal gives you more extends and thus higher scoring potential) was 3.472M - beat that if you can . . .]

i do agree on the pre.donpachi pre.batsugun pre.whatever comments, of course; the game is best played with the missile, by the way, and as such its also reminiscent of Mushihime and its trailing formation or whatever its called. of course this goes back to the cave dude being a big fan of salamander, blahblahblah

by the way, if you're playing the V-Five variant, see if you can grab all 92 (ninety-two) "gems" in stage 1-5 resp. 2-5. its not easy. the "perfect collect all items"-aspect is reminiscent of FEVERON, too, isnt it. there's even a speed section (like in DOJ, stage3, yada yada)


TRIPLE-K TIGER i found to be only so-so (i dont like slow ships) and TATSUJIN puts me to sleep, even when playing with a superfast ship. sadly, i never managed to get too much into SLAP FIGHT (the game is best described as pre.GAREGGA, but thats another thread)

_______________
"die, motherfucker"

[Ed Oscuro]

*GleyLancer;
reminiscent of the castlevania series

:lol: I disagree, but I understand why you said that. I think it's a stretch though!

there's always the hidden MANIA difficulty setting, if you need to prove yourself.

Didn't know about that...I should try to finish the game regularly and then see this mode. By the way, what Mover do you use?

[Sonic R]

Didn't know about that...I should try to finish the game regularly and then see this mode. By the way, what Mover do you use?

I prefer the Reverse mover. Though I have recently heard tall tales of the ease of the search mover - thus making the game easy. Search mover = cheating?

[kccttzj]

Didn't know about that...I should try to finish the game regularly and then see this mode. By the way, what Mover do you use?

I prefer the Reverse mover. Though I have recently heard tall tales of the ease of the search mover - thus making the game easy. Search mover = cheating?

Are you calling me a cheater?? =P Lol. I do think that using search is easiest. I've been trying to use some of the other movers to get better at controlling the direction though.

[Sonic R]

Didn't know about that...I should try to finish the game regularly and then see this mode. By the way, what Mover do you use?

I prefer the Reverse mover. Though I have recently heard tall tales of the ease of the search mover - thus making the game easy. Search mover = cheating?

Are you calling me a cheater?? =P Lol. I do think that using search is easiest. I've been trying to use some of the other movers to get better at controlling the direction though.

OH no not at all but it just bugs me when people say its the easiest thing on Sega 16 bit and slam it for that when a title like Thunder Force III is 10 times easier and gets such high remarks. Then people want to slam Eliminate Down for being to bland and too hard. Either way I love both Gleylancer and Thunder Force III such as I think they are both better than TFIV.

I come to this conclusion - if it cost $$$$$$$$, then its overrated and really not that great of a game, right?

[DBH87]

Where did I write my two cents about megadrive shmups before? Oh, yes, here.

And an updated official quality list:


Lightening Force - 10/10
Twinkle Tale - 9/10
Thunder Force 3 - 9/10
Thunder Force 2 - 8/10
Forgotten Worlds - 7/10
Bio Hazard Battle - 7/10
Phelios - 7/10
Gleylancer - 7/10
Eliminate Down - 6/10
MUSHA - 6/10
Elemental Master - 6/10
Battlemania 2 - 6/10
Sol-Deace - 5/10
Air Buster - 5/10
Raiden Trad - 5/10
Wings of Wor - 5/10
Task Force Harrier Ex - 5/10
Verytex - 5/10
Whip Rush - 5/10
Sagaia - 4/10
Gaiares - 4/10
Undead Line - 4/10
Grindstormer - 4/10
Master of Weapon - 4/10
Trouble Shooter - 4/10
Vapor Trail - 4/10
Curse - 4/10
Arrow Flash - 3/10
Steel Empire - 3/10
Fire Shark - 3/10
Truxton - 3/10
Twin Cobra - 3/10
Magic Girl - 3/10
Darwin 4081 - 3/10
Insector X - 2/10
Crossfire - 2/10
Bioship Paladin - 1/10
Divine Sealing - 1/10

So much junk.

is that all the shooters on the megadrive, i just recently bought one so im looking for names of all the titles unless this is the complete list, or does anyone have a link

[CIT]

Complete list: http://www.triggerzone.de/gamesdb/index ... tem&id=247

[DBH87]

Complete list: http://www.triggerzone.de/gamesdb/index ... tem&id=247

thanks CIT

[The Coop]

*Sagaia;
only a shade of the original, but good enough. multiple paths are always a plus for replay value. too bad there's no sound test.......

Play the game, get a score high enough to make the hi score board (roughly 150,000), and enter "ZTT" (Zuntata) as your initials. Of course, you can also go here and get the soundtrack in VGM format (plays in WinAmp with a plug-in, which is available on the site).


As for me, here are my recommendations for MegaDrive/Genesis shmuping goodness...

Thunder Force IV (aka Lightening Force)- 10+
Thunder Force III- 9.5
Elemental Master- 8.5
Gley Lancer-9.5
Eliminate Down- 9.5
M.U.S.H.A. (aka Musha Alesta)- 10
Steel Empire (aka Koutetsu Teikoku: Steel Empire)- 9.5
Bio Hazard Battle (aka Crying)- 8
Fire Shark (aka Same! Same! Same!)- 8
Undead Line- 8.5
Super Fantasy Zone- 8.5
Zero Wing (get the European version)- 8
Hellfire- 8
Gaiares- 8
Twin Cobra (aka Kyuukyoku Tiger)- 7
Twin Hawk (aka Daisenpuu)- 8
Sagaia (aka Darius II)- 7.5
Viewpoint- 7
Whip Rush- 7.5
Verytex- 7
Granada- 8.5
Sol-Deace- 7.5
Air Buster (aka Aero Blasters)- 7
Wings of Wor (aka Gynoug)- 8
Raiden Trad (aka Raiden Densetsu)- 7
Phelios- 7
Darwin 4081- 7
Forgotten Worlds- 7.5
Sub Terrania- 8.5
Space Invaders '91 (aka Super Space Invaders)- 7
Curse-7


I personally had some fun with...

Vapor Trail (aka Kuuga)- 6.5
Arrow Flash- 6
Grind Stormer (aka V-V)- 5
Fire Mustang- 4.5
Bio-Ship Paladin- 6
Battle Squadron- 5
Insector-X- 6
Task Force Harrier EX- 6.5
Cross Fire (aka Super Airwolf)- 4.5
Truxton-6
Heavy Unit- 6
Dangerous Seed- 5

... but I have a feeling I'm in the minority in that area. I don't regret buying them at all, as I got my money's worth from them. But they're not quite as good as the first section's shmups. There's nothing really wrong with them, but they just didn't grab me as much playing them.


Stay away from...

Master of Weapon- 3
The Earth Defend- 1
XDR- 2

... unless you just want to complete a collection.


There's also Contra: Hard Corps- 9.5, which is a shmup-ish "run-n-gun" that's very good, as well as Gain Ground- 7.5 and Super Smash TV- 6 which turned out decently (especially GG). Plus, there's Red Zone- 9, and the three "Strike" games Desert Strike- 8, Jungle Strike- 8.5, and Urban Strike- 8 ) which have a lot of shmup qualities to them.


Oh. 10= "Fan-fucking-tastic", 5= Average, 1= "Can I get my time back?", and this is based solely on Genesis/MegaDrive shmups. These aren't being compared to arcade games, SNES shmups or anything.

[beam]

Most of the MD shmups are reviewed on this sega-16 shmups special feature.