MAME and LCD

[it290]

check Use Direct Draw, Wait for Vertical Sync, Match Game Refresh Rate
under resolution, select the native rez for your monitor

Just wanted to chip in on this -- IIRC, if you have Vsync on, regardless of whether 'match game refresh' is checked, the game will actually sync to whatever your monitor's at -- if you set up your CRT properly this is no problem, but sometimes those funky modes can be hard to make and if they're not there at all you'll probably get 60hz - meaning games with funky refresh rates (quite a few of them actually, DDP comes to mind) will not run at the correct speed. So if the game's refresh rate is something your monitor/video card can't/won't do, you're better off leaving Vsync off despite the tearing... if you care about accurate speed.

[GaijinPunch]

The AVGA card seems like a viable option for MAME, but I don't really want to replace my current video card. The PS2 situation seems pretty hopeless though...

You would have to have a dedicated machine to work w/ you AVGA. It *ONLY* outputs 15khz. If you were very good with Windows you might be able to sort out some hardware profile which will load a specific video card at boot. I've never gotten cards to work in tandem like this, but have given it only minimal thought.

I understand some Radeon cards can have their bios hacked to effectively become an AVGA-clone. Not sure if they support all the same resolutions.

Most 16-bit console games are in 256x224 which the AVGA doesn't support. It does have 256x240 though. Most of the emulators (ZSNES, Magic engine, etc.) will give you 8 black lines on top and bottom of the screen. That's about the best you can hope for. Looks fantastic though. I understand Neo Geo looks better through an AVGA, as the consoles RGB signal is considered very poor.

[brumma]

I understand Neo Geo looks better through an AVGA, as the consoles RGB signal is considered very poor.

It actually depends on the version. The earliest Neo-Geo models had the best RGB and the worst composite video. I have one of the earliest, but it has also had the so-called "RGB bypass modification" as well. This is a fix which corrects any problem with the RGB. Anyway, mine looks AWESOME!

Cheers,

[elvis]

I'll chime in here and say that the AVGA doesn't do anything you can't achieve on your own with Linux+XWindows/SVGALib, or Windows and Powerstrip.

It is plug-and-play simplicity however. But if you want to save a few bucks and understand things like modelines and scan frequencies, you can achieve the same without the cost.

Sites like this one:
http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/monitor1.htm

offer a nice background to help you understand exactly what's happening between your console/computer and output device.

It's not difficult stuff to figure out for yourself. But if you are one of the few who struggle with it, the AVGA is a nice alternative.

[GaijinPunch]

The earliest Neo-Geo models had the best RGB and the worst composite video

I don't play Neo Geo games for the most part, but I understand even the earliest models RGB is inferior to most other machines.

I'll chime in here and say that the AVGA doesn't do anything you can't achieve on your own with Linux+XWindows/SVGALib, or Windows and Powerstrip.

I've found that Powerstrip screwed up a few emulators (Magic Engine) but it very well could've been a bad setting. Also, isn't it worth mentioning that your card will have to output 15khz for any of the above to work? It would be nice to have a linux solution, but most of the console emulators I fear wouldn't be there.

[elvis]

I've found that Powerstrip screwed up a few emulators (Magic Engine) but it very well could've been a bad setting. Also, isn't it worth mentioning that your card will have to output 15khz for any of the above to work? It would be nice to have a linux solution, but most of the console emulators I fear wouldn't be there.

About the only cards I've come across that won't do 15KHz are onboard Intel cards. Even these shitty SiS and S3 Unichrome onboard cards all spit out 15Khz happily. Any old Nvidia or ATi card that you can pick up for $20 second hand will do it no worries.

I don't use Windows. My setup is 100% Linux. Plenty of emulators to choose from. You'd be surprised just how many get ported to Linux (or even how many START life under Linux and get ported to Windows later).

[Kaiser]

I have 17" LCD monitor and i dun have problems with MAME i just play in maximised window Set your settings correctly and i'm using wolf mame plus 106

[EOJ]

I sold my monitor and cables to TWE, who's quite happy w/ it if I'm not mistaken.

Indeed!
Still need to get Matt to make me a PS2 cable some day.

[GaijinPunch]

I don't use Windows. My setup is 100% Linux. Plenty of emulators to choose from. You'd be surprised just how many get ported to Linux (or even how many START life under Linux and get ported to Windows later).

Yeah, I would like to compile a list. It would be nice to have my emulation machine running Linux. Do most of the cards support all of those resolutions in MAME properly?

[FRO]

B. Those who can't afford to buy the correct hardware.

My guess is that FRO and others in this thread simply have no idea what they are missing. If someone showed them then they would go straight out and buy the correct equipment right away, except of course if they couldn't afford to.

You'd definitely be right about B! I nearly broke the bank just buying a Turbo Booster for my TG-16 a couple weeks ago.

I suppose if I owned a SuperGun or cab with a proper TATE oriented RGB monitor & all the right hookups I'd know the difference & would refuse to go w/ something else, but until life's expenses are less or my job pays A LOT more to where I can be more frivolous with my money, I guess I'll have to continue to be ignorant

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I sold my monitor and cables to TWE, who's quite happy w/ it if I'm not mistaken.

Indeed!
Still need to get Matt to make me a PS2 cable some day.

Or the fellow shmupper by the name of oxtsu can do the same job for you... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[zaphod]

As I recall those arcadeVGA cards are reflashed Radeons (chuckle)

THe only thing special about them is they spit out 15hz mode by DEFAULT.

Just about any modern video card can drive an arcade mnonitor with enough tweaking.

[elvis]

Yeah, I would like to compile a list. It would be nice to have my emulation machine running Linux. Do most of the cards support all of those resolutions in MAME properly?

I've been meaning to start a giant howto on my site for helping folks choose emulators and software under Linux. I get a lot of people asking me frequently, and it would save time to put it all in one place along with some downloadable pre-written config files and whatnot. Yet another project on a very long list of projects (I *still* have only got half of my consoles in arcade cabinets, and have promised to make my eldest kid her own cab some 6 months ago, not to mention the stickfreaks project that is taking way too long to get off the ground...)

Anyways...

Yes, most of the cards work fine in low resolutions. If they can do 15KHz they can do anything. The difference with the AVGA is that it has a list of pre-programmed modes that it handles in BIOS, which it then reports to the Windows drivers. The example someone mentioned above where it can't do proper SNES output is actually incorrect. The card itself is capable of that, but the Windows drivers aren't. If you use something like SVGALib to generate video modes, then can force that mode out of the card whether the BIOS allows it or not.

The beauty of a lot of open source software is that there are folks out there who got fed up with stupid "soft" imposed restrictions, and give you the option to override them. Just one of the millions of reasons I use and love GNU/Linux and the buckets of software written for it.

[nasty_wolverine]

okay, have a 19 inch benq lcd monitor, after playing around found the best settings suited for LCD's:

effect scanlines (for that CRT look, can be done without too, really whatever you fancy)
multithreading 1 (enable if you have multi processor system, gives a definite speed boost)
video d3d (if you have a video card)
keepaspect 1 (enforce aspect ratio, keep it at one
prescale 9 (set this to perfect squares, i.e. 2*2, 3*3, 4*4, found it somehow looks better this way)
waitvsync 1 (set to v blank)
syncrefresh 0 (somehow setting this 0 maintains 100% speed, otherwise there is a slight drop)
hwstretch 1 (speed up with a good graphics card)
filter 1 (with prescale on, filter doesnt blur the image, actually smooths it out)
triplebuffer 1 (speed up with a good graphics card again)
switchres 0 (set this 0 for LCD's is a must, or else your monitor will try to scale, and it will be horrible)
also try out the settings in nvidia cpl for OpenGL, dont know how it works for other cards

works for me on a dual core E2160 @ 1.8 GHz with 2GB RAM, 512mb 8800 GT nvidia card

[captpain]

Crazy thread necromancy but do not turn on vsync or triple buffering unless you like laggy input.

[Estebang]

On a related note, has anyone else experienced lag from MAME on an LCD TV connected to a computer by HDMI?

[fagin]

Prescale 9..... What drugs you on!!??

[nasty_wolverine]

i use barakeths (hope got the spelling right) lagless mame, so no laggy input. i once set prescale to 16, it looked real neat but i was drunk and mame slowed down. 4 or 9 if you have a cpu that can take it, works best on my LCD....

[Leandro]

For a moment I thought Ed Oscuro was back. Does anyone know what has happened to him?

And yeah, Mame looks amazing on a low res monitor, no need to apply filters or anything, it was mind blowing when I saw it

[nZero]

Since this is back from the dead, I've moved to the hardware forum where it belongs.

[BuckoA51]

This seems like a good place to post this. I've been researching MAME and upscaling a little myself lately. I had the bits lying around to make a simple XP rig running Soft15khz, which is freeware and easy to use. I don't have a capture card but I did take photos as I experimented, so keep in mind these aren't the best pictures since its just a camera pointed at my screen, nevertheless I thought they might be of interest.



First up here's Metal Slug running in MAME, Mame outputting 1080p directly to my DVDO Edge. My TV is a Sony KDL40Z4500.



Here I've simply set MAME to 640x480 and let the Edge upscale the rest of the way, I can't really see much of a difference...



Same as above but with scanlines added via the SLG3000, since Mame's scanlines are crappy... Now we move onto



Mame at 640x480 with bilinear filtering off (Direct3D) Edge upscaling from 640x480 to 1080p, I think this looks horrible.



Finally this is the XRGB3 upscaling from a 15khz mode provided by the Soft15khz software, a big improvement on the above I think

Metal Slug is an interesting example, its sprites are so detailed it actually benefits more from smoother scaling than other games, Shadow Dancer, for instance, I absolutely hate the look of the default MAME scaling on that.

However It's all a moot point anyway, since even though I got the 15khz stuff to work, I could not get the 15khz modes to work nicely with my XRGB3/DVDO Edge combo, the scrolling was never smooth and screen tearing or stuttering were present, a real shame! I've asked on the Soft15khz forum for any way to resolve this but have not received an answer.

[Fudoh]

I still think MAME with DirectDraw instead of Direct3D activated looks best. Because you get a perfect scanline match and the scaling to (for example) 1080p in only added after the scanlines are added.

When you use Soft15khz do you get proper resolution (e.g. 224 active lines with 16 black ones) ?

[BuckoA51]

When you use Soft15khz do you get proper resolution (e.g. 224 active lines with 16 black ones) ?

Yeah that's right, no hardware stretching is applied so there are slight black borders.

I still think MAME with DirectDraw instead of Direct3D activated looks best.

I'll have to have a play with this, with no hardware stretching it was hard to make it fit right to the screen. Frustratingly triple buffering must also be used to avoid tearing, you really can't beat the real thing...

[Leandro]

2nd pic looks best IMO

[BuckoA51]

What, GTFO! Na just kidding, honestly I can see why you'd prefer that in a game like Metal Slug, on some games it just looks wrong to have that smooth scaling though.

[CHI]

has anyone else experienced lag from MAME on an LCD TV connected to a computer by HDMI?

yes, since STGT'10... being a computer noob i never actually got time to mess around with the mame settings so...
but recently i re-arranged my room and had some time to add some extra bits...



LCD via HDMI... lag, someone did say to me to set the LCD to 720 or below
FT500 via VGA... lagless
still no time to mess around with it but i'm happy with this set-up, just waiting for the next STGT

[nasty_wolverine]

@CHI: nice wallpaper, can you post links

[lettuce]

Use the HLSL option mame has had for the last few versions, can add all manner of CRT effects to your LCD display, pincushion, scanlines, phosphor right down to convergence displacment!! Heres Golden Axe with HLSL enable..........



This is my HLSL settings...

hlsl_enable 1
hlslpath hlsl
hlsl_prescale_size 2
hlsl_preset -1
hlsl_write
hlsl_snap_width 1920
hlsl_snap_height 1080
shadow_mask_alpha 0.15
shadow_mask_texture aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count 512
shadow_mask_y_count 384
shadow_mask_usize 0.09375
shadow_mask_vsize 0.09375
curvature 0.05
screen_scale_top 1.0
screen_scale_bottom 1.0
pincushion 0.0
scanline_alpha 0.80
scanline_size 0.90
scanline_height 1.00
scanline_bright_scale 1.50
scanline_bright_offset 0.60
scanline_jitter 0.05
defocus_x 1.5
defocus_y 1.5
red_converge_x -0.4
red_converge_y -0.6
green_converge_x 0.0
green_converge_y 0.0
blue_converge_x 0.0
blue_converge_y 0.0
red_radial_converge_x 0.0
red_radial_converge_y 0.0
green_radial_converge_x 0.0
green_radial_converge_y 0.0
blue_radial_converge_x 0.0
blue_radial_converge_y 0.0
red_from_r 1
red_from_g 0.0
red_from_b 0.0
green_from_r 0.0
green_from_g 1
green_from_b 0.0
blue_from_r 0.0
blue_from_g 0.0
blue_from_b 1
saturation 1.20
red_offset 0.0
green_offset 0.0
blue_offset 0.0
red_scale 1.20
green_scale 1.20
blue_scale 1.20
red_power 1.70
green_power 1.70
blue_power 1.70
red_floor 0.06
green_floor 0.06
blue_floor 0.06
red_phosphor_life 0.10
green_phosphor_life 0.10
blue_phosphor_life 0.10
yiq_enable 0
yiq_cc 3.59754545
yiq_a 0.5
yiq_b 0.5
yiq_o 0.0
yiq_p 1.0
yiq_y 3.0
yiq_i 1.2
yiq_q 0.6
yiq_scan_time 52.6
yiq_phase_count 2

[lettuce]

And raiden with editied 'post.Fx' file................

[BuckoA51]

Nice, I'll definitely look into that, thank you.