Do Ports Pale in Comparison?

[brumma]

Hi Guys (and Gals, if there are any),

This is my first post here on the Shmups forum, but I've been lurking for a while now. I've recently started getting into shooters again after a long absence from the genre. I started out my re-emergence with some Naomi shooters, but have recently discovered some of the Cave shooters as well. (I mentioned it's been a looong absence, right?!) Anyway, I was wondering if I could get some opinions from those of you who've played the arcade PCBs as well as the PS2 ports of some of these. What do you think of the ports? It is my general impression from what I have read so far that they are considered pale imitations of the originals. Is that so? Why or why not? And if a port was your only alternative, would you choose that, or none at all?


Thanks in advance,

-brumma

[GaijinPunch]

You'd probably want to check each particular thread to find out about the ports. Of the PS2 ones, it's generally considered that Dodopnachi DOJ & ESPGaluda are about as good as ports can be, plus bonus content, while Mushihime-sama & Ibara are not. Playable, yes, but there are noticeable differences between them and their PCB counterparts. This is a genre filled with sticklers, so even small differences are undesireable.

I don't now of anyone that would flat out not play a port one if they couldn't buy the PCB, but that's a personal taste.

[iatneH]

Final Blaster on the PCE is the port ever.

Worst port ever, rather.

[BulletMagnet]

Welcome. As GP mentioned, port quality varies from game to game, on the PS2 or pretty much any system. DOJ and Galuda are indeed probably about the best you'll find on the system, but most other ports are at least decent to good, with relatively few considered "subpar." Look around and you should find some info on a good chunk of them.

[CIT]

I'd say Espgaluda on PS2 is actually better than the PCB, because the graphics glitches were cleaned up and it has a shitload of really good bonus stuff as well.

[shinsage]

You'd have to be ultra anal to find any major problems with the ports, there are just people out there who, sadly, have nothing better to do than bitch about minor inconsistencies between ports and the real thing.

If you want to get technical there really is no such thing as a perfect port, but 'pale imitations'?
Come on.

[crithit5000]

GIGA WING GENERATIONS

You know, I've always wondered if the arcade version was a wee bit less... ugly. I don't recall seeing any videos online the last time I looked, anyone care to summarize so I don't have to schlep through a bunch of threads to find out?

[Arvandor]

ESPgaluda may be one of Cave's easiest games, but I don't see why some people almost seem to look down on it because of that. Elitism? I dunno, sure feels like it sometimes. I mean, even if I could 1cc DDP: DOJ, I'd still go and play ESPgaluda a lot. The game is just so much fun.

[Nemo]

GP pretty much nailed it. Mushihimesama IMO is the worst of the lot. Success and failure is decided by mere pixels in shooters, so anyone who says a techinically inferior port isn't worth mentioning is off-base. Plus, for purposes of high scores people should be playing the "same" game.

[GaijinPunch]

You'd have to be ultra anal to find any major problems with the ports, there are just people out there who, sadly, have nothing better to do than bitch about minor inconsistencies between ports and the real thing.

Not really. Mushi & Ibara have striking differences to anyone that's played the PCB more than a handful of times. People that have played it competitively will most likely have their ass pucker up when playing the console versions. Apparently Gigawing Generations is in a similar (or maybe worse) boat, but I've never played the original.

If you're just credit feeding and having a good time, it's no big deal, but...

Success and failure is decided by mere pixels in shooters

If you want to get technical there really is no such thing as a perfect port, but 'pale imitations'?Come on.

Obviously the best ports are of games that share the same arcade hardware. ST-V -> Saturn, Naomi->DC, etc. There's probably a few hundred lines of code difference between the original & port (start menus and stuff).

[gameoverDude]

Giga Wing Generations could have been closer with Tate, even if it would not be a perfect port due to Taito Type-X being superior to PS2.

Though the PC version of Raiden III is preferable, the PS2 one is amazing for what they had to work with.

Mushi & Ibara on PS2 are decent IMO (maybe better than GWG given that they're Tateable), though I haven't played the respective PCBs.

The PS2 version of Rayforce in Taito Memories 2 Joukan is bang-on. Thankfully Taito got wise and added Tate to the vert games in TM2J.

[Arvandor]

Except in glaringly bad ports, having the PCB over the port only matters if you plan on competing seriously for high scores. If you just like to play shmups, and only care about beating your own high scores, and maybe sharing how badly you suck with the people on the forums, most ports are quite fine. Heck, I even find the Saturn version of Dodonpachi quite playable (in tate anyways... totally unplayable in yoko).

[tekneekz]

wow rayforce is in the latest taito's memory pack i never knew that, never had a chance to play rayforce, but ive played their sequels time to pick up a copy, heard its one of zuntatas best

[Ed Oscuro]

What do you think of the ports? It is my general impression from what I have read so far that they are considered pale imitations of the originals. Is that so?

Poor fellow, you must've had such a headache after reading random comments about the thousands of ported games out there. Of course they're all alike, yeah, reality warped itself and games exist in a dimension where there is no individuality, only adherence to some made-up rule.

Also, Fire Shark on Genesis is one of my favorite ports. The plane that doesn't auto-destruct adds a lot to the gameplay, and the powerup progression is different from the arcade, which is probably not a bad thing because I pay more attention to getting those 5,000 points than I should.

[brumma]

What do you think of the ports? It is my general impression from what I have read so far that they are considered pale imitations of the originals. Is that so?

Poor fellow, you must've had such a headache after reading random comments about the thousands of ported games out there. Of course they're all alike, yeah, reality warped itself and games exist in a dimension where there is no individuality, only adherence to some made-up rule.

Well, it wasn't my intention to get feedback on every port of every game out there. I was more or less looking for feedback on the ports of the Cave shooters, as mentioned in my first post.

I have played some Cave games, but without really having much chance to compare the ports to the original PCBs, I am attempting to get an idea on where I should concentrate my efforts--whether it be acquiring an import PS2 and a collection of ports, or some of the Cave PCBs. In this matter I must rely on those who've had more experience than I have to help me determine whether or not I might find the ports of the Cave games disappointing.

I have always been something of a purist in the past, having acquired Neo-Geo, Atomiswave, and Naomi systems in order to play certain games. But obviously, the prices of some of the Cave boards are cost-prohibitive, hence my question regarding playing a port or not playing at all.


Cheers,

-brumma

[Ed Oscuro]

I think the point still stands, though. Why should all the ports be equally faithful?

[GaijinPunch]

Why should all the ports be equally faithful?

Uh... standards, for starters?

[Ceph]

Why should all the ports be equally faithful?

Uh... standards, for starters?

I'm pretty sure he meant "would", not "should".

[GaijinPunch]

I guess that would be hypocritical of me to patronize someone for their typing. I'm somewhere between President Bush & a primary school student.

[brumma]

I think the point still stands, though. Why should all the ports be equally faithful?

Well, if done by the same development team, on the same platform--one could expect a certain level of expertise to develop which should result in similar quality. The first game might be the possible exception.

While the point you raise is interesting, you're really not helping to answer my questions. What is your opinion of these PS2 ports: Mushihime-sama, Ibara, Espgaluda, and DoDonPachi DOJ?

[GaijinPunch]

While the point you raise is interesting, you're really not helping to answer my questions. What is your opinion of these PS2 ports: Mushihime-sama, Ibara, Espgaluda, and DoDonPachi DOJ?

As per before, you should really sift through the threads dedicated to them. Mushi & Ibara have their own special thread, and most likely DOJ & ESPGaluda's ports mentioned are in them many, many times.

In short:

DOJ is about 90% accurate to the PCB. They had trouble emulating the slowdown. Note that only a seasoned pro will notice the differences.
ESPGaluda: Even better than DOJ. Slowdown emulation is spot on.
Both games also come w/ fantastic extras, but that's for another thread.

Mushi & Ibara both share some deficiencies.
-Most noticeable is that both games only run in filtered + interlaced mode (much less crisp than the PCB). If you aren't a stickler for this, you may not notice. If you are, you'll be quite disappointed. If you have an RGB setup, you will ask yourself (and Cave) WTF would they do this. It's fucking ugly.
-Slowdown emulation sucks cock. I've not played much of Ibara, but there's a nice little "strobe slowdown" effect in Mushi. Maniac & Ultra modes are all about getting a 1 pixel hitbox through shitload of bullets. You need a consistant speed, and it is simply not there.

Well, if done by the same development team, on the same platform--one could expect a certain level of expertise to develop which should result in similar quality.

The irony is, Arika did the (superior) DOJ & Galuda ports, while Cave themselves did their other two.

[brumma]

@GaijinPunch - Thanks very much for the summary. As per your previous recommendation, I have been in the process of sorting through the relevant threads for the info, but obviously this takes some time and is an ongoing process. I was not pressing the general public for more info that I could find elsewhere, as I had already received the feedback I was looking for. Also thank you for clarifying the detail regarding who did development on the various ports--interesting.

My follow-up post was more of a direct question to Ed Oscuro. As stated before, he did raise an interesting question, although I found his tone to be perhaps a little belligerent. (Apologies to Ed if I am mistaken.) I was attempting to get his specific opinion of the game ports in question, rather than another philosophical answer.

Anyway, thank you all for your input! I appreciate it.


Cheers,

-brumma

[lawnspic]

Now that Ps2 is covered, what about NAOMI and STV pots to Dreamcast and Saturn. Since i have not played most of these in the arcade i would not know the difference

[Kiken]

Now that Ps2 is covered, what about NAOMI and STV pots to Dreamcast and Saturn. Since i have not played most of these in the arcade i would not know the difference

NAOMI to DC and ST-V to Saturn are normally 98%+ accurate. Not to mention that the ports often include extra modes, easily making them the better overall product.

[ktownhero]

Now that Ps2 is covered, what about NAOMI and STV pots to Dreamcast and Saturn. Since i have not played most of these in the arcade i would not know the difference

NAOMI to DC and ST-V to Saturn are normally 98%+ accurate. Not to mention that the ports often include extra modes, easily making them the better overall product.

Ikaruga is the bomb diggity on Gamecube

[lawnspic]

Now that Ps2 is covered, what about NAOMI and STV pots to Dreamcast and Saturn. Since i have not played most of these in the arcade i would not know the difference

NAOMI to DC and ST-V to Saturn are normally 98%+ accurate. Not to mention that the ports often include extra modes, easily making them the better overall product.

Ikaruga is the bomb diggity on Gamecube

Here we go again on this debate

[GaijinPunch]

Here we go again on this debate

It's debatable?

[bVork]

Everything you need to know about the differences between the two Ikaruga ports is hereand here

[Strider77]

like most said on here all ready.... Dodopnachi DOJ & ESPGaluda are must have ports. awsome, awsome job they did on those....

the rest are worth getting also in my opinion if you aren't going the PCB route. Mushi is alot of fun and has crazy bullet patters. cave rocks pretty much even though folks will argue over their favorites ect.

Dreamcast ports are flawless also.... naomi ports rock. i would never worry over a bad port ever on the DC....

ESPGaluda PS2
Dodonpachi PSX
Mushi PS2
Under Defeat DC
Boarder Down DC
Mars Matrix DC
Gradius 5
Psyvariar 2 PS2/DC

those would give you a good start at some newer ones that prolly passed you by.... all are different from one another. Plus I think all of those are fun to play. There are tons more but i think those would give you a good broad taste of where things have gone. Did the saturn shooters pass you by? If so you NEED Soukyogurentai....... LOVE that game and think it's essential playing.

[lawnspic]

Here we go again on this debate

It's debatable?

lol-Just though i would make the first wave, as most tend to still argue over which port is superior. Though he was not suggesting anything, i just was in the mood to be a dick.