Question to Garegga/Bakraid players

Skyknight · Post by **Skyknight** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:49 pm

Considering the (alleged) way they're meant to be played, I have to wonder if anyone's made an attempt to one-life either of them. Meaning, among other things, never intentionally getting yourself destroyed.

Yes, not just one-credit-clear. ONE-LIFE-CLEAR.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:56 pm

You could do bakraid in one life on its advance course. Not powering up your ship would help stop the rank going through the roof by the time you get to that vampire last boss. I'd actually quite like to see a replay just going for the 1LC on it.

I can't answer the garegga question cause I know sod all about it. Batrider on advance is probably do-able - but it would be a right hard bastard I reckon.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:00 pm

batrider would be a right biyatch yeah.. garegga and bakraid are quite gentle if you can stay away from powerups and bonuses tho

1 life clear is definetly doeable on both altho the last bosses of garegga are never easy..

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:07 pm

Theoretically you probably could...Bakraid in particular is not nearly as mean in terms of rank if you don't play for score. IIRC there's a link on here someplace to a Garegga 1LC, though I forget exactly where...I haven't watched it myself, and am frankly rather floored by the whole concept.

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:35 pm

You can 1CC it, but Garegga you must kill yourself to keep the game normal.

It's not a hard game, but it's get crazy fast if you keep living.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:49 pm

Icarus linked to an inp file of a Garegga 1 life clear recently. I think it's in the "most intense superplay" thread.

Post by **Icarus** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:53 pm

Skyknight wrote:Considering the (alleged) way they're meant to be played, I have to wonder if anyone's made an attempt to one-life either of them. Meaning, among other things, never intentionally getting yourself destroyed.

Yes, not just one-credit-clear. ONE-LIFE-CLEAR.

Garegga's been done. I've seen the replay.
Very smart it is too.

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:12 pm

Could you please encode or upload emu + inp of that Icarus?

LSU · Post by **LSU** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:19 pm

I've been trying to play Garegga 'traditionally' for years, but my skills are nowhere up to it. (Hence you won't see me posting my scores here...) Best I ever managed was the end of stage 3 with one life, And then it just all fell apart from there.

Gungriffon Geona · Post by **Gungriffon Geona** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:03 am

I can make it about as far as stage 5 playing the game as I would gradius. dying once in such a place is downright scary. I made it as far as the blimp when the game finally decided it hated me and stole my credit.

As a note, I've never once seen a Batrider superplay to download anywhere. I really want to see one too, as the game has me in it's down-right evil grip.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:09 am

i think they're on this site:

http://www.mog-rep.net/

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:43 am

Bakraid: Possible. Just score like 0 points.
Garegga: Possible. Just fire like 0 bullets for 80% of the game and collect nothing but certain powerups.

Skyknight · Post by **Skyknight** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:34 pm

{sweatdrop} I meant while playing in a "normal" fashion (i.e. power-up when possible, destroy anything and everything that comes after you). My point was, one-life while enduring the highest rank the game contains.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:05 pm

Skyknight wrote:My point was, one-life while enduring the highest rank the game contains.

Offhand I'd doubt it...to go off to the side for a sec, one of the tip sheet thingies for Ibara said outright that if the game's rank got too high at certain spots it would become "impossible" (their word, not mine). I can only imagine the same more or less goes for Garegga and the rest.

Skyknight · Post by **Skyknight** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:11 am

...? As in, they never bothered to go back and see what was wrong with the highest rank (e.g. enemies turning out to be in the wrong position)? I'd think impossibility would classify as a bug...

How many ranks do the games have, anyway? 4? 5? 6? More?

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:35 am

Skyknight wrote:...? As in, they never bothered to go back and see what was wrong with the highest rank (e.g. enemies turning out to be in the wrong position)? I'd think impossibility would classify as a bug...

No, it's simply not to be played in that way. Battle Garegga is the most well-designed game I've ever played.

Gungriffon Geona · Post by **Gungriffon Geona** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:15 am

yeah, this is why trying to play Raizing in the traditional manner doesn't work, they make sure you play it in the way it's meant to be played. the games get quite literally impossible to beat trying to play carelessly. the rank system is made to make you try and keep away from that extremely high rank.
I did a test of this once actually. I turned invincibility on in Garegga and went through the whole game grabbing everything like I usually do. the game definitely wasn't meant to be played like this at all, as by the time I got to the next-to-last level, it was pretty much an undodgeable swarm of grey bullets. even further... the game was just plain crawling along from the lag I was getting from all the stuff on screen.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:19 am

Even without the number of bullets... Doesn't it get to the point where an aimed shot moves so fast that you can't move half your hitbox out of the way in time? I could be totally wrong, as I've not played very much of Garegga, but I do know a 1LC is pretty much impossible unless you do the pacifist thing =)

Gungriffon Geona · Post by **Gungriffon Geona** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:24 am

Arvandor wrote:Even without the number of bullets... Doesn't it get to the point where an aimed shot moves so fast that you can't move half your hitbox out of the way in time? I could be totally wrong, as I've not played very much of Garegga, but I do know a 1LC is pretty much impossible unless you do the pacifist thing =)

that's usually only true in the case of the bosses, where their shots do increase in speed and number after a good bit. even then, I don't think it gets THAT fast. there are a few enemies that have this little feature as well, but I've never taken much note of it.

Vincere · Post by **Vincere** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:08 pm

I tried it or fun. I managed to reach stage 6 with max power-up, in one life but the stage was like crazy ha ha. I lost my 6/7 lives in 2 minutes.

Skyknight · Post by **Skyknight** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:34 pm

I'm still trying to get my head around this. You make it sound like Raizing intends bombs and EXTRA LIVES to be offensive weapons, rather than failsafes in case you make a mistake. So where does that leave players who DON'T like to ride the ragged edge of disaster as a matter of course?!

I suppose the problem is that I'm still waiting for objective proof (e.g. press release) that Raizing intended for you to waste your one-ups...

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:41 pm

Skyknight wrote:So where does that leave players who DON'T like to ride the ragged edge of disaster as a matter of course?!

Playing something else, heh heh. The "Garegga style" of play is very unorthodox, and takes practice to get used to. It tends to rub people the wrong way at first, but once you have some concrete info to go by (though unfortunately we pretty much had to get it on our own, as Raizing offered almost none of that) it's less intimidating.

I suppose the problem is that I'm still waiting for objective proof (e.g. press release) that Raizing intended for you to waste your one-ups...

I'd suggest either checking out the Garegga ST in the Strategy forum (which includes a breakdown of exactly how the rank works), or watching a Garegga superplay video, you'll see the player constantly keeping his lives low and using his bombs almost entirely to score more points. Bakraid is a ways more lenient when it comes to letting you play "normally," but arguably even tougher to play for score (try a superplay of that one on for size).

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:42 pm

This is thread is galloping towards a rank debate...

Post by **Icarus** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:54 pm

freddiebamboo wrote:This is thread is galloping towards a rank debate...

Post by **nZero** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:19 pm

Skyknight wrote:So where does that leave players who DON'T like to ride the ragged edge of disaster as a matter of course?!

I tend to avoid pretty much all of the Raizing games aside from Soukyugurentai and maybe an occasional shot at Batrider in MAME. If I really feel the need to trade lives for playtime, I fire up Border Down.

At least Psikyo, Seibu, Warashi, etc. games are 1LC-able even if you force the rank up. Of course, the more transparent the ranking system, the better, Trizeal's lo-gear/hi-gear system irks me a bit.

freddiebamboo wrote:This is thread is galloping towards a rank debate...

Anyone got some of this?

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:32 pm

Skyknight wrote:I'm still trying to get my head around this. You make it sound like Raizing intends bombs and EXTRA LIVES to be offensive weapons, rather than failsafes in case you make a mistake. So where does that leave players who DON'T like to ride the ragged edge of disaster as a matter of course?!

I suppose the problem is that I'm still waiting for objective proof (e.g. press release) that Raizing intended for you to waste your one-ups...

Raizing offers leniency for mistakes while still keeping the game challenging. (This wasn't visible to most players until Gare-lab's rank information and research was exposed to them.)

Also, taking risks by intentionally using your ships and bombs as offensive scoring devices, limiting your supply, helps you prove that you don't make many mistakes. This isn't apparent to much of the people on this forum, but until Garegga suicides weren't part of the strategy of many shooting games.

(Raiden Fighters 2 is obviously heavily influenced by Garegga, once you get past the fact that it has no extends. Having to suicide both reserve lives to unlock secrets and help milking being one of the influences.)

(Another suicide influence is Under Defeat, but the influence is minimal as the score increase is about 5 to 10% in total overall for chucking both of your reserve lives to the first boss. The big bonus is keeping your bomb stock maxed, which keeps rank at high levels.)

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:20 am

The thing about Under Defeat though is that even on max rank it's a pretty wussy game, relatively speaking anyways -_^

Battle Garegga's rank rubbed me the wrong way pretty badly too, since even after understanding the rank, I didn't know enough about scoring to have any lives to burn up for rank management =/ Once I 1cc Dodonpachi (1st loop) and ESPgaluda I'll have to go back and give it a whirl ^_^

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Question to Garegga/Bakraid players

Question to Garegga/Bakraid players

Re: Question to Garegga/Bakraid players