Emulation Quality of Wii VC verses SNES R-Type III

[Jeffrey]

I just compared the emulation quality of R-Type III on the Wii Virtual Console, with the original R-Type III cart for the SNES.

I kept the cables comparible, and used composite for both, on a standard def CRT television. (I also have component for the Wii and s-video for the SNES). I would like to compare in s-video, but do not have Wii s-video on hand.

I went back and forth about 4 times, and spent about an hour at it, all on level 1. (I was trying to compare video/audio quality, not just playing the game.)

My opinion: the Wii console is very very good for a few dollars. It is maybe 90% of the video/audio quality of the original. Some of the colors are not as vibrant or are just different. Same for the audio. I felt the controller for the SNES was more direct and slighty quicker - but this could be a hallucination, since I might be biased toward the original, and I did not have a double blind test to perform. Over all the Wii console was very playable, but not quite the same in feel in very subtle ways. Not as sharp or precise, was my general feeling.

To really test this, we would need the games side by side, played in similar fashion. I did not do this, but had to rely on fallible memory.

Do others have the same reaction? I do not have a modded Xbox, although I have one on order. Is this what people generally find when they compare an emulation with the original?

This is my opinion only, not a scientific test.

[CecilMcW00t]

I am really satisfied with the emulation on the Wii so far. I was really disappointed with some retail versions of emulated games (like on the sega genesis collection). One example (not a shmup though) is Columns. The music does not play properly on that collection and is missing entire sections of the music. I downloaded it on the Virtual Console to see if it had the same problem. I was pleasantly surprised to see that this and the rest of the game were working how I remember them.

Some games do look a little washed out though. Like The Legend of Zelda. It is much darker from what I remembered.

[sven666]

. Some of the colors are not as vibrant or are just different. Same for the audio. I felt the controller for the SNES was more direct and slighty quicker

same as eeeevery other emulator i ever played then.. thanx for letting us know.

[Gydocker45]

Has Sega said anything about putting the Thunder Force series on the VC yet?

[Pixel_Outlaw]

How does Wii do old resolutions?

Does it chop the screen or simply blurr the screen into a hi res mess?

[FatCobra]

Yeah, I was curious about that, but I already have a Virtual Console: My laptop.

[ktownhero]

. Some of the colors are not as vibrant or are just different. Same for the audio. I felt the controller for the SNES was more direct and slighty quicker

Point is nil considering you can display these games with component video and 480p. Games look and play great. I would not go back to the originals even if I had them. As for controls, I find using the Classic Wii Controller or the Hori GC Pad to be superior to the original SNES controller. For a lot of NES/TG16/Gen games I just use the Wii Remote sideways, although admittedly the D-pad on the remote leaves a bit to be desired. It's still completely functional though.

[D]

. Some of the colors are not as vibrant or are just different. Same for the audio. I felt the controller for the SNES was more direct and slighty quicker

Point is nil considering you can display these games with component video and 480p. Games look and play great. I would not go back to the originals even if I had them. As for controls, I find using the Classic Wii Controller or the Hori GC Pad to be superior to the original SNES controller. For a lot of NES/TG16/Gen games I just use the Wii Remote sideways, although admittedly the D-pad on the remote leaves a bit to be desired. It's still completely functional though.

I don't think R-Type III is worthwile contendor for comparison.
I believe it runs at 30 FPS. I think this because it runs great on DC harware. I think you should compare F-Zero and Castlevania 4

[elvis]

SNES emulation will always fail when it comes to audio. The SNES had a nice analogue low-pass filter tacked on the back of it's audio DAC which made the sound that little bit more wonderful.

And analogue anything doesn't get emulated well. Go play any SNES game on a real console and compare it to an emulator, and you'll be left cringing from the audio. Metroid, Secret of Mana, even Mario 4 sound god-awful through an emulator.

TG16 and Megadrive (and consoles pre them) are a non-issue. Their sound hardware was all digital and trivial to emulate.

Graphics are neither here nor there for me. I don't like the eye-bleeding effects of interlaced pictures, but 480p mode is fine and I can put up with the blockiness of the upscaled graphics. Bad audio makes me just want to scream however.

[D]

SNES emulation will always fail when it comes to audio. The SNES had a nice analogue low-pass filter tacked on the back of it's audio DAC which made the sound that little bit more wonderful.

And analogue anything doesn't get emulated well. Go play any SNES game on a real console and compare it to an emulator, and you'll be left cringing from the audio. Metroid, Secret of Mana, even Mario 4 sound god-awful through an emulator.

TG16 and Megadrive (and consoles pre them) are a non-issue. Their sound hardware was all digital and trivial to emulate.

Graphics are neither here nor there for me. I don't like the eye-bleeding effects of interlaced pictures, but 480p mode is fine and I can put up with the blockiness of the upscaled graphics. Bad audio makes me just want to scream however.

Elvis, thanks for pointing that out. Sound IS underrated
I just love that Castlevania4 sound. I'm still looking for a Super Famicom with that game and an RGB cable The music is terrific.

[welcometoyourdoom]

Yeah, I was curious about that, but I already have a Virtual Console: My laptop.

He, he, me too! Sorry, Nintendo!

[nZero]

Commercial emulators always seem to be lazy on sound. I agree, it sucks.

SNES emulation will always fail when it comes to audio. The SNES had a nice analogue low-pass filter tacked on the back of it's audio DAC which made the sound that little bit more wonderful.

I find BSNES (full system emulator) and the final betas of SNESAmp (APU module emulator/.spc player) simulate the output of the SNES fairly competently. ZSNES and SNES9x and SNEeSe, though...

TG16 and Megadrive (and consoles pre them) are a non-issue. Their sound hardware was all digital and trivial to emulate.

Crappy op-amps, non-linear DACs, and the like tended to color the sound heavily. Especially in the case of the Genesis/Megadrive, even a half-deaf monkey could ABX any emulator against the console and get the right answer every time.

[FatCobra]

Yeah, I was curious about that, but I already have a Virtual Console: My laptop.

True...I don't have a laptop, but that is my biggest want after a 360 and PSP.

I have a good PC (small form factor case) that I plan to load with emus once I get a couple good game pads and a PC compatible arcade stick. It's gona replace my xbox as the emulation machine. However, a laptop would be more desirable because they can be brought anywhere.

Don't get too jealous of my laptop; it's a total piece of crap by today's standards; (800MHZ PIII, 256MB Ram), but it's got USB ports and can run most old-school emulators just fine.

[Thunder Force]

I don't think R-Type III is worthwile contendor for comparison.
I believe it runs at 30 FPS.

I thought R-Type III originally ran at 60 fps.

[hikarutilmitt]

Commercial emulators always seem to be lazy on sound. I agree, it sucks.

SNES emulation will always fail when it comes to audio. The SNES had a nice analogue low-pass filter tacked on the back of it's audio DAC which made the sound that little bit more wonderful.

I find BSNES (full system emulator) and the final betas of SNESAmp (APU module emulator/.spc player) simulate the output of the SNES fairly competently. ZSNES and SNES9x and SNEeSe, though...

I dunno, putting ZSNES at 32000 with stereo, surround and gaussian interpolation is pretty damned close, and I've bitched to high heaven about SNES9x having vastly inferior sound to ZSNES for years. I put my SNES alongside someone running the same game on SNES9x (nothing stood out more for me than Mega Man X, actually) and you could really hear the difference, whereas ZSNES with those settings was almost identical.

Now, I'm not bothering with games I have the cart for and I have a Linux box on the TV going through DVI anyway, but I'll still be downloading VC games I don't own simply because I'd like to pay money to have actual game hardware running the games and say I actually OWN them instead of running an emulator. I'm loving the VC so far and I've only got Super Star Soldier and Soldier Blade so far. The classic controller is SO nice to use and incredibly comfortable.

[D]

I don't think R-Type III is worthwile contendor for comparison.
I believe it runs at 30 FPS.

I thought R-Type III originally ran at 60 fps.

Could just be.
I believe it runs 30 because it runs so well on the emulator on the DC, while other games don't run so well.

[FatCobra]

Despite the fact that I have my laptop for my evil emulation needs, I do agree on the whole "running on actual hardware" bit. Although what I think you people mean is that you people feel better acquiring those retro games by paying for what is basically a ROM.

Don't get me wrong, emulation is great and all, but it feels so......lifeless and uninspired at times. I probably spend more time downloading the ROM then actually playing them. From what I heard, the VC is well polished and faithful to the original systems. I'm planning on getting a Wii someday anyway so I'll probably download a few games on the VC anyway (this includes R-Type III, never played it on the SNES, hopefully Gradius III will be available too).

I'm still new at this whole "pay for intangible data" thing. But Apple's making a killing with iTunes and modders have been hacking systems to emulate older games anyway for a while, so yay for Nintendo for the VC!
(At least I'm trying out all these ROMS to see which ones I wanna pay for when and if I get my Wii, plus Zelda looks enticing as well).

[Jeffrey]

Many people here clearly know much more about emulation than I do, but I wanted to see for myself. I will try R-Type 3 in SNES s-vid versus Wii Component (the software is similary priced for a bare SNES cart, and the SNES console is cheap) soon, since these are the best resolutions easily available on these systems for US residents.

Here is a link I found on www.pcenginefx.com comparing the PC-E originals with a Wii emulation. They confirm the blurriness I saw on Super Star Soldier. http://superpcenginegrafx.com/wii_video_temp.html

Overall, I think the Wii is a great machine, both the motion controller (I want to see a real House of the Dead version for the Wii!!!), and the virtual console. The emulations are pretty good and easy to obtain. But I was wondering if it was silly for me to have the old consoles and actual games, and it is not.

[elvis]

I dunno, putting ZSNES at 32000 with stereo, surround and gaussian interpolation is pretty damned close, and I've bitched to high heaven about SNES9x having vastly inferior sound to ZSNES for years. I put my SNES alongside someone running the same game on SNES9x (nothing stood out more for me than Mega Man X, actually) and you could really hear the difference, whereas ZSNES with those settings was almost identical.

Super Metroid, Contra, Super Mario World, Secret of Mana - try all these games side by side on real hardware and an emulator. Everything from the music to sound effects is just wrong wrong wrong.

Contra's explosion sounds are muffled and hi pitched, Mario's music is all wrong as is all of the Yoshi-related sfx, and Secret of Mana is just a wet lettuce leaf compared to the real cart on a real console and it's orchestral greatness.

Dno't get me wrong, I regularly fire up my SNES emulator when I'm on the road with a laptop or just plain lazy. But it makes me cringe to hear some of the emulated noise coming out of games where audio atmosphere meant so much to how the game was experienced.

I'm not a snob who refuses to use emulation, but I'm more than willing to acknowledge it's shortfalls.