Official Pink Sweets -Ibara Sorekara- thread (renamed)

[Frederik]

I agree with BulletMagnet on Stage 6 - enemies coming on screen from the all sides without warning is a bit lame, and it´s also an incredible long stage (I like the music very much, though). I also find the final boss fight pretty anti-climatic; as you said, more a test of endurance.

One particular sweet thing that is stuck in my head is that midboss from level 2, that shoots out long pointy bullets with the empty bullet shells pouring out from his back (like Bashinet in the Sky level in Batrider).

I am really wondering how this game will be handled in the long run. Given its unusual style it certainly will be a Cave underdog (much like Dangun Feveron which seems to repel many people because it has such an unique, untypical style). This being said, watching a superplay doesn´t say very much about how it plays.

And you can adjust ship speed on the fly? This plus the charge attack plus the downward-sweeping medals and powerups , the amount of destructable shmups make this game a very obvious homage to Recca (if you´ve play it, that is) - so it is a sequel to Ibara only in it`s storyline and Raizing-ness. Does Recca have extends? If not, this makes it even more obvious... I mean come on, a Raizing-style game without extends? There has to be something behind that.

[Icarus]

So the both of you expect/demand that all enemy waves come in from the very top of the screen at a speed that will make even snails and turtles fall asleep with boredom? Where's the fun in that? ^_-

Also, not every Raizing game has Extend limits set to a generous amount. One of Raizing's most difficult, Great Mahou Daisakusen, gives you only two extra Extends throughout the course of an incredibly difficult single loop game, and expert players will get those Extends long before the start of the third stage. Brave Blade only gives you one extra Extend. Pink Sweets is pretty generous with the extra lives by comparison.

[BulletMagnet]

So the both of you expect/demand that all enemy waves come in from the very top of the screen at a speed that will make even snails and turtles fall asleep with boredom? Where's the fun in that? ^_-

It's not where the enemies come from or how fast they come in, but rather the fact that you're given no warning of it (even Gradius Gaiden eventually managed to include a "Watch Your Back!" announcement once in awhile), and are thus doomed to die repeatedly until you memorize every last inch of the level. Which is especially unfortunate since Raizing's games, say whatever else you will about them, didn't throw that sort of garbage at you very often, and definitely not for an entire (long) stage...I'd give a similar pass to Cave if not for DP and Progear.

The extends I don't have much of a problem with, at least from what I know of the game after watching the replay, but where and how they appear seems kind of weird, almost random...has it been figured out exactly how to get them yet?

[Icarus]

The extends I don't have much of a problem with, at least from what I know of the game after watching the replay, but where and how they appear seems kind of weird, almost random...has it been figured out exactly how to get them yet?

Three have a fixed location (one on st3, on st5 and on st7), while the others have an appearance determined by a set of factors I'm still trying to make sense of. Something to do with the amount of enemies and destroyable bullets destroyed with Shot exceeding some determined amount (and possibly linked to the amount of enemies and bullets destroyed with the bomb).

[Frederik]

So the both of you expect/demand that all enemy waves come in from the very top of the screen at a speed that will make even snails and turtles fall asleep with boredom?

Yeah, this is what we want. TOTALLY.

[Icarus]

At least try to answer a comment properly, Fred.
(And eye-rolling is a really good way to get your point across. Not.)

By the way, near-unavoidable attacks appear in other games, not just Raizing ones. Quite a lot of the faster attack patterns and enemy waves throughout shmup history have required some foreknowledge, effectively changing a game's style from twitchy to memory-based. The most extreme attack forms appear in Psikyo games (instant hit lasers) with the mazey sections in R-Type/Gradius games being older examples of stage variants.

At least the section in question in Pink Sweets is very short and quite easy to deal with.

[BulletMagnet]

Three have a fixed location (one on st3, on st5 and on st7), while the others have an appearance determined by a set of factors I'm still trying to make sense of. Something to do with the amount of enemies and destroyable bullets destroyed with Shot exceeding some determined amount (and possibly linked to the amount of enemies and bullets destroyed with the bomb).

That sounds weird, even for Raizing...hopefully time will clarify things, since Cave's site doesn't even mention the 1Up item, so they're no help.

At least the section in question in Pink Sweets is very short and quite easy to deal with.

Maybe I need to watch the video again, but I recall enemies coming from all sides for most of the level, though they only charged in full tilt and en masse near the end.

(And eye-rolling is a really good way to get your point across. Not.)

Seriously. Every hot-under-the-collar indignant shmupper knows that a well-placed is the right way to go about it.

[Icarus]

Maybe I need to watch the video again, but I recall enemies coming from all sides for most of the level, though they only charged in full tilt and en masse near the end.

Yes, they do come in from all directions throughout stage6, but they move pretty slowly and some don't even fire. The only section that requires the use of a bomb to protect yourself is the fast enclosing pattern just before the boss (where the player drops a bomb and then hides in the explosion).

Seriously. Every hot-under-the-collar indignant shmupper knows that a well-placed is the right way to go about it.

Or a（￣へ￣）. (￣▽￣)

[BulletMagnet]

Yes, they do come in from all directions throughout stage6, but they move pretty slowly and some don't even fire.

Regardless, if you don't know where they're coming from ahead of time you're likely dead. Come on, I've been pretty nice to this game, I think I deserve at least one good unopposed kvetch.

[Icarus]

Regardless, if you don't know where they're coming from ahead of time you're likely dead. Come on, I've been pretty nice to this game, I think I deserve at least one good unopposed kvetch.

C'mon. ^_-

It's like seeing one of these coming towards you on the pavement:



Sure, if it hits you it could hurt, but it moves so slowly that by the time it gets anywhere near you, you'll be out of the way. ^_-

[BulletMagnet]

That's just it, you don't see it until it's right on top of you. If it actually beeped its horn you might have a fighting chance...stealth Vespas, on the other hand, are tricky devils.

[Frederik]

Regardless, if you don't know where they're coming from ahead of time you're likely dead. Come on, I've been pretty nice to this game, I think I deserve at least one good unopposed kvetch.

Forget it. Nobody will ever be able to fully understand and appreciate Raizing games like Icarus does. (No emoticon.)

[Icarus]

Forget it. Nobody will ever be able to fully understand and appreciate Raizing games like Icarus does. (No emoticon.)

（￣へ￣） （￣へ￣） （￣へ￣） （￣へ￣） （￣へ￣）

Freddie, baby, at least try to offer some kind of conversation like BM is. [Insert rolleyes emoticon x9000 here.]

That's just it, you don't see it until it's right on top of you. If it actually beeped its horn you might have a fighting chance...stealth Vespas, on the other hand, are tricky devils.

True. I guess Ksaumi does have a better advantage over the other selectable characters in that her Wide Shot is actually wide homing missiles, which can help in survival. The other ships can use their bombs though, or set their Options to something like Trace, Back or Wide to add extra coverage.

Hopefully there'll be one or two more full replays being released by the Japanese before interest in the game in Japan dies completely. (Still waiting to get my hands on the game, so don't expect anything from me besides speculation and systems analysis...)

[Frederik]

My point is that the part of stage 6 just before the boss appears, this wave of suiciding enemies comes straight at you. If you play that stage for the first time, you could only survive this by pure luck (or having watched other people playing it). It´s no big deal and I propably will never be playing this game, so nevermind. At least this stage shows what all this charge bomb playing is about - in constrast to the first two ones. It´s also the most exciting stage next to the desert/train one.

As I said, it´s not a big deal, but I have the feeling that you are defending this game against any criticism whatsoever. If someone calls a certain part unfair (which is a valid observation), you´re answering with sarcasm (bullets that put turtles to sleep). This is not very friendly towards the handful of people who are interested in this game and don´t say "this game sucks worst cave game ever music is shit and plastic robots are gay". We ARE discussing on a objective basis here, and when I conter sarcasm with sarcasm it´s totally fair. I consider myself as a pretty balanced player, not being biased towards Raizing or Cave (I play Batrider and Feveron with equal satisfaction), and am trying to look at games a bit deeper than some other people do. I feel that this game is something very special, being a mixture of Recca-homage and parody game, so I don´t think I am argumenting unobjectively here because I use an ironic statement once.

I appreciate your knowledge and play experience highly, but sometimes you are acting pretty aggressive if anyone talks about Raizing(styled) games in a non-euphoric manner.

Anyways - are there any vids of the score attack mode?

[Plasmo]

of course you need to play the stage (and all the others as well) a couple of times before you know whats going on.seriously what do you expect from a modern shmup stage 6???
these days all the later stages are harder and yes sometimes even unfair and i wouldnt call this stage 6 unfair.think of other cave stuff...guwange anyone?
wheres the fun if you survive everything the first time you play it?!

[Icarus]

My point is that the part of stage 6 just before the boss appears, this wave of suiciding enemies comes straight at you. If you play that stage for the first time, you could only survive this by pure luck (or having watched other people playing it). It´s no big deal and I propably will never be playing this game, so nevermind. At least this stage shows what all this charge bomb playing is about - in constrast to the first two ones. It´s also the most exciting stage next to the desert/train one.

And my point is that games throughout the genre's history have always given the player curveballs in particular areas. A fast wave of enemies appearing from all sides in the second-to-last-stage should not be a surprise to players experienced in the genre.

Granted, it is a bit unfair, but like all memory-based sections, once you experience it, you know when to prepare for it. Everyone has that advantage now of knowing that there is a drone rush section even before they get the chance to play it, simply because of the replays and the discussion. Whether or not players will be able to deal with it effectively is best left to practice.

As I said, it´s not a big deal, but I have the feeling that you are defending this game against any criticism whatsoever. If someone calls a certain part unfair (which is a valid observation), you´re answering with sarcasm (bullets that put turtles to sleep). This is not very friendly towards the handful of people who are interested in this game and don´t say "this game sucks worst cave game ever music is shit and plastic robots are gay".

LOL, whut? Perhaps you should learn to recognise the difference between a sharp sarcastic comment and a tongue-in-cheek one.

Anyways - are there any vids of the score attack mode?

http://b-board.rdy.jp/torrent/details.p ... b75166a769
(Invincibility switch on. Boss patterns are juggled in score attack mode.)

[jpj]

it's funny that you're arguing over this section - if you have both option pods and a weapon power-up, you can kill all of those enemies sat at the bottom middle of the screen holding A. incredibly easy. it just looks good because enemies are pouring in from all sides of the screen, but none of them will actually hit you

score attack lets you practice stage 6, and you get 5 mins counting down, and an extra minute on the clock for each million. i've only tried three runs, 2 with kasumi, and i got about 1.1 million - and i've only played through the stage a handful of times. i think stage 6 is possibly the biggest point-scoring stage, hence why it's in score attack mode, and very lengthy. think of it like stage 5a of radiant silvergun.

[Frederik]

The final boss music kicks butt all over the place. Reminds me a lot of early-90ies UK drum´n´bass/hardcore. I always have several tracks from Pink Sweets in my head all the time.

[icycalm]

My review of the game has been up for a while, and I would like to draw your attention to one point I made which hasn't been brought up here (at least I am fairly sure it hasn't, though I can't be bothered to read the whole thread a second time).

This brings me to the best aspect of Pink Sweets, which I kept for last. In addition to all its other virtues, this is the most fun two-player shooter action I've had since the coming of the bullet hell subgenre more or less killed that aspect in shooting games. I've already noted that Ibara was also rather enjoyable with two players, but this is another thing altogether. In contrast to Ikeda's games, where the constant torrent of bullets makes co-op play a cruel joke, the rampant bullet-cancelling in Pink Sweets provides ample room on-screen for both players to manoeuvre, and coordinating your bomb attacks with those of your friend opens up a whole new dimension of strategy. Trying out different combinations of ships is also endless fun.

http://insomnia.ac/reviews/custom/pinksweets/review.php

There's a 2-player video on that page, which I recommend everyone interested in this game should watch.

[Plasmo]

great review! thanks!

[Frederik]

Yeah, it really has a lot of good points and excellent observations, especially in how the boss battles are more like turn-based memorizers, and how shmups in arcades can be neglected very quickly if they fail to grab peoples attention very quicky, in constrast to console releases.

The only thing I miss is that you didn´t mention the score attack mode (as Recca did), which gives the game even more oldschool-flavour (this and the lighthearted soundtrack connects it with Dangun Feveron, which also has a very retro style to it, looking at the Toaplan-styled graphics).

Anyways, after reading your review I finally seem to see what this game is all about, why it is treated so badly in arcades, and what makes it so tasty. I am looking forward to play it in MAME when I am old and grey

[icycalm]

Thanks for your nice comments guys.

Frederik, the reason I didn't mentioned score attack was because it was revealed after I had stopped playing the game, and moved on to Mushi Futari. Next time I am in Japan I'll give it a go and update the review.

I am looking forward to play it in MAME when I am old and grey

And yeah, it's a damn shame with the current port situation. Three new great Cave games and no ports yet -- and it's not as if the previous ports were not successful. And what we get instead is a bunch of ports of mediocre Naomi shooters. There is no justice in this world.

[agony]

today the good postman handed me over the pink sweets ost

just awesome!

"Canzone Di Amore Di Ross - IBALOVE☆SONG - (Pink Sweets Image Song)" is probably the best song I have ever heard on a shump ost album :]

[Macaw]

Anyone found any vids on the net of a player that actualy medals? Every single video I have seen so far the players avoid all medals to keep rank from going crazy and its so damn frustrating to watch. I'm not expecting a super pro replay, just a vid of someone trying to keep a medal chain.

[EOJ]

No, I haven't seen any vids where the player really medals. The top scores must be doing this though.

I'm sending in my payment for my brand new Pink Sweets PCB kit in a few days, so I should have the kit in about 2 weeks. I'll try my best to medal through it and let you guys know how it is.

[Icarus]

Shame you aren't recording. I'd actually like to compare a medalling run with the two non-medalling replays already available and see the difference in rank increase.

[EOJ]

Hmm. I just read in the October issue of Arcadia (they have some strategy pages for stage 7 there) a little blurb about how there is a major glitch (?) in this game: once you get 5 lives, you can die over and over and your life stock doesn't go down, it stays at 5! Apparently many Japanese gamers have stopped playing the game due to this, saying an All Clear in the game is an empty feeling. I wonder if the last batch of PCBs produced has this fixed? I also wonder if the high scores in Japan have been done using this infinite life glitch??

I also wonder if this is NOT a glitch, and it's something Yagawa programmed on purpose?

[Macaw]

If that is a glitch, then how on earth could the testers have missed it !?

[NTSC-J]

Hmm. I just read in the October issue of Arcadia (they have some strategy pages for stage 7 there) a little blurb about how there is a major glitch (?) in this game: once you get 5 lives, you can die over and over and your life stock doesn't go down, it stays at 5! Apparently many Japanese gamers have stopped playing the game due to this, saying an All Clear in the game is an empty feeling. I wonder if the last batch of PCBs produced has this fixed? I also wonder if the high scores in Japan have been done using this infinite life glitch??

I also wonder if this is NOT a glitch, and it's something Yagawa programmed on purpose?

Sounds like this is the glitch I saw some months back. A guy had 5 lives in stock then died at least 20 times in the final level without getting docked. The game froze not long afterwards, so I doubt this was intentional on the programmers part. Pretty sloppy on Cave's part, they need to slow down and stop giving us unfinished products.

[EOJ]

Yeah, but apparently many people have cleared the game with the glitch, not having the game freeze.

People on 2ch have mentioned repeatedly that there is a bug fixed Pink Sweets that fixes the game crashes. I'm pretty sure if there really were bug-fixed Pink Sweets boards produced, the one I'm ordering will be one of those (as it's one of the last dozen available through Cave's distributor).

I guess this is easy to test, as soon as I figure out how to get 5 extends in a row without dying, I'll let you know.