Your opinions on the lower tier Saturn shooters

[Arvandor]

Well, I'm getting to that point where I have all the Saturn shooters I know I want (minus a few titles, that I at least KNOW I want ^_^). I'm curious as to what people think of the titles not so frequently mentioned whenever Saturn shmups come up in conversation. Things like Gekirindan, Guardian Force, Fantasy Zone, and Metal Black(keeping in mind I'm not huge on horizontals). Things like that.

[BulletMagnet]

Having played 3 of the 4 you mentioned offhand...

Gekirindan

Nice graphics, otherwise thoroughly mediocre at best. Supposedly the Saturn port has some issues (I forget exactly what); I just got it included on the Taito Memories compilation (though it lacks tate mode and the proper resolution). The same single tune is "remixed" for every stage. Some people find it endearing for some reason, though I'm not among that number.

Guardian Force

Presentation is "functional" to put it nicely, and there's not much happening in terms of modes and whatnot, though shooting in all directions with the tank is easy to get the hang of and fun: a pretty nice weapon selection too. Includes a Raizing-esque "Medaling" system too. No one else that I can remember has mentioned this, but I find the play control to be on the quick side, which can make dodging through tight patterns a pain.

Metal Black

Great, unique presentation, and serves as a predecessor to G Darius and Border Down with its "Limited Use Beam o' Death," but you've got stuff coming at you from all sides and you can only shoot frontwards, which means lots o' frustrating deaths. Another one that's available on one of the PS2 compilations, though the Saturn version, IIRC, got a "SataKore" re-release, which might be a bit cheaper.

[stratos]

Ok, the titles I know are Gekirindan and Metal Black. I don't have the Saturn versions, but the Taito legends 2 ones, so I can't talk about the quality of the ports, but I can tell you something about gameplay and other aspects of the games themselves.


So, about Gekirindan, I really like the graphics, the bright colors, the style, they are not good as Layer section but the quality is good. What is really bad in this game is the pace and the difficulty: both too low.


The game is solw, and the low difficulty doesn't help, so you risk to find yourself sleeping and to awake in front of the credits roll, after you 1cc the game


It's only a personal thought, but I have really to say that I didn'tr like the game, even if it's playable and has a good overall quality, pheraphs ti's good for beginner players, so, if you are one buy it, otherwise stay back.


Speaking about Metal Black, it is one ov the most controversial games ever published, someone loves it, someone hates it.


It's very similar to Gradius games, but here you have a different powerup system: in certain areas you'll encounter a huge quantity of flying particels (yes, flying prticels ), if you pick them up you willl power up your shot, that becomes stronger and wider, very useful to hit enemies above or below; if you press the B button you unleash a very powerful Taitoish power beam (tm) , that can be changed into a splitted lightning attack; while active, the super attack slowly depletes your power meter to the end, so, attack finished, you'll find yourself with your normal shot unpowered.


Basically, the gam it's all about memorizing patters like in Gradius, but you hav also to manage well your powerbeam attacks: if you use them in the wrong moments, you'll find yourself unpowered and overcome by enemies. You can also use the beam attack to engage epic duels Dragonball Z style with bosses that beam at you, so you shoul'd manage this attackl even in boss fights.


I have to say that I really enjoy this gameplay mechanics and really like the game. The musics written by Zuntata fit perfectly with the action, and are very elgantly arranged as ever. The graphics aren't gorgeous technically speaking, but the style it's really good and elegant once more.


Some people say the difficulty in this game it's a bit unbalanced, but I found it wella balanced, so, different points of view, but even if the difficulty were a little unbalanced, the solid strategical gameplay, the atmosphere and the playability made this an istant Taito classic, from my point of view.


If you want to try it before you buy, pick up MAME and play some credits.


And sorry for my poor grammar, I don't speak English currently


Hope I have helped you, bye bye

[Arvandor]

Hey thanks guys ^_^ It sounds like once I get my tax return and raid the hell out of japangamestock I'll be basically done with my Saturn shmups. Aside from Blast Wind and Hyper Duel, which are too easy and too horizontal, respectively, and also expensive. I could get over either of the initial flaws, since they're both really good games, if not for the price. For example, I LOVE Border Down, one of the few non-cute 'em up horis that I really REALLY like, but if I hadn't picked it up for $45 a few years ago, I'd NEVER get it now at its current going rate.

[stratos]

I'm glad you enjoyed our little review


I'll definitely buy Border Down and RSG even if they are so expansive, becaus from what I saw of them, I shoul'd really like, and plus I shouldn't have problem to resell them, just in case.


Border Down features the beloved Taito super beam itself and it's inspired to many older Taito shmups, like Metal Black itself

[Ayanami]

I think Gekirindin is a fun little game. It is slow moving and does have some graphical problems, but it is good IMO. Just nothing spectacular.

I would go with Guardian Force first, that is a great little shooter and is a lot of fun 2 player. My only gripe is some times the bullets can be small, and your tank can book it like no tomorrow. I also like what the game does with environment and what not. Be warned though, there are parts of the game where it will be vertical but then switch to horizontal. It kinda goes in many different directions through out the game.

I am one of those guys that do not like Metal Black at all. Download MAME for sure and try it first. You may love it, you may hate it. From what I hear there is no in between.

[NTSC-J]

Hey thanks guys ^_^ It sounds like once I get my tax return and raid the hell out of japangamestock I'll be basically done with my Saturn shmups.

I would strongly recommend not getting your games at japangamestock, they're all hideously over-priced. I can get all of the ones you mentioned for half of what they're charging and in better shape. I mean, $515 for Radiant Silvergun? For real?

As far as the quality of the shooters you mentioned, personally I found them all forgettable but they're all at least decent.

[BulletMagnet]

I would strongly recommend not getting your games at japangamestock, they're all hideously over-priced.

Some of their stuff is way up there, though other items are actually pretty good deals, I snagged a bunch of puzzlers from them awhile back for a fair price. You've really got to run a fine-tooth comb through their lists o' games, though...they're also a bit vague on condition, though nothing I got was too bad.

[NTSC-J]

You're right, I thought the prices were in pounds but they're not, so they're really not that bad. Radiant Silvergun is only 230 which isn't the worst I've seen. Pink Godzilla in Seattle charges 500 for their "sealed" copy, yet as far as I know there have been no takers.

[Arvandor]

Wow, their copy of RSG IS extremely overpriced. $234 US? Oy. A lot of the stuff I've found there usually compares with going ebay rates. Prikura Daisakusen for $20 (without calendar), Cotton 2 for $40, Assault Suit Leynos 2 and Necronomicon for $15 each, Dodonpachi for $38, Vampire Savior for $18 etc. And near as I can tell, all the titles I'm planning on picking up with my tax return, are quite reaonsable in price, and I've never had an issue with quality, despite their vague listings of it.

If you know of better/comporable sites though, I'd love to hear about 'em ^_^ The ones I know of are (and most are even more overpiced than japangamestock)

ncsx.com
japangamestock.com
yamatoku.jp
videogameimports.com (truly overpriced... just wow)
play-asia.com
wolfgames.com (EXTREMELY small selection, decent to good prices... Dodonpachi: Daioujou complete with bonus DVD, in good condition, and for $45 shipped? YOINK!)

[shinsage]

Hyper Duel, which are ... too horizontal

haha, what?

I know jp hates Planet Joker with a passion, but after looking at screens, I'm tempted.

Geki and MB are great, Guardian Force is merely OK. I can't remember how it sounded, but I know the Pulp Fiction song is in there.

[Arvandor]

I'm not a big fan of horizontal shooters =P Border Down, Gradius 5, and cute 'em ups (Cotton 2, Parodius games) being the only exceptions I've found so far.

[Macaw]

Gekirinden I think is a game with a lot of charm. Nowhere near as spectacular as taito's previous vert effort Rayforce, but still good enough, and has a soundtrack that causes crazy relaxation.

[jp]

Uh... Blast Wind isn't horizontal... its vertical.


And Hyper Duel isn't that easy. The level 6 boss on would attest to that.


And why are we calling Hyper Duel lower tier? Its one of the pinnacles of the Saturn library.


Stay the hell away from Planet Joker. I warn you. Its bad. Its really really bad. For the final boss the camera is behind you. Imagine playing a 2D shooter from an over-the-shoulder perspective.

Not to mention that the rest of the game just sucks.

Anything else I have to say about teh Satty and its library can be found in the link below (that I haven't updated since getting about 5 more shmups, heh).

[Kaiser]

Uh... Blast Wind isn't horizontal... its vertical.


And Hyper Duel isn't that easy. The level 6 boss on would attest to that.


And why are we calling Hyper Duel lower tier? Its one of the pinnacles of the Saturn library.


Stay the hell away from Planet Joker. I warn you. Its bad. Its really really bad. For the final boss the camera is behind you. Imagine playing a 2D shooter from an over-the-shoulder perspective.

Not to mention that the rest of the game just sucks.

Anything else I have to say about teh Satty and its library can be found in the link below (that I haven't updated since getting about 5 more shmups, heh).

I agree with jp about hyper duel's difficulty, 6th boss is not easy to take down really last time i lost one-two lifes thanks to him because he shoots many bullets

[Arvandor]

Uh... Blast Wind isn't horizontal... its vertical.


And Hyper Duel isn't that easy. The level 6 boss on would attest to that.

Sorry, I worded my post wrong. I should have said they're "each" those two qualities respectively, not "both," Since I meant Blast Wind is too easy, and Hyper Duel is too horizontal -_^

And why are we calling Hyper Duel lower tier? Its one of the pinnacles of the Saturn library.

You missed it. I didn't refer to Blast Wind or Hyper Duel as low tier. I said "I'll be basically done with my Saturn shmups. Aside from Blast Wind and Hyper Duel,". Which means, they're titles I'd like to get, but due to pricing, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

Stay the hell away from Planet Joker. I warn you. Its bad.

Don't worry, I know ^_^ It doesn't make my friend quite as angry as Virtual Hydlide, aka "the game that shall not be named," but it's up there close with it. So I know that the best thing to do with Planet Joker is hit it with a flamethrower from max distance.

[jp]

My bad bro! I completely misunderstood ya!

On Blast Wind's easiness:
Blast Wind isn't easy per se, its just that the 1P ship is stupid powerful. The game is a bit more difficult if you play as the 2P ship. Also, there's always a difficulty setting!!! I wish the HS thread had a 2P ship board and a max difficulty section though.

*wonders if he made the BW HS thread*

That would be funny.

[stratos]

I wish the HS thread had a 2P ship board and a max difficulty section though.

So, open a new BW thread

[J-Manic]

Blast Wind isn't easy per se, its just that the 1P ship is stupid powerful. The game is a bit more difficult if you play as the 2P ship.

If I wanted to play as the 2P ship in Bast Wind, all I would have to do is place my controller in the 2P controller port. Is this correct? Or is there another way?

[Arvandor]

It's ok Jp... Misunderstanding is common enough normally, let alone on the internet where all you get is text (quite often with horrible spelling, grammar, and punctuation... I know I'm guilty of it too), and none of the other communication cues. ^_^

Yeah, I'd still like to pick up Blast Wind, and if I do I'll definitely have to mess with the other ship and/or the difficulty. Though, price is still the biggest issue. I felt RSG was worth it after playing my friend's copy, but... Will BW be worth the $100+ pricetag? I don't know, and am not sure if I'm willing to find out. Even if I could theoretically sell it back for the same amount, since I most certainly wouldn't, even if I didn't like it. I'm just a pack rat that way.

For most games you just use the controller in the player 2 port. When I play Under Defeat I usually stick the controller into player 2 port, since green > red and Welhilmine is hotter than whoever the other chick is -_^

[jp]

Blast Wind isn't easy per se, its just that the 1P ship is stupid powerful. The game is a bit more difficult if you play as the 2P ship.

If I wanted to play as the 2P ship in Bast Wind, all I would have to do is place my controller in the 2P controller port. Is this correct? Or is there another way?

This is correct good sir. Though you have to get past the "Press Start" screen with 1P. They also keep a seperate High Score for the red ship!


If you guys want to read the reviews (like, real reviews, not the stuff I put on my ancient angelfire site) I did for Hyper Duel and Blast Wind they are here:
Blast Wind: http://sestren.com/php/viewtopic.php?t=1536
Hyper Duel: http://sestren.com/php/viewtopic.php?t=1634

They're not the best written reviews ever, but there's lots of pretty pictures.

[jp]

Blast Wind is worth $100+ now?


Last I checked it hadn't hit triple figure status yet. Damn. Thats nutty. Its a damn rare game though, this is for sure.

[Arvandor]

Haha, needs a log in ^_^

I've seen replays, if anything, so the pretty pictures won't do me a whole lot of good. Perhaps I'll just keep an eye out, and if I can get either of them for under say $80 or so, I'll pounce on it. I was patient with RSG, I could be even more patient for these. Especially with how many shooters I have that don't get much play as is. And with the half dozen or so I'll be picking up soon? Yeah, it's no biggie. I was really just curious as to whether or not I should bother with Metal Black, Gekirindan, and others like that, and I now know my answer.

Though, I am curious about Kingdom Grand Prix. My friend says it's freaking awesome, but the only other thing I've heard about it (via jp's collection page thing), was kinda mediocre.

[jp]

It needs a login!?!?!?!?!?! Are you sure? 'Cause I can fix that.


Edit: Damn, I guess it does. Thats retarded. Alright, lemme' go yell at the admin guy.

Edit2: Alright, should be fixed by sometime tomorrow. Gah.

[The Coop]

When did Blast Wind become rare? I bought it used, complete and in great shape from a store a few years back for $25. In short, wtf?


Gekirindan- Fun game. It's not particularly original, but it's done well. The graphics are good, as are the tunes and the challenge level, but it feels like bits of quite a few other shmups put together to make a "new" one. Still, if you can find it for a reasonable price, chances are you'll enjoy it. It's on the Taito Legends 2 compilation, which can be found pretty cheap for the PC on eBay should the Saturn version be too much.

Fantasy Zone- Get it. It's bright and colorful, with music that was obviously the inspiration for the Sonic games with its upbeat and catchy tunes. But underneath that kiddy-looking skin, is a challenging little shmup. Cutesy? Yep. Lower tier? Not by any means.

Metal Black- This game's got some style. Graphically, it's quite nice. Musically, Zuntata does a fine job. Gameplay-wise, it's challenging without getting too cheap. The graphical style is interesting and nicely detailed, and at times, feels like a Darius offshoot, as some of the bosses look like they'd fit right into that series (mechanized sea life). It also packs a good challenge into its stage design and ship/boss patterns, without ever giving you a "this is hopeless" feeling.

You might not be keen on horizontal shmups, but don't let this one go by. It too, is on the Taito Legends 2 pack.

[shinsage]

Will BW be worth the $100+ pricetag?

There are very few games worth $100+.
Blast Wind is not one of them.
$15 Layer Section is a better game than whatever amount Blast Wind goes. I got mine for around $70, it wasn't worth that but I don't regret buying it.

I'm surprised at hearing BW becoming rare, too.
You'd think a game like Crows would hit triple digits before BW (or maybe that has too).

[jp]

Blast Wind has been "rare" for a few years now (2-3). Rather, at least for people that don't have access to Akihabara. Granted, I bought mine mint/complete for $35... so...

Granted, I'm yet to see Blast Wind go for $100+. I know Hyper Duel fluctuates between $120-180 though.


Crows: The Battle Action for Sega Saturn hit triple figures a long time ago. It goes for $120-150 now pending on condition. So yeah, it hit triple figures before Blast Wind. I think Blast Wind was still going back and worth between $25-70 when Crows hit triple figures.

[Arvandor]

I've seen Blast Wind break $100. Granted, it USUALLY stays around the $70-$100 range, but still... I get the impression it's not worth that much unless from a collector's standpoint, which I am most definitely not.

I'll have to look into Fantasy Zone. It got good word from jp too, even though he and I differ ever so slightly on taste (I love Cave, and... tolerate Psikyo -_^)

[jp]

I'll have to look into Fantasy Zone. It got good word from jp too, even though he and I differ ever so slightly on taste (I love Cave, and... tolerate Psikyo -_^)

Hey! I gave Dodonpachi a B.

Na, I dunno. Aside from Mars Matrix I haven't really liked any of the non-doujin manics I've played. Didn't like Shikigami no Shiro, don't like Cave... dunno what other manics I've played.

[Arvandor]

Hey! I gave Dodonpachi a B

Yes, which is just a tribute to how incredibly awesome the game is. It's honestly my favorite shooter that isn't Radiant Silvergun.

Na, I dunno. Aside from Mars Matrix I haven't really liked any of the non-doujin manics I've played. Didn't like Shikigami no Shiro, don't like Cave... dunno what other manics I've played.

SnS was kind of meh to me as well, but when I realized that SnS2 is basically the best "buzz" shooter I've ever played, its appeal rose a considerable amount. For when I'm in the mood for that kind of thing. Besides Battle Garegga (which I'm not a big fan of, bloody ranking system... Actually, see next paragraph for this, I have another question), you listed all the non-Cave manics that I've played, and I liked all of them (except Garegga, and to an extent SnS). Mars Matrix (my second of two 1cc's -_^) and doujins. I really do like Cave though. Mushihime sama is pretty good. Ibara is kinda meh from what I've played of it (very little, granted), but I really love the Dodonpachi games and ESPgaluda.

Ok, for that Battle Garegga question. I decided to give Garegga a try for a few days, and really decided I wasn't going to be able to get into this rank thing, and how stupid good you had to be at scoring to be able to have enough lives to manage rank. Then I read somewhere that most people change some of the default settings? Like make sure it's in "Japanese mode" or something like that? Is this accepted as default? Is there something either than default that everyone plays it on? Because if so, and if it changes things much as far as extra life gains, I may give this game another whirl. Maybe I should make a new thread on this, but I know how the mods are about certain topics, and Garegga rank threads are one of them.