WTF?!!!!!! My 360 just died...

[dave4shmups]

Fuck backwards compatability, seriously. Anyone who can afford a 360 sure as hell can afford a used Xbox. It's an absolute waste of everyones effort. The Wii only manages Gamecube games because it IS a Gamecube more or less, and the VC stuff is emulation of comparably simple consoles.

The Wii is more powerfull then a Game Cube, I could see that clearly when I played one. And that doesn't account for the fact that Sony was able to get all but about 2 or 3 PS1 games working on the PS2.

Besides which but how many people want to fit both consoles in their apartments? Unless you own a house, that's a lot of room taken up in an entertainment center of any kind. And as far as a waste of effort goes, how much do you think people would even be talking about a Virtual Console had Nintendo bothered to make a converter that allowed SNES owners to play their NES games with??

[dave4shmups]

And then there's the durability issue-Nintendo makes more durable hardware; is there some good reason why Sony and MS can't do the same??

[Strider77]

Fuck backwards compatability, seriously. Anyone who can afford a 360 sure as hell can afford a used Xbox. It's an absolute waste of everyones effort.

I have to strongley disagree with this. It's very convienent 1st off and second, all those xbox games look fantastic in HD. It's very BIG improvement. Ninja Gaiden looks awsome this way and so does the new splinter cell (double agent). I really want to see otogi 1/2 and outrun 2/sp. It's a really nice bonus to say the least.

[mannerbot]

And then there's the durability issue-Nintendo makes more durable hardware; is there some good reason why Sony and MS can't do the same??

Well, Nintendo's not exactly breaking any barriers technologically so I think it makes sense that they're able to make more durable consoles offered at far lower prices than the competition while still actually pulling a profit on hardware. There really isn't any good reason why every manufacturer can't produce reliable hardware though.

[dave4shmups]

And then there's the durability issue-Nintendo makes more durable hardware; is there some good reason why Sony and MS can't do the same??

Well, Nintendo's not exactly breaking any barriers technologically so I think it makes sense that they're able to make more durable consoles offered at far lower prices than the competition while still actually pulling a profit on hardware. There really isn't any good reason why every manufacturer can't produce reliable hardware though.

True, well back OT, I do feel sorry for anyone who has a console die on them, regardless of which console or how much it cost.

I really do hope that the 360 becomes more durable. In terms of games, for me, it's 360, Wii, and then PS3.

But in terms of durability, simply because we have more modern and complex cars, for example, and not Ford Model T's, does not mean that we shouldn't expect long-term durabilty from them. So it is that just because we have the 360 and PS3, and not the 2600 anymore, does not mean that we as consumers should not expect the same level of durability. It's simply laziness and cheapness on the part of console manufactures, the same as it is with backwards compatibility.

And yeah, someone who can afford a 360 can afford a used XBOX, but not eveyone who has an XBOX can afford to upgrade to a 360. Again, having both in one house, apartment, whatever, would take up plenty of space. Backwards compatibilty comes down to convenience, and for a 360 owner not to be able to play games on their 360 like Sega GT 2002, JSRF, and Orta is flat out ridiculous.

[Thunder Force]

To keep this interesting thread alive, note there are now a variety (one, two, three, four) of Xbox 360 cooling peripherals available, to facilitate operation of 360s in warmer climates with less crashes.

Some like the Nyko intercooler is cheaply manufactured (much like the 360 itself, really), and make the console sound as loud as a PC, but the products seem to be improving (the Nyko one is now on a revision 2 which fixes a few safety issues with the original design).

[Endymion]

It is not cooling issues or overheating that has caused early 360s to go red-ringed. It is a manufacturing defect. It is not a defect in parts or chips. It is rather a defect in assembly. If you know what a cold solder joint is, there you go. The most common scenario has been a cold-soldered GPU. This happens when a solder point or pin is not heated well before the solder is applied. The joint is weak and simple use will cause stress upon it, expanding and contracting the metal until it breaks over time. This is why so many of the 360s only pooped out after +/- one year. Mine did as well. Microsoft handled it superbly, sent out a prepaid box and shipped it back to me in about 9 days.

This is more understandable than some hardware problems as it was caused by hasty manufacturing. Don't think for a moment Sony didn't crank out PS3s as quick as they could. You may see something similar over the course of the next year with that system, it is very young yet and I have found it gets even hotter than my 360, especially if it is resting horizontal--all its heat builds up somewhere underneath the BluRay drive. Everybody warned against setting the PS2 vertical to keep the laser assembly aligned and the motor in shape, but it looks like the PS3 really needs to be on its side.

[dave4shmups]

It is not cooling issues or overheating that has caused early 360s to go red-ringed. It is a manufacturing defect. It is not a defect in parts or chips. It is rather a defect in assembly. If you know what a cold solder joint is, there you go. The most common scenario has been a cold-soldered GPU. This happens when a solder point or pin is not heated well before the solder is applied. The joint is weak and simple use will cause stress upon it, expanding and contracting the metal until it breaks over time. This is why so many of the 360s only pooped out after +/- one year. Mine did as well. Microsoft handled it superbly, sent out a prepaid box and shipped it back to me in about 9 days.

This is more understandable than some hardware problems as it was caused by hasty manufacturing. Don't think for a moment Sony didn't crank out PS3s as quick as they could. You may see something similar over the course of the next year with that system, it is very young yet and I have found it gets even hotter than my 360, especially if it is resting horizontal--all its heat builds up somewhere underneath the BluRay drive. Everybody warned against setting the PS2 vertical to keep the laser assembly aligned and the motor in shape, but it looks like the PS3 really needs to be on its side.

Good points; the PS3 hasn't really been out long enough to tell about defects, although I've only heard of PS3's being returned now that people realize they can't make a grand off them on Ebay.

AFIK, Microsoft has fixed the power brick heating issue and you can now buy 360's that don't have this issue. Plus, IIRC, Microsoft has had a much better customer service record then SCEA.

[GateofThunderforceIII]

Thanks for the indo, Endymion. But I've heard of way too many people having multiple problems with the same unit and having to send it back to Microsoft time and time again. I just sent mine Tuesday, and I'm expecting to be doing the same thing when it croaks again. Or maybe not...my warrantly ran out the day it died. Maybe the technicians are not re-soldering them any better than the assembly robots?

[Arznei]

My 360 died. On an IRC channel I frequent I know of 3 other people with dead machines.

I am completely and utterly convinced not to purchase one now.

[Franz the Stampede]

Well, all cartridges consoles are obviously more durable than disc consoles, cartridges do not have any mechanic part that will tend to wear out with use.

This said, my Sega Saturn is still working after 10 years and thousands of hours of play time...

[dave4shmups]

Well, all cartridges consoles are obviously more durable than disc consoles, cartridges do not have any mechanic part that will tend to wear out with use.

This said, my Sega Saturn is still working after 10 years and thousands of hours of play time...

IMO, that's because Sega and Nintendo acutally give (or gave, in Sega's case) a crap about making their consoles durable; disc based or not. I would have absolutely no hesitation about buying a new Nintendo console for that reason.

[Battlesmurf]

Sorry to hear that. I just bought my JP X360 a few weeks ago, and so far it's been fine (the manufactured date is 6-Oct-06). I'll be pissed if that dies because since it's a JP console, there's no warranty coverage for me in the USA!

So- I've heard at some point that J 360's are now covered over here? How close to BS is that? I'm curious : )

[Strider77]

BC on the 360 is very useful..... seeing those games in HD is quite a jump visually. I can see why folks want it.

I have a modded xbox for my older games but I'd love to be able to play otogi 1, 2 and metal wolf chaos in HD. They still look great in 480p, but it'd be even nicer with true HD res.

I have a friend that I can confirm got her japanese 360 replaced by MS in the US.

I had her mention nothing about the fact it was japanese 1st, just gave the serianl number and then they set up the repair ect.

Afterwards I had her tell them to make a note that it was a japanese console and that she'd like it replaced with another of the same region. She got one back and it was indeed japanese and a DIFFERENT console from the original.

[Udderdude]

Extended warantee is nice, but I have a feeling if a 360 died on me, I'd be so pissed off from having to package the thing up and send it back off to MS that I'd not even want to bother buying one in the first place :/

[stuntman]

I have a friend that I can confirm got her japanese 360 replaced by MS in the US.

I had her mention nothing about the fact it was japanese 1st, just gave the serianl number and then they set up the repair ect.

Afterwards I had her tell them to make a note that it was a japanese console and that she'd like it replaced with another of the same region. She got one back and it was indeed japanese and a DIFFERENT console from the original.

I think this is a lot less likely to happen in Europe, as we usually get a rougher deal.

Anyway, I ordered a Jap 360 yesterday from play-asia, and I've already acquired a UK 240V power supply (rather than use a step-down converter). When it arrives I'll give it a quick test, then I intend to modify it straight away. I've been reading about how the x-clamp replacement mod seems to fix many RROD 360's for varying lengths of time, and I figure it might be worth doing as a preventative measure rather that wait for problems to occur. From what I can gather, the standard GPU/CPU heatsink retaining mechanism (x-clamp) causes the the motherboard to flex during the cold-hot-cold-hot cycle which causes the GPU/CPU solder joints to weaken then break. If I can prevent that from happening, I might get lucky and have a reliable 360! Yes, I probably am being paranoid, but I'm pretty certain the warranty for a Jap 360 will be worthless in the UK, and I'd rather not wait to find out

[dave4shmups]

Extended warantee is nice, but I have a feeling if a 360 died on me, I'd be so pissed off from having to package the thing up and send it back off to MS that I'd not even want to bother buying one in the first place :/

My thoughts exactly, and there's still no way to tell how durable the model you're getting is. I asked on a section of the Atari Age forums, and you can't even tell by the power supply:

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.ph ... 123038&hl=

I can definitely see why people would want one; there are a lot of great games for the 360-of that, there's no doubt. But MS's "screw 'em, we gave 'em a 3-year warranty" attitude doesn't fly with me. They won't even comment on defect rates, which, if they are lower (which they should be by now) would do a lot to raise consumer confidence in the system.

I'd wait until the 720 is announced; the last model of XBOX's were very durable, and didn't have the dreaded Thompson drive in them.