Proof that I'm the worst shmup player of all time.

atro_city · Post by **atro_city** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:58 pm

I recorded a video of me trying to get as far as I could in Raiden. Only afterwards did I feel the need to create this topic:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XrIo4G6SM8o

That really was my best effort. The sad thing is I've been playing Raiden all my life. I know where all the enemies are by heart, but when it comes to dodging bullets, I'm a no-show. I also have a horrible mentality when it comes to bombs. I either play ultra-conservative and would sooner die than use a bomb, or ultra-loose and use bombs left and right even when there are practically no enemies on the screen. Then I face a big enemy with no bombs and promptly die.

I wish it was a different story with other shmups, but that's not the case. It's actually an accomplishment if I can beat a game in 9 credits. Even with games that I like to play continuously (like Battle Garegga and Armed Police Batrider) I get owned at the word "go". Practice makes perfect? Yeah right...

It's gotten to the point where I'd rather watch superplays than muster the courage of actually playing the games now.

Anyway, had to get that off my chest. *gives you back your 5 minutes*

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:05 pm

use autofire

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:55 pm

I'm not that good either. Though i have 1cc'd shmups before i can't tell you it was really that enjoyable of an experience to force skill on myself that way with certain games. I'll likely never play Einhander again.

Only in certain cases have i really had fun learning how to really get 'good' at a shmup. Strikers II, G-Darius, Gunbird are a few. Most of the time though i just like to play for fun. I still suck at Garegga but i have lots of fun with it just as long as i don't overdo it.

Raiden, though one of my favorite games of all time is not a shooter i would recommend 'trying' to get good at. Just have fun with it. Hell, i've been attempting to gain skill at Viper: Phase 1 for like a year now and haven't gotten past stage 5 without mucking up. I find that i have a similar problem with bomb usage as well.

MTH · Post by **MTH** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:33 pm

Raiden is insanely difficult, and you didn't do rediculously bad either. You got through some pretty tight spots nicely before the first death, and did very well against the boss with the low grade shot, you nearly got him with no death & bomb.

On a sidenote, how does one make movies like this one from mame? Ah, I feel like some Raiden now

atro_city · Post by **atro_city** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:02 pm

Just have fun with it.

That's what I try to do when I play a shmup. However, 3 stages and 5 credits later, it's simply become less fun and more an exercise in bombing, crapping credits, and the occasional futile attempt at dodging bullets for half a second before you die.

You got through some pretty tight spots nicely before the first death

Well, I wouldn't exactly call a few popcorn enemies a tight spot...

On a sidenote, how does one make movies like this one from mame?

Apparently either I'm blind, or there's no easy way to do it. I had to use FRAPS (registered version) to record it, then I had to merge the uncompressed files with VirtualDub and save it (which took 20 minutes), then I switched over to AutoGK and encoded it into a 50 MB file using XviD (which took over 6 hours...).

All for a five minute file.

Edit: Also, for using FRAPS for MAME, set the FPS to 60 and it records very smoothly.

Danny · Post by **Danny** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:23 pm

Use CamStudio for recording in MAME.

Also another tip if you are recording footage using FRAPS make sure you click the tab 'record half size'. Not only does the reduce the size of the file it also requires less processing power thus the framerate will go up. Also try to get the emu playing the game at it's native res' so that it uses up less of the CPU's power.

If you have windows XP with service pack 2 then try using Windows Movie Maker which comes with the service pack update. It compiles files nicely and reduces file size at the same time.

Hope that helps!

atro_city · Post by **atro_city** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:19 pm

I tried using CamStudio, and the file size still blows up like FRAPS, only the vid quality isn't as good.

MTH · Post by **MTH** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:54 pm

atro_city wrote: You got through some pretty tight spots nicely before the first death

Well, I wouldn't exactly call a few popcorn enemies a tight spot...

What I meant wasn't the part of the level, but the situation - there was one situation with a lot of bullets and enemies very close to you were you got out unharmed. I use to panic in situations like that and either bomb or mess up the controls and die.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:16 pm

MAME's input file function = good

Also MNG is supposed to be pretty great, although I don't know if they've fixed it yet.

Anyhow, onto the file - that's better than I've managed so far; I'll have to remember how to beat the bosses. I seriously haven't even done that well (though I've only played it since a few months ago).

atro_city · Post by **atro_city** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:21 pm

What I meant wasn't the part of the level, but the situation - there was one situation with a lot of bullets and enemies very close to you were you got out unharmed. I use to panic in situations like that and either bomb or mess up the controls and die.

I guess that's because I've played Raiden for 10+ years now and have pretty much memorized which movements are safe on the first level and which aren't (although that doesn't protect me from stupid things like backing up into a bullet...).

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:55 am

atro_city, I've seen worst. MUCH worst.

thesuperkillerxxx · Post by **thesuperkillerxxx** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:31 am

Oh no!!!

the bulldog (pointblank) is your friend. with your obvious knowledge of enemy placement, you should be tearing it up.

example 1:

green bomber jets at beginning of the stage shouldn't get to fire at you AT ALL.

Example 2:

first boss enemy should be dying before the tank atthe bottom comes onto to screen. sit directly above the center of the tank and blast on it. it will go down quick.

just get up close to the enemies and tear them up!

PFG 9000 · Post by **PFG 9000** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:11 am

I'm about your same skill level when it comes to Raiden, which is why I don't play shooters for 1ccs much. I just play to have fun. For me, dodging bullets IS fun, even if I can only do it for a stage or two on one credit. There are very few shooters which I've played through to the last stage, yet there are dozens whose first levels I've memorized at one point.

I guess what I'm saying is this: not everybody can be a 1cc shmupper, but that shouldn't stop you from enjoying a good shooter.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:29 am

thesuperkillerxxx wrote:the bulldog (pointblank) is your friend.

bulldog = red item?

My problem is that I went for the laser, thinking it did more damage. Well, it doesn't seem that was the case (it just seems to put out a longer stream at once, meaning slightly more damage because the gaps are less frequent), which reminds me of Twin Cobra...

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:39 am

Yes, the spread gun. Point blank and rapid fired it does insane amounts of damage per second (Due the megaman limited number of bullet effect). Megaman can only have 3 shots on the screen at a time, so if you point blank rapid fire an enemy that doesn't flinch (invuln when hit), it dies fast. Same thing in Raiden.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:13 am

Hmm. I haven't been able to take out any of the green bombers before they get a shot off, and that's going pretty much point-blank and using the regular missile - I should check to see that no shots are escaping around the sides, but I doubt it.

Anyway, yeah, that's a SHMUP tactic I figured out a while ago. Works pretty well in Fire Shark with the fully powered up spread gun (although not due to sprite limiting effects). Sprite limits are the bane of my existance (i.e. gaps in your main cannon's shots in Truxton II), but I deal with it.

So far, I'm doing much better. I have managed to get the bonus fairy (found it myself) and kill the first boss turret, though the second one took me out twice so I quit.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:55 pm

So, what do you want us to say? If you´re frustrated playing Raiden, then you should try some other game for instance. There are games that are as hard as Raiden for sure but a LOT less frustrating. I wouldn´t torture myself with such a grim, punishing game. But if you like it nevertheless, why displaying your self-proclaimed suckage?

I know it´s a matter of taste, but I still wonder why people play a shmup that has so little to offer (besides being a "classic"). For instance, I get my ass handed to me on a golden plate on a regular basis in Dangun Feveron at the moment, but I enjoy every second of it.

And as for Garegga and Batrider, those are very challenging games - can´t say much about Garegga, but Batrider has not only the dodging, but the strategic bombing and occasional suiciding, stage order, extra bosses, rank increase, medal collecting, boss milking.... if you want something Raizing but not too hard, take Bakraid (if you don´t play it for score of course) and try 1cc first Pratice mode, then you can proceed to the harder stages. There is very much you have to keep in mind besides the simple survival in Garegga and Batrider, plus you have to find your best suited ship (or team), which can take a while too.

Bakraid will teach you A LOT about evading aimed shots, and this will help you very much in almost any shmup (including Raiden)- dodging a pattern is one thing, leading aimed fire in the optimal way is a different story.

So either keep practicing or stop playing that game and switch to a different shmup - there are SO many shmups avaiable, and you know you have found YOUR game when even dying all over the place can´t spoil the enjoyment. If I get fits of rage when dying in a shmup, I know that there is something wrong. This has nothing to do with serious or casual playing but with the games nature.

Daigohji · Post by **Daigohji** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:55 pm

I think I see the problem in your style, atro_city. Though you know the enemy placement, you haven't developed the habit of moving perpendicularly to certain enemy types. For example, I see a few occassions where you move directly towards a tank that is already aiming at you. As I'm sure you know, enemies in Raiden have no compunction about point-blanking you, so you need to move at a right angle relative to where the tanks are aiming. Get a feel for when an enemy is about to fire, then try jinking--guiding their aim in one direction, then quickly moving back the opposite way.

Also, prioritise clearing the screen of enemies over collecting power-ups. I noticed you died on stage 2 while looking for an opening to collect a power-up, which led you to overlook a flanking enemy. At the very least, clear the sides of the screen before collecting a power-up so that you don't need to worry about crossfire while you're up in the middle/top of the screen.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:10 pm

$.02

Maybe it's just me, but I think a game like Twin Cobra or Fire Shark teaches aimed shot dodging just as well as anything I've encountered. Raiden has enough going on that you might not notice the shots heading for you; in the beginning stage of TC there's enough tanks (and only tanks or turrets) on screen at times that you can't miss what's happening.

Even in the first stage, Raiden tends to throw helos at you too so you'll be focused on taking those out (what you should do is just get below them while firing, and focus on shots coming from the far reaches of the screen while you take out the smaller swarming ships).

Kaiser · Post by **Kaiser** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:29 pm

Well on normal diffuclty i'm stuck at third boss because he's insane, on very easy difficulty i'm getting to seventh stage well that stage is nuts (Raiden project on PSX)

just practice ^_^ you will get better at that game

thesuperkillerxxx · Post by **thesuperkillerxxx** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:09 pm

I probably should have said pitbull instead of a bulldog, I meant it to mean get in the enemies face and be vicious. it is a term I picked up playing tekken, where you get in their face and don't let them do anything.

Please also note that I am also playing raiden project, and that has autofire enabled. the game simply is not playable to me without it, as I would be in pain banging on that button.

I will try to take some screen caps for you later, I do not work tomorrow.

Dale · Post by **Dale** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:48 pm

Your deaths seemed more like simple mistakes then actually caused by lak of skill, try it again. If you still fail try some shmups with smaller hitboxes those are more fun and less fustrating then the older shmups with larger hiboxes to most people.

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:19 am

Heh, I'm not very good at all either. However, I still have fun with the game, and it's fun even if I play bad.

I do try to make it a rule where I don't die on the first stage.

MTH · Post by **MTH** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:35 pm

I do that in every game... but with Raiden, half the times I don't get past the level 2 boss. I gave up on ever getting better at this game and just play DDP instead

Post by **system11** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:11 pm

thesuperkillerxxx wrote:the game simply is not playable to me without it, as I would be in pain banging on that button.

What manner of feebleness is this?

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:31 pm

FatCobra wrote:Heh, I'm not very good at all either. However, I still have fun with the game, and it's fun even if I play bad.

I do try to make it a rule where I don't die on the first stage.

This is the first goal I set for myself in every shootie I play. I am quite the master of level 1 in most any shootie though level 2(and beyond) is a different story

I'm not the best player myself though I don't let it discourage me. I just keep at it and try to advance further in the game. The more I practice the further I get over time.

As most will say have fun and enjoyment in what you play. Play for your own satisfaction and don't let the achievements of top tier players ever discourage you. Compete with your self rather than others as competing with others will only cause for more displeasure.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:40 pm

bloodflowers wrote:
thesuperkillerxxx wrote:the game simply is not playable to me without it, as I would be in pain banging on that button.
What manner of feebleness is this?

If you can press 12hz constantly in 15 or so minutes I salute you for your hardcoar-ness but most people can get a constant 8-9hz pressing speed tops, which isn't enough for anything past stage 4 in Raiden unless you're using the blue laser which has piss poor coverage.

thesuperkillerxxx · Post by **thesuperkillerxxx** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:19 pm

I broke my scaphoid in four places a few years back and have never properly recovered from that. That is enough justification in my eyes to use autofire to compensate for my "feebleness".

I can't play basketball for shit anymore either. Also explains my general suckage at Mushi.

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:32 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote:$.02

Maybe it's just me, but I think a game like Twin Cobra or Fire Shark teaches aimed shot dodging just as well as anything I've encountered. Raiden has enough going on that you might not notice the shots heading for you; in the beginning stage of TC there's enough tanks (and only tanks or turrets) on screen at times that you can't miss what's happening.

I would agree that Twin Cobra & especially Fire Shark would be good games to primer for Raiden (or Raiden II, for that matter) on. Fire Shark is EXTREMELY well balanced, & Twin Cobra, while hectic, is nowhere near the intensity or insanity that is Raiden. I, also, have been playing Raiden for years, & I'm not much better than you. It's one of those games that takes great patience & practice, & all I can suggest is that you might try one of these other 2 games for a while to get some practice in before going back to Raiden. They will help you become more "fluid" in your movements so you can take on Raiden more easily & feel less beaten down.

rib · Post by **rib** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:19 am

seeing you playing reminds me of playing raiden last time, those fast yellow bullets, some of the most annoying/hard dodgeable/visible bullets i remember in a shmup. one of the main reasons why i stopped playing the game, because after a while all the fun had become pure anger.