Digital Pinball Help and Recommendations

[BulletMagnet]

I know a couple of people here play these sorts of games some, hopefully they'll see this, heh heh.

Anyways, out of the blue, I've picked up a couple of digital pinball games, and wouldn't mind snagging a few more, though before I do I'd like to get some opinions and advice from those here who have played these games and know the genre better than I do.

First of all, as with most genres I'm pretty bad at these games, but want to get better...any general tips? Offhand I'm really awful at bumping/nudging...a lot of the time the ball's already in the outhole before I can even react, and half the time when I do try to nudge it around I end up tilting the machine. Also, depending on the game/table, I find some targets nearly impossible to hit without just getting lucky...any ideas as to what I might be doing wrong?

Second, I'm wondering which digital pinball games come most highly recommended. Here are the ones I have so far, all on the Saturn:

1) Necronomicon: First one I bought, since I'd seen it praised around here. So far it is indeed my favorite: while the selection is limited, "Realms" mode is wasted space and the theme is cheesy, the tables you do get are very well designed, and you feel "cheated" less often than in a lot of other games (in particular I find that balls very rarely go down the out lanes, so if I lose one it's more likely to be my lack of flipper skills rather than a bad bounce). Most targets are not impossible to hit, and the pre-launch bonuses give you some breathing room as well. A nice introduction to the genre.

2) Last Gladiators: By the same company (KaZe) as Necro, and available in the US (thus cheaper), bought it next. One more table than Necro, but the designs aren't quite as good...in some cases balls seem set in a "groove" straight down the middle or to an out lane right after they're launched, before you can even hit them. Some targets are also a royal pain...one particular roadblock for me is the round hole in Dragon Showdown, I just can't hit it reliably. The more "zoomed out" view and more obstructive messages, along with having to sit through an unskippable credit roll after beating your high score, are also mildly annoying, but overall not too bad.

3) True Pinball: Four-table game with cornball titles ("Babewatch," "Law n' Justice"); in terms of looks, it's just as nice as KaZe's stuff, offering a 3D high-res option, and some nice music as well, and generally accurate ball physics. However, a lot of the tables feel "crowded," and unless you hit certain ramps and other targets exactly on target, a lot of balls will roll and ricochet out of play in the blink of an eye. Also, while the tables are more ornate than KaZe's, some of the frou-frou can block your view when playing in "3D" mode: there's an "overhead" view mode which fixes this problem, but the scrolling screen makes it a pain to use. Oh, and it doesn't save high scores.

4) Hyper 3-D Pinball: Released in Europe as "Tilt!" IIRC. A nice selection of six tables, with the night-time color tones and big band soundtrack on "The Gangster" being my favorite in terms of aesthetics. The 3-D view doesn't look as good as in True Pinball (though the "top" view's 2D graphics are actually pretty nice), and the same frou-frou problem exists here (even worse, actually), though you can switch between the two views with the touch of a button, which can come in handy. Spartan frontend and varying table quality design, along with some occasionally baffling ball physics (sometimes the thing speeds up for seemingly no reason) hold it back somewhat, though its good points are tough to ignore.

5) Kyutenkai (aka Fantastic Pinball): Japan-only kooky anime pinball game by Technosoft (yes, that Technosoft). Only one three-tiered table, with lots of weird Japanese stuff going on, from a bunnygirl climbing up a giant snake (har har) to that guy with a bag full of wind that you see show up in games from time to time. Has "mini games" you can activate and enter on certain parts of the table (equally kooky, ranging from scoring soccer goals to trashing a room), similar to Devil's Crush (don't own that one, but tried it some time ago). 3 "characters" to select from at the start of each ball, each of which allows you to activate some sort of special ability once the ball is flying around fast enough. Its silliness alone is enough to catch my attention, but the ball physics are really floaty...also, I get the impression that there's a lot going on that I don't know about. I'm not aware of any rules translation out there...can anyone help?

At this point I'm wondering what to get next, whatever suggestions you have I'll eagerly consider. Offhand, here are a few things I've heard of/am interested in...

Saturn: I know there's a "Pro Pinball" on here (apparently there are a million variations of Pro Pinball on lots of formats, which one is supposed to be "best?"), as well as an "Elemental Pinball" which, I think, only got released in Japan...anyone played them?

PS1: I know there are a bunch of budget pinball titles on here...KISS Pinball, Austin Powers Pinball, Patriotic Pinball, Power Rangers Pinball, etc...are any worth getting, or is even the cheap price tag not incentive enough?

SNES: I remember reading about a handful of pinball games on here way back in the day...I remember "Pinball Dreams" off the top of my head, along with one other, that played on an angled view, I forget its title...I would imagine that high scores aren't saved. Any worth getting, regardless?

PS2: I've heard of "Akira Psychoball," which was supposedly made by KaZe, but don't know much more about it...

Anything else you can think of, I'm all ears. Thanks in advance for your help!

[Icarus]

Metroid Prime Pinball. Yum.

I had a thing for Pinball Dreams/Fantasies on the Amiga a while back. While dated now, they were great fun at the time, and a nice taste of simulated pintables.

Grab PinMAME and similar if you can find them and get them working.

[BulletMagnet]

Metroid Prime Pinball. Yum.

I guess that one's on the GC, or GBA, or some such thing? If I ever get myself any of the more recent Nintendo systems I'll keep it in mind...

I had a thing for Pinball Dreams/Fantasies on the Amiga a while back. While dated now, they were great fun at the time, and a nice taste of simulated pintables.

Wonder if the one on the SNES is the same?

Grab PinMAME and similar if you can find them and get them working.

I've heard of PinMAME, though I haven't gotten around to DLing it yet. IIRC it covers "real" tables translated into digital form, right, as opposed to stuff made exclusively in "traditional" video game format, as described above?

[Vexorg]

I'd definitely look into Visual Pinball, which is a freeware pinball construction kit that hundreds of classic tables have been recreated for (some with the help of PinMAME for emulation, others using just the program itself. I'm not sure where all the stuff is these days, but if you go to http://www.vpforums.com you can find the stuff to get started. There should even be three tables that I did kicking around out there (one is a recreation of the Excalibur table from Epic Pinball, another is a recreation of the 1974 Bally Nip-it table, and the third is a very obscure early flipper game called 10th inning.)

More recently, a program called Future Pinball has shown up as a next generation Visual Pinball, although last time I messed with it it still had a long way to go. You can find it at http://www.futurepinball.com, and most of the tables for this can be found in the forum.

[incognoscente]

Saturn: I know there's a "Pro Pinball" on here (apparently there are a million variations of Pro Pinball on lots of formats, which one is supposed to be "best?")

There are 4 Pro Pinball games:
The Web (Pro Pinball on the Saturn)
Timeshock!
Big Race USA
Fantastic Journey

My favorite by far is Timeshock, though Big Race USA is also good.
I've only played the Pro Pinball games on the PC, so I can't say which format would be best. My suspicion is either the PC or the PS2.

There are demos of each game for the PC, by the way.



As this is a pinball thread, I would be remiss if I did not give an anti-recommendation to Pure Pinball (PC or Xbox).

[Gorecki]

Slam Tilt is my favourite. All four tables are unique and have some great modes. Lovely graphics as well. You can download the full game at Home of the Underdogs.

[CMoon]

When are they gonna make a digital pinball with tate?

[Ceph]

Devil's Crash for PC Engine is a lot of fun (by Compile).

[Icarus]

Metroid Prime Pinball. Yum.

I guess that one's on the GC, or GBA, or some such thing? If I ever get myself any of the more recent Nintendo systems I'll keep it in mind...

Nintendo DS.
Probably the best handheld pinball game ever, and a load of fun to play.

[D]

Devil's Crash for PC Engine is a lot of fun (by Compile).

This also exists for the snes and I think it is called "Devil Crush". There is also a version for the megadrive, but from memory it's not so good. I remember playing a serious snes pinball game which has about the best music you can get out of a snes.
Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cJr505UPoc
The first Jolly Joker table has wack music. But this is that game. There are 3 tables and one of the other 2 tables has a great tune.
Are there no sites which list all pinball games?

[JoshF]

Devil's Crash for PC Engine is a lot of fun (by Compile).

By Naxat Soft actually. There are three games in the series; Alien Crush (PCE), Devil's Crash (PCE/MD), and Jaki Crush (SF).

[D]

Devil's Crash for PC Engine is a lot of fun (by Compile).

By Naxat Soft actually. There are three games in the series; Alien Crush (PCE), Devil's Crash (PCE/MD), and Jaki Crush (SF).

Jacki Crush indeed, oh the memories. Great games series.

[professor ganson]

My favorite pinball games are Kirby's Pinball Land, Devil's Crush, and Alien Crush. Sonic Spinball and Metroid Pinball are worth a spin, but aren't quite in the same league, imo. The Saturn pinball games are nice, but also second-tier, imo.

When are they gonna make a digital pinball with tate?

There is a decent one for PSP-- forget the title atm.

[Ceph]

Devil's Crash for PC Engine is a lot of fun (by Compile).

By Naxat Soft actually.

By Compile, actually. Published by Naxat.

They [Compile] also developed a series of influential pinball games, such as Alien Crush on the NEC TurboGrafx 16 system, and Devil's Crush [aka. Devil's Crash]

[JoshF]

I never knew that. How did you find this out? Now there's virtually no reason to like Naxat.

[Ceph]

I never knew that. How did you find this out? Now there's virtually no reason to like Naxat.

By doing some research. First I, too thought that Naxat made really good games (eg Nexzr), then I discovered that they merely published them. I'm not sure if they actually created any games by themselves.

[JoshF]

Battle Monsters and Planet Joker maybe.

[landshark]

Fantastic Journey for the PC is great.

[BulletMagnet]

I've only played the Pro Pinball games on the PC, so I can't say which format would be best. My suspicion is either the PC or the PS2.

That collection does look tempting, and it's available as an import, which is good for me since I only have a JPS2...wonder if it's hard to find at all...

As this is a pinball thread, I would be remiss if I did not give an anti-recommendation to Pure Pinball (PC or Xbox).

That good, eh?

As for the several recommendations for the "Crash/Crush" games, as I mentioned I tried Devil's Crush briefly way back when, but don't own a PCE so I'll have to hold off on it outside of emulation.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

[professor ganson]

As for the several recommendations for the "Crash/Crush" games, as I mentioned I tried Devil's Crush briefly way back when, but don't own a PCE so I'll have to hold off on it outside of emulation.

Do you have a Genesis? If so, Devil's Crush is much less expensive under the title Dragon's Fury. I play the latter version myself, and love it to death.

[BulletMagnet]

Do you have a Genesis?

Unfortunately no Genesis either. I might pick one up eventually though, and I'll keep that recommendation in mind.

[DJ Incompetent]

I know a couple of people here play these sorts of games some, hopefully they'll see this, heh heh.

Anyways, out of the blue, I've picked up a couple of digital pinball games, and wouldn't mind snagging a few more, though before I do I'd like to get some opinions and advice from those here who have played these games and know the genre better than I do.

First of all, as with most genres I'm pretty bad at these games, but want to get better...any general tips? Offhand I'm really awful at bumping/nudging...a lot of the time the ball's already in the outhole before I can even react, and half the time when I do try to nudge it around I end up tilting the machine. Also, depending on the game/table, I find some targets nearly impossible to hit without just getting lucky...any ideas as to what I might be doing wrong?

If an outlane has two rubber blockers on each side of the entry, I’ll table nudge from outside to use that outside outlane rubber blocker to bounce the ball away from the outlane.
If an outlane only has one rubber divider between inlane and outlane, I’ll table nudge from inside to deflect the ball off the wall and back to the playfield using the rubber divider blocker thing.

When a ball is hanging on a divider between the the outlane and inlane, nudging direction is a coin toss. Normally I’ll try to nudge up first then do a side nudge right after to use the divider to deflect the ball elsewhere. Of course…this..doesn’t always work. If a ball is hanging but leaning toward the inlane, nudge from the inside (if there is analog sensitivity to the nudge button, do it softly). Usually the divider doesn’t have enough power to nudge from outside on a still position to drive the ball out.

Investigate how much power your up-nudge is. Also determine how many up-nudges it takes to tilt. On some games, it’s possible when your ball rolls in the outlane to literally bounce the ball up from underneath the flippers, provide you hold up the inside flipper of the lane you rolled in and bounce the ball to the down flipper on the opposite side.

When you play a table enough to know what actions are going to send the ball straight through the center, learn to hit the correct side nudge button and that same flipper simultaneously get your flipper inside that dead zone gap neither flipper can regularly touch. This requires mad foresight, but some tables can let you nudge the table long before your ball rolls through to change the trajectory of the ball's path to make it reach a flipper instead of dead-center.

..yeah…this needs some pictures.


There are 4-…well…4.5 specific strategies to hitting every target on the table.
1. flipping after the ball rolls through an inlane
2. holding the flipper after the ball rolls through an inlane so it crosses to the other flipper and settles, ready for the next shot.
3. holding the ball with the flipper until a complete stop. Letting go and flipping for your target.
4. Relying off a setup a ramp or target provides when it gives you your ball back
4.5. Mad impulse-shooting the split second the ball bounces straight to your flipper. This...probably is never needed unless you want to hit a Special or that ultimate “need to hit that target one time for every 2,392 minutes you put in the table,” shot


When you take on a table, if it comes with a list of events and requirements you need to beat to get to the final battle/event, play enough to get an idea of what requirement needs your most attention or takes the longest to complete. Dedicate your shots to attacking this objective. Normally you’ll fulfill many of the others accidentally along the way. Don’t be hell-bent on moving the ball to the other flipper if you can only use a certain one to attack your objective, just shoot for that target when your ball happens to land on the required flipper…unless the target is a timed hurry-up in-event thing of course.


I don't really rely on nudging. All tables are digital enough that if you have great timing & control of your ball and not just mashing the flipper button on every instance the ball flies toward the flipper, you'll play a shitload of ball time without being in the danger of a ball rollin' the outside. If ya feel holding the ball for a bunch of your needed shots slows the game pace down too much,....well...trigger a multiball.

During multiballs, hitting a ball into another to knock it out of the path of draining/outlane is more efficient than nudging.

Second, I'm wondering which digital pinball games come most highly recommended.

SNES: Super Pinball: Behind the Mask

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cJr505UPoc
The first Jolly Joker table has wack music. But this is that game. There are 3 tables and one of the other 2 tables has a great tune.
Are there no sites which list all pinball games?

The 3 tables are excellent, but the only difference between them is location of shots. Still, the only full-table view angle in an SNES game and the presentation is excellent.

GB: Kirby's Pinball Land
Only black & White and it puts Alien Crush to shame.

GBA: Pinball of the Dead
...zombies can be worked into anything. Based off HotD 2...like the typing game. Like Super Pinball, few tables, same stuff on all, but different locations. No full-table view though. Multilevel.

DS: Metroid Prime Pinball
Entertaining. Only because it's Metroid though, there should have been more stuff.

PS1: Pro Pinball Series

There are 4 Pro Pinball games:
The Web (Pro Pinball on the Saturn)
Timeshock!
Big Race USA
Fantastic Journey

Yeah I have all 4 on PS1. One of the best things of this series is that every table after the (PS1) Web lets you access the operator's menus. So every stat you'd find on a real machine can be messed with on here. You can even set the tables to different playing conditions like if the game were brand new, worn down, falling apart, etc.

The Web is simply called "Pro Pinball" and has the most generic title art ever. This is one of the simplest tables of the 4 and probably my second favorite...if only 'cause I feel like I"m in multiball most of the time.

Timeshock is the hardest of the 4. One of the very few tables I'm unable to complete without a buy-in. 1 difficult ex-flipper up-top on playfield. Timeshock is the best of the 4...but I may be saying that 'cause it's frekin' hard. My favorite digital pinball game period.

Big Race USA is probably the most full-featured of the 4. I think the widest table too. This thing is filled with shit to do and collect and battle. Very excellent title.

Fantastic Journey. Like The Web with updated features and options. 2nd simplest table only more uneventful than any of the others. Maybe there's some technical genius I'm overlooking. And there's chop slowdown during multiball.


PS2 (PSP) (Euro Wii?): Pinball Hall of Fame: The Gottlieb Collection
A crapload of retro tables. Really really retro. There's some entries from the 90s you may have spotted in real life though. They present so well it almost hinders it because you start to feel like you need to play these in real arcades to get that satisfaction out of it. I haven't played the Akira game though.

Flipnic. This is one of my favorite games because I'm sold on all the fantastic diversions from the typical pinball table rules. Nothing conventional about it. A ton of tables & variations. Pretty to look at too. I'd recommend it much higher if they didn't fuck up the ball physics.

PC: Addiction Pinball (Rally Fever)
I don't even know if this will work on XP. But I picked up a bunch of PC pinball collections called Pinball Madness (1-4) and Addiction is still the best title I've ever played next to the Pro Pinballs. 2 tables. One noname Speed Racer ripoff theme called Rally Fever. The other is a table based off Worms..like...the tank wars gorrilla Worms. I say Rally Fever is best but both are very complete tables.

Devil's Crash for PC Engine is a lot of fun (by Compile).

By Naxat Soft actually.

By Compile, actually. Published by Naxat.

They [Compile] also developed a series of influential pinball games, such as Alien Crush on the NEC TurboGrafx 16 system, and Devil's Crush [aka. Devil's Crash]

lol, so it's true. I wondered when one of the Alien Crush bonus stages had the same spinning skulls from the desert stages and shot-absorbing green squidy things from the eye stages ripped straight from Guardian Legend.

[JoshF]

Super Pinball Behind the Mask used to scare the shit out of me as a kid.

[BulletMagnet]

a lot of stuff

Heh, yep, methinks I've found another pinball player. Thanks for the tips and recommendations.

GB: Kirby's Pinball Land
Only black & White and it puts Alien Crush to shame.

Hmm...I do have a Game Boy Color lying around, though I rarely play it...if I can find this cheap maybe it'd be worth picking up.

PS2 (PSP) (Euro Wii?): Pinball Hall of Fame: The Gottlieb Collection

I've seen this available, though I don't know if it ever got a Japanese release...might have to wait till/if I ever get a US PS2 for this one. Same (probably) goes for Flipnic.

Off to the side, while shlepping around Play-Asia I happened upon something interesting...apparently, aside from the "regular" version of Last Gladiators, there was a "Version 9.7 released. Does anyone a) know the differences between them, and b) whether the Last Gladiators released in the West was the "original" or "9.7" version?

[JoshF]

I've heard they fixed some glitches but I've never experienced any so I couldn't tell you what they were.

[Turrican]

I never knew that. How did you find this out? Now there's virtually no reason to like Naxat.

By doing some research. First I, too thought that Naxat made really good games (eg Nexzr), then I discovered that they merely published them. I'm not sure if they actually created any games by themselves.

It's not by Compile Ceph. It's by Naxat indeed. The Megadrive version is ported by Technosoft.

edit: Naxat has a too long catalogue of titles to believe it was only a publisher back then: http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/company/13001.html

And there are a couple occasions where Naxat published a Compile game, and they're credited (Spriggan).

[JoshF]

Well that list has some mistakes so I wouldn't rely on it too much. Plus, it's GameFaqs.

[Turrican]

Well that list has some mistakes so I wouldn't rely on it too much. Plus, it's GameFaqs.

I'm not relying on it at all - but even with some mistakes, would you imply that all those games are Compile's hidden work?

It's nothing more than speculation, given that Compile was credited when it was necessary.

[Ceph]

The Japanese Wikipedia lists it as one of Compile's games from 1990, too:

1990年

* THE GUARDIAN LEGEND NES (開発のみ) ※ガーディック外伝の北米版
* THE GUARDIAN LEGEND PAL (開発のみ) ※ガーディック外伝の欧州版
* ゼビウス ファードラウト伝説 PCE ナムコ HuCARD (開発のみ)
* レイダック・テーラーメイド FC ブリヂストンサイクル/東京書籍 ROM (開発のみ) ※非売品
* 魔導物語1-2-3 MSX2 コンパイル 3.5-2DD 4枚組 ※付録でカードゲーム
* ゴーストバスターズ MD セガ ROM (開発のみ)
* デビルクラッシュ NAXAT PINBALL PCE ナグザット HuCARD (開発のみ)
* ランダーの冒険 MSX2 コンパイル 3.5-2DD 5枚組 ※付録でNGディスク
* サイバーナイト PCE トンキンハウス HuCARD (開発のみ)
* ガンナック FC トンキンハウス ROM (開発のみ) ※北米版はGUN NACに改変
* 武者アレスタ MD 東亜プラン ROM (開発のみ) ※北米版はMUSHAに改変
* ゴジラくん 怪獣大行進 GB 東宝 ROM (開発のみ)
* コラムス MSX2/MSX2+ 日本テレネット 3.5-2DD (開発のみ)
* コラムス FM-TOWNS 日本テレネット 3.5-2HD (開発のみ)

Of course they may be wrong, as well. All hail gamefaqs!

[JoshF]

How about this: Take a look at the Alien Crush/Devil Crush credits and see if any other those names are also in a Compile games credits.