Why is coin-dumping sinful?

[Arvandor]

I'd never questioned this, since it's the first thing preached out to any newcomers, but I've always wondered WHY everyone has this zealous abhoration(yay making words up) for coin dumping.

Just curious... Don't get TOO violent in your responses if possible.

[Damocles]

General consensus is that it stunts learning...not to mention that it stops scores from being used in high-score tables.

[Arvandor]

Hmmm... I can agree with the learning stunting to a point, but at certain points I honestly think it's heplful rather than detrimental. Like, if you've never played Mars Matrix for example, but have access to freeplay (someone elses save or something) coin dumping will totally screw with your learning curve. However, once you get stages 1 through 5 down fairly well, coin dumping (well... 2-3 continues is hardly "dumping" right?) is the best way to get practice in on all the forms of the final boss and stage 6 in general. Especially since the hardest is the Guardian at the beginning of the end boss fights.

The second one depends on the game. Many games let you put in your score before it starts the continue countdown, and at least one (ESPGALUDA) will let you input your initials at the end of your run. Like, if you lose your last life at the beginning of 5-1, and continue through the rest of the game, when you're done, you'll input your initials and have the score from where you died at the end of 5-1.

[Twiddle]

The point is to learn how to beat or play games stretching out your limited supplies (lives, bombs). Credit feeding removes the limit and as a result you end up being more relaxed and less efficient in your play.

[shinsage]

Credit feeding doesn't bother me one bit. If I'm having fun with the game, then that's my prerogative.

Trying to master the game and using as few supplies as possible definitely gives the player a greater sense of satisfaction and achievement, but honestly I just don't have enough time nowadays to learn every intricacy of a shooter just to 1CC it.

[Eric Manch]

Play the game however you want.

No one here worth taking seriously will ever look down upon you if you like to use continues, or if you're not interested in beating games in one credit. Truth is, one-credit shmupping requires a lot of time, patience, and dedication, and not everyone has those three things in abundance (especially the first). It's also very stressful.

It's also a very rewarding way to play. There are few things more rewarding in gaming than the feeling you get after beating a game in one credit. It also extends a game's value; one-crediting a modern shmup can take anywhere from 30 to 100 hours or more. And of course, 1-credit play is a necessity when playing for score, for obvious reasons.

I think you'll find that most people use continues (or "coin dump" -- I must admit this is the first time I've ever heard this term) to see a game through the first time, then try to one-credit the game afterwards.

Just remember that this board, and this site, is about ENJOYING shmups. How you choose to enjoy them is up to you.

[Arvandor]

text

Oh, I know all this full well ^_^ I've actually managed to 1cc Ikaruga and Mars Matrix, though those are my only two thus far. I do continue, sometimes. Usually if I have a really good run, when I finally die off I'll continue and just mess around with the later and more difficult stages to relax a bit after the nerve wracking of trying to survive as long as possible ^_^ Also, in Ikaruga and Mars Matrix, once I had all but the last chapters down pat, I started continuing just to get the last stage down ^_^ Well, I used a lot of practice mode in Ikaruga, and WOULD have in Mars Matrix, but didn't want to start with level 1 weaponry on stage 6, and didn't think of using Elite Mode to set my weapon level =/ Not that it mattered in the end >=)

I didn't make this thread to justify when I use continues, I was really just curious as to the "why" behind the rule. Now I know, even if it doesn't make complete sense to me. I mean, I can easily understand why many don't like to continue, but why they preach it wholeheartedly to people new to the genre, that's the part I don't really understand.

[Ed Oscuro]

I have fun (and learn enough patience) even while restarting most games whenever I get hit (the problem for me playing this way, of course, is in passing the opening stages of a game and not getting bored with replaying parts, which is another challenge). Only a year ago shooters did not strike me as much fun, partly because I would just credit feed and quit once I felt there wasn't anything to see. If you're just feeding you don't get any rush of achievement. It's like running a marathon using a moped, and just like running, certain glands won't have any reason to thank you for feeding since you aren't accomplishing anything.

At least that's the way it works with me - if you still get fun out of racing with the moped, go for it. I find I learn the course better when I run through it multiple times, and savor the chance to notice the additional details (or trigger events that didn't show up the first time).

No comment on why people would rather talk about a negative topic than their favorite SHMUP features (but I'm doing it too, I suppose).

[Arvandor]

Haha, I do that sometimes ^_^ Heck, in Ikaruga, when I was particularly frustrated with the game, sometimes I'd restart if I screwed up my chain on chapter 1 (even though I didn't care about score, for some reason I just felt the need to perfect the first chapter). If I die on the first or second stage of a game I'm fairly decent at, I'll restart. If I have to do this once or twice in two or three runs, then it's clearly an "off" day, and I usually pop in a non-shooter for a while or read a book or something.

[Rob]

No one here worth taking seriously will ever look down upon you if you like to use continues,

Yes, just remember the most fanatical person about using 1 credit only was R3cap.

[Ed Oscuro]

If I have to do this once or twice in two or three runs, then it's clearly an "off" day, and I usually pop in a non-shooter for a while or read a book or something.

Pretty much, but it feels like the gaming equivalent of blue balls to me. Sometimes it's hard to get myself to stop.

[Arvandor]

Haha, I know how that is too ^_^

Just ONE more run through Under Defeat, even if it is an awful run, then I'll pop in Fur Fighters.

5 awful runs later.

!@#^#$!&!#$% you !#$^!#^ game I'm gonna !#^!#$. Alright, screw you, I'm going to play Fur Fighters.

5 awful runs, and A DECENT RUN GASP later.

Finally... Take THAT. Yeah... I sure... Fine, no more kidding myself. Fur Fighters ain't happenin' today.

I've actually had "urges" strike right in the middle of something. I'm sitting there playing Zelda:Twilight Princess for example, right smack in the middle of a dungeon, and suddenly it hits me. I save, go into my room (Wii is in main room), and whip out Dodonpachi or Radiant or something.

[Ganelon]

The only thing annoying to most people about credit spamming is when these players complain that the game is too short and easy.

Too bad more games don't utilize lengthy checkpoints (like only at the beginning of the stage) and limit the number of continues you can use with no possibility of incresing it. That way, people who don't bother to learn the game aren't rewarded with seeing more of it.

Have fun however you want. However, from personal experience (both myself and friends), it seems people generally devalue and quickly grow weary of games that they credit spam their way through.

[Ed Oscuro]

The only thing annoying to most people about credit spamming is when these players complain that the game is too short and easy.

Been too busy playing to read those sorts of topic. Even if I did, it's not like it'd be a major hardship to ignore it, really...

[Arvandor]

The majority of people who give good shmups bad reviews usually whine about two things: difficulty (either too easy due to credit dumping, or too hard because they realize they're not supposed to, or notice how much they're dying) and how short they are (average shmup ~30 minutes).

Those are the two most common retard complaints I see. Who knows though... Perhaps to the average gamer who isn't into shmups, these are valid arguments as to why they're not more widely liked? I dunno... I certainly can't relate.

[PPA]

using continues is bad

you cant learn to be better using continues

[Arvandor]

I seemed to manage it somehow ^_^

Granted, I used them only sometimes, and only for the last chapter of the game, but still. I used continues and learned to get better.

[sjewkestheloon]

Your version of credit use differs to credit feeding though as far as i can tell. Credit feeding as i understand it is indescriminately using credits from the word go to 'clear' the game, and then usually put it away. Credit use is intelligently using a few credtis past your one credit run to learn a few patterns for next time, or to try out a few tricks, aiding your eventual 1cc. When i was trying to 1cc Gunbird i would regularly one cred until the penultimate stage and die so i would then crank through a few creds to learn that stage a little better.

As for the bomb distribution etc, anyone intelligent enough to realise this as an issue can comprehend the consequences of using bombs indiscriminately and the fact that it will rarely help to learn a game.

If you want to credit feed though, go for it. Who cares? You won't have a score to post or a progress report to tally, things i like about shmups, but if you like it then fine.

[Ed Oscuro]

using continues is bad

you cant learn to be better using continues

It's better than playing the first level of a game over and over, and going insane as a result. Judicious use of continues...I bet most all skilled players will do it at times when learning a game.

[Bloodreign]

I've weaned myself on some games not to credit feed, it's either learn or never get better at a certain game for me (doesn't help the reflexes have slowed somewhat), but if a game strikes me as fun, and I want to see everything then I credit feed, that is unless that game happens to be Gradius 3 arcade. That game is either learn it in 1 credit, or get taken behind the woodshed.

All in all it's hard for me not to credit feed sometimes, but I'm gradually letting go of that trend, the game has to have a pretty boring first stage for me not to want to replay it.

[Mahz]

I usually stick to the 'NeoGeo AES rule': 4 credits when learning a game. Otherwise, at least in my case, learning the game almost feels like a chore, besides, unless you've reached stage 2 or 3 or so 1 credit doesn't teach you that much. I like to take in more gameplay in the learning stage, then cut down to strictly 1 credit once I feel confident enough.

[BulletMagnet]

As long as you don't claim to have "beaten" or "finished" a game when you've credit-fed it, I don't see what the problem is.

[FRO]

Play the game however you want.

No one here worth taking seriously will ever look down upon you if you like to use continues, or if you're not interested in beating games in one credit. Truth is, one-credit shmupping requires a lot of time, patience, and dedication, and not everyone has those three things in abundance (especially the first). It's also very stressful.

It's also a very rewarding way to play. There are few things more rewarding in gaming than the feeling you get after beating a game in one credit. It also extends a game's value; one-crediting a modern shmup can take anywhere from 30 to 100 hours or more. And of course, 1-credit play is a necessity when playing for score, for obvious reasons.

I think you'll find that most people use continues (or "coin dump" -- I must admit this is the first time I've ever heard this term) to see a game through the first time, then try to one-credit the game afterwards.

Just remember that this board, and this site, is about ENJOYING shmups. How you choose to enjoy them is up to you.

Very well put. I would agree that going for the 1CC is definitely when you feel the accomplishment of completing a hard shmup. However, there are those 3rd & 4th rate shooters that you just can't see dedicating the time to beat properly w/ a 1CC in MAME or some other way, so you coin-dump/credit-feed just to get through it so you can say you've seen the whole game & can make a final judgment on whether it's any good or not. In any event, I think that coin-dumping (I myself had not heard that term before either) is a valid choice, & one that I often employ for the learning process. I've coin dumped more recently in R-Type Final just so I could see the later levels & get a feel for bosses & enemy placement later on so I'm more prepared when I try for a 1CC. I've also used it in Gradius V to keep practicing a stage I'm having difficulty on (like Stage 3) so I can actually get through it later on when I am more able to advance to the higher levels.

In any event, while the 1CC is the "Holy Grail" of gaming, I think credit-feeding is just fine for practicing or playing for fun.

[al138]

As long as you don't claim to have "beaten" or "finished" a game when you've credit-fed it, I don't see what the problem is.

Exactly! And as long as your play style brings you personal satisfaction, that's all that matters. The relevance of "quarter/credit dumping" has no meaning in the real world beyond your front door, an arcade entrance, or this forum.

With that said, I must admit that I prefer single credit play--but I readily switch and use continues on parts of games that give me trouble. I pay attention to what the game throws at me, formulate strategies, and then try them out on my next single credit attempt. Flexibility helps me to have fun while I play, and it serves to keep my interest in a title longer. I'm sure I'm not alone in that respect.

I only take pride in my single credit scores (as sad as they may be ), but if credit dumping on previous attempts helps me to learn the game well enough to get that single credit high score, then so be it.

[dave4shmups]

Credit feeding doesn't bother me one bit. If I'm having fun with the game, then that's my prerogative.

Trying to master the game and using as few supplies as possible definitely gives the player a greater sense of satisfaction and achievement, but honestly I just don't have enough time nowadays to learn every intricacy of a shooter just to 1CC it.

I would definately agree, and ad that credit-feeding through a shmup at least once gives one a good idea of each stage layout. I own Gradius V, and I'm not trying to 1cc the game on the default difficulty level; I'm going to practice on easier difficulty levels and work my way up. And if I never 1cc it, so what? I can still have fun playing it. As shinsage said, that's my perogative.

[Rob]

As long as you don't claim to have "beaten" or "finished" a game when you've credit-fed it, I don't see what the problem is.

Beaten is the comical version of a normal player's 1cc. It means finished at any difficulty with any number of continues. Please add it to the glossary.

[CMoon]

It has more to do with the fact that just plugging in endless continues really takes the fun out of a game.

Even getting a little farther than you did last time on one continue feels like a real accomplishment and makes gaming rewarding. So many people don't like shmups because they credit feed.

[Dave_K.]

So many people don't like shmups because they credit feed.

You mean so many people don't understand shmups because they credit feed.

[Icarus]

Credit Feeding - making a nice bowl of noodles for your credit(s). They are allergic to 1CCs, however, so make sure there isn't any in the dish. Free Play comes as standard with this meal.

Credit Dumping - telling your current credit that you want to break off the relationship, and remain friends, because you don't feel that this relationship is going anywhere. Always neglect to mention that you've fallen in love with a more attractive, richer, smarter credit.

...

Just kidding. Credit usage is fine depending on what purpose they serve. I occasionally use an extra one or two if I make a huge mess of a run, to practice a section of the game I usually fail at or to experiment with alternative strategies, just so that the current play isn't a complete waste, but all score runs are done in one credit. Rapidfire creditspamming to see the ending credits and then claiming the game is too easy or crap is pretty much the height of ignorance.

[Klatrymadon]

Too bad more games don't utilize lengthy checkpoints (like only at the beginning of the stage) and limit the number of continues you can use with no possibility of incresing it. That way, people who don't bother to learn the game aren't rewarded with seeing more of it.

Aye, games like Super R-Type had the best of both worlds. You could credit-feed all you wanted, but you were still going to learn those levels inside-out and back-to-front.